BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
Paxing All Over The World
old,not bold
Yessiree indeedy. Mgmt get the unions they deserve. If generations of mgmt have been so poor as not to have good relations with their staff - then the staff will push the pendulum too far to one side., Unfortunately, human nature is then to push the pendulum waaaay past the harmonious mid-point - and all the way to the far side. Thus the sequence starts again. It happened to the coal mine workers (and they had a better case than the cabin crew) and it happened to the print workers.
Just today, I was listening to the story of a man who worked in newspaper and magazine printing in the 1970s. They did no more than four hours work for eight hours pay. One of them was called The Entertainment's Officer, as he organised the card games in the back room. Eventually it was stopped but ONLY after millions of pounds had been wasted and then many people lost their jobs.
I am not saying that those CC that voted to strike are in the same league but they have not recognised that the world is a totally different place than even five years ago. In conversation with the family of this printer today, they said it was incredulous that BA CC could even think of striking when people are being made redundant in the rest of the real world.
old,not bold
Yessiree indeedy. The 'non-exec' club is made up of retired execs that have already stuffed up other companies. If I was a non-exec of BA, I would have spent the last years asking them when and how the mgmt was going to slim down and many other things. Non-execs seem as impervious to the grass roots as the mgmt.
This is a VERY interesting point of view from the CC and it all rings true to me:
BBC News - BA strike blame 'lies with those at the top'
BUT, the CC did not work out that trying to use IA to change the mgmt attitude was NEVER going to work. They have been out PR'd on everything. The company was always in the last phase of it's life but now the CC will get a large chunk of the blame - not the mgmt that have been making mistakes for 20 years (Dirty Tricks blew up in their face 17 years ago and so I suggest 20 years from when they started such stupidity) and BA will not exist in it's present form in five years from now. The board of mgmt (exec and non-execs) are mostly to blame. The rest is just the passage of time and ALL companies must run their course, which is another thing that both mgmt and Unions tend not to understand.
As I have said so many times before but for the record:
It gives me no pleasure to say the above. I have never worked in the airline biz and have been a highly satisfied customer of BA.
Bad industrial relations starts at the top, not at the bottom, with the proviso that unions with a political agenda, such as Unite, can and do deliberately make a deteriorating situation 1,000 times worse.
Just today, I was listening to the story of a man who worked in newspaper and magazine printing in the 1970s. They did no more than four hours work for eight hours pay. One of them was called The Entertainment's Officer, as he organised the card games in the back room. Eventually it was stopped but ONLY after millions of pounds had been wasted and then many people lost their jobs.
I am not saying that those CC that voted to strike are in the same league but they have not recognised that the world is a totally different place than even five years ago. In conversation with the family of this printer today, they said it was incredulous that BA CC could even think of striking when people are being made redundant in the rest of the real world.
old,not bold
The real blame lies fairly and squarely with BA's dreadful, lazy, overpaid, over-manned and incompetent middle and senior management. Time-serving wasters, most of them, up to and including the Executive and non-Executive Directors.
This is a VERY interesting point of view from the CC and it all rings true to me:
BBC News - BA strike blame 'lies with those at the top'
BUT, the CC did not work out that trying to use IA to change the mgmt attitude was NEVER going to work. They have been out PR'd on everything. The company was always in the last phase of it's life but now the CC will get a large chunk of the blame - not the mgmt that have been making mistakes for 20 years (Dirty Tricks blew up in their face 17 years ago and so I suggest 20 years from when they started such stupidity) and BA will not exist in it's present form in five years from now. The board of mgmt (exec and non-execs) are mostly to blame. The rest is just the passage of time and ALL companies must run their course, which is another thing that both mgmt and Unions tend not to understand.
As I have said so many times before but for the record:
It gives me no pleasure to say the above. I have never worked in the airline biz and have been a highly satisfied customer of BA.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh deary deary me
BA 'declares war' on union after talks fail | Business | The Guardian
Bit of a risk BA are taking here, what if the punters actually prefer it
Tonight an extensive strike-breaking plan moved into gear at BA as the airline prepared to move 65% of its passengers over the next three days with a workforce of 1,000 volunteer cabin crew and 22 chartered jets, including three Ryanair planes complete with no-frills flight attendants.
Bit of a risk BA are taking here, what if the punters actually prefer it
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The true cost of the cabin crew strike
“British Airways is facing severe financial trading conditions”; this fact is often stated by BA cabin crew who have voted to strike. However, they are for the most part, totally unable to grasp the true meaning of this state of affairs. In so doing they have acted irresponsibly and risk the very existence of BA. It is no accident that BA cabin crew are the highest paid in Britain, it is a direct result of strong union action. Whilst this situation has long been highly undesirable for the airline, its shareholders and the customers who pay their inflated salaries, it is no longer tenable. BA is fighting for its very survival and the mostly poorly educated cabin crew, are being lead by a politically motivated union inexorably towards the dole queue. Insulated within this privatized state company from the real economy outside, these featherbedded low skilled employees will soon find their true worth in the job market. Many will be forced to take up minimum wage employment; others will never work again, living on state handouts and the remains of their once mighty pension scheme, now reduced to offering legal minimum payouts. All this loss in order to protect the unwarranted low work load, inflated pay and ludicrously titled Cabin Service Directors, who are simply stewards and stewardesses and should rightly be serving meals like the rest of the cabin crew. It is patently clear that the public holds no sympathy for the BA cabin crew and moreover the airline’s customers are now questioning their desperately poor performance when compared to those of BA’s competitors. In contrast to BA’s often-surly cabin crew, Virgin’s staff shine brightly and they work for half the pay.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: brighton
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
interview
Interesting interview with non striker on radio5 y/day
BBC - BBC Radio 5 live Programmes - Victoria Derbyshire, 19/03/2010
BBC - BBC Radio 5 live Programmes - Victoria Derbyshire, 19/03/2010
BA fined for fuel and freight irregularities
I feel folks have short memories when it comes to BA's previous problems. With all the losses that it has occured over the past couple of years what happened when it came to pay the £300m fines for the fuel and freight irregularities back in 2008?
No doubt by trying to claw the money back then the Company would look at terms and conditions for all the staff, not just cabin crew. Or did the Company budget for this and it was all hidden under the carpet?
Perhaps if BA had played fair then they would not be in the mess they are in now!!!
No doubt by trying to claw the money back then the Company would look at terms and conditions for all the staff, not just cabin crew. Or did the Company budget for this and it was all hidden under the carpet?
Perhaps if BA had played fair then they would not be in the mess they are in now!!!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lanzarote/Butuan/Southern Yorkshire
Posts: 388
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
This piece makes interesting reading.......
BBC News - BA strike blame 'lies with those at the top'
How much is true? If it is 100% then I back the crew.
BBC News - BA strike blame 'lies with those at the top'
How much is true? If it is 100% then I back the crew.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: brighton
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
crewmeal
forget the history!!
this is all about the current state of the airline
and fyi all other areas of the business have taken cuts
but not the cabin crew!!!
hence the lack of support for cc from other BA employees
forget the history!!
this is all about the current state of the airline
and fyi all other areas of the business have taken cuts
but not the cabin crew!!!
hence the lack of support for cc from other BA employees
LHR747, your post is devalued by the needless reference to Virgin - a reference to "any other UK carrier" would have been fine.
Otherwise what you say is spot on.
These people and the irresponsible Union that represent them are living in a time warp 30 years behind the rest of their or any other industry.
Time to move on and accept that change happens - and that to have a inferior package might be preferable to having none at all.
Some of you have had it far too good for far too long. You have little public support, and won't win - one would have thought that message had got through by now.
Otherwise what you say is spot on.
These people and the irresponsible Union that represent them are living in a time warp 30 years behind the rest of their or any other industry.
Time to move on and accept that change happens - and that to have a inferior package might be preferable to having none at all.
Some of you have had it far too good for far too long. You have little public support, and won't win - one would have thought that message had got through by now.
Cymmon
"How much is true"?
Well it's a fair representation of the Cabin Crew side of the story and a fair copy of a BASSA press release. However it completely misses inconvenient truths such as the Company's trading position, the fact that the Company have been trying to negotiate with the Cabin Crew Union reps for over a year but couldn't stop the bickering between the Reps themselves ( see the Judge's comments after the last BA vs. BASSA Court case), the fact that other employee groups have seen sense and taking pay cuts and/or modified work practices, the fact that it's the Union, not BA who are suggesting Cabin Crew take a pay cut, and the allegations that UNITE deliberately sabotaged a possible settlement last week by pre-emptively, and contrary to an agreement, announcing strike dates.
So all in all a pretty balanced piece of reporting, then again it's the BBC
Well it's a fair representation of the Cabin Crew side of the story and a fair copy of a BASSA press release. However it completely misses inconvenient truths such as the Company's trading position, the fact that the Company have been trying to negotiate with the Cabin Crew Union reps for over a year but couldn't stop the bickering between the Reps themselves ( see the Judge's comments after the last BA vs. BASSA Court case), the fact that other employee groups have seen sense and taking pay cuts and/or modified work practices, the fact that it's the Union, not BA who are suggesting Cabin Crew take a pay cut, and the allegations that UNITE deliberately sabotaged a possible settlement last week by pre-emptively, and contrary to an agreement, announcing strike dates.
So all in all a pretty balanced piece of reporting, then again it's the BBC
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With Labour in cahoots with Unite and the BBC biasing towards Labour (Sun unearths alarming smears against Tories by state-owned BBC | The Sun |News I am rapidly loosing faith in the BBC's reporting.
I have also noticed that they seem to have a personal vendetta against aviation and it would seem from their reporting that the industry is to blame for the worlds ecological issues.
I have also noticed that they seem to have a personal vendetta against aviation and it would seem from their reporting that the industry is to blame for the worlds ecological issues.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Wycombe,
I referred to Virgin Airways because it is universally accepted as the gold standard for cabin service for a UK based airline but as you qite rightly say any airline would suffice for comparison.
I referred to Virgin Airways because it is universally accepted as the gold standard for cabin service for a UK based airline but as you qite rightly say any airline would suffice for comparison.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Europe
Age: 56
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A member of British Airways' cabin crew, who has worked for the airline for more than 30 years, explains the reasons for the walkouts at the airline.
Taking strike action is against the ethics of cabin crew.
But we have families, mortgages and bills to pay - we cannot afford to lose £7,000 a year.
Taking strike action is against the ethics of cabin crew.
But we have families, mortgages and bills to pay - we cannot afford to lose £7,000 a year.
But dont worry because those chaps in UNITE and BASSA wont be in the same queue as you. They will be up there championing themselves for taking such a staunch position!!!!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Amazing being in such dire financial straits, an airline will spend all this money to break the backs of labor..the very backs that bear the brunt of bad management decisions..
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and fyi all other areas of the business have taken cuts
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont understand...
Forgive me if I get this completely wrong, I am new to PPRuNe!!!
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t BA remove an offer from the Union when they officially announced that they would go on strike? Surely from a business point of view, it would have been better to keep the offer on the table in order to avoid a strike full stop. I can’t see how removing the original offer, which the Union was intending on going to their members with, solves the situation of a possible strike. Yes I suppose the airline have been sort of embarrassed that their members were prepared to walk out, so you could say their face was damaged and therefore management now want a cheaper way out, but wouldn’t resolving the situation be better than the continual "talking around a table" scenario. You could say Walsh and the management team are shooting themselves in the foot by almost allowing this to happen, resulting in the airlines own demise!
However, a thought I had was if the airline was to go under, and the government decided not to bail them out, could that give BA more leverage to merge with Iberia and AA before the original planned dates (2012 I think?). If this was an option, is Walsh purposely destroying the airline?
Just a thought....!
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t BA remove an offer from the Union when they officially announced that they would go on strike? Surely from a business point of view, it would have been better to keep the offer on the table in order to avoid a strike full stop. I can’t see how removing the original offer, which the Union was intending on going to their members with, solves the situation of a possible strike. Yes I suppose the airline have been sort of embarrassed that their members were prepared to walk out, so you could say their face was damaged and therefore management now want a cheaper way out, but wouldn’t resolving the situation be better than the continual "talking around a table" scenario. You could say Walsh and the management team are shooting themselves in the foot by almost allowing this to happen, resulting in the airlines own demise!
However, a thought I had was if the airline was to go under, and the government decided not to bail them out, could that give BA more leverage to merge with Iberia and AA before the original planned dates (2012 I think?). If this was an option, is Walsh purposely destroying the airline?
Just a thought....!
Premier
As far as I understand it the deal from BA was basically this - "Here's an offer. We will allow to extend the validity of your strike ballot in order to give you time to consult with all your members. However if you announce strike dates in the meantime, damaging forward bookings and cashflow, the ecomomics will have changed and the offer is removed."
Given it had taken 13 months to get that far I reckon Mr Wlash was being pretty reasonable, so why did UNITE , specifically Len McKlunk, announce the strikes dates? I don't see how any business can work with Union officials who behave like that, and I and others have a theory as to why McKlunk did it, and it has nothing to do with the wellbeing of BA Cabin Crew.......
"Is Walsh purposely destroying the airline?"
I think the shareholders and the long arm of the law would have something to say about that...
Given it had taken 13 months to get that far I reckon Mr Wlash was being pretty reasonable, so why did UNITE , specifically Len McKlunk, announce the strikes dates? I don't see how any business can work with Union officials who behave like that, and I and others have a theory as to why McKlunk did it, and it has nothing to do with the wellbeing of BA Cabin Crew.......
"Is Walsh purposely destroying the airline?"
I think the shareholders and the long arm of the law would have something to say about that...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Back home
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have some sympathy with the Cabin Crew. Lot's of people have made valid points as to why the crew should take the proposed new conditions, however, isn't the fact that we sit here bitching and moaning about the conditions our side of the flight deck door down to years of giving away T&C's as our "leaders" have failed us at the top end of the business.
Employees always suffer when the likes of Walsh and co. screw up, and you never see these cuts returned when the times are better. How he is still there after the T5 farce is beyond me.
I applaud the cabin crew for standing their ground. Good luck
Employees always suffer when the likes of Walsh and co. screw up, and you never see these cuts returned when the times are better. How he is still there after the T5 farce is beyond me.
I applaud the cabin crew for standing their ground. Good luck
What price goodwill and loyality?
BA stand to loose a lot more than cash at this point. Remember Terminal 5? How much did they loose in loyality then?
Reading the posts about the service onboard, BA will loose out because of the standards onboard are being slowly erroded, eg lack of ammenities, choices seat pitch etc. BA are still charging premium prices but what does the passenger now get compared with 5 years ago?
No wonder the likes of EK, SQ, CX, MH, QF, EY, QR are doing better in the Far/Middle East
Reading the posts about the service onboard, BA will loose out because of the standards onboard are being slowly erroded, eg lack of ammenities, choices seat pitch etc. BA are still charging premium prices but what does the passenger now get compared with 5 years ago?
No wonder the likes of EK, SQ, CX, MH, QF, EY, QR are doing better in the Far/Middle East
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belfast
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
£800 allowances for a 4 day trip to Tokyo?
The BBC piece above is completely blown out of the water by its own words.
"£800 for a 4-day trip to Japan "
Two of those spent on the plane and hotel accomodation and transfers provided.
Just by chance I overheard a passenger talking to a Virgin crew member on a recent trip to Japan. They get two nights accomodation and something under £300 for the same trip. He said it was a pretty decent deal.
Of course you could criticise BA Management for paying such ridiculous allowances in the first place.
"£800 for a 4-day trip to Japan "
Two of those spent on the plane and hotel accomodation and transfers provided.
Just by chance I overheard a passenger talking to a Virgin crew member on a recent trip to Japan. They get two nights accomodation and something under £300 for the same trip. He said it was a pretty decent deal.
Of course you could criticise BA Management for paying such ridiculous allowances in the first place.