BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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I'm rather surprised that neither Woodley or Simpson will be attending...and that McCluskey has come out of the woodwork.
Its like watching a game of hot potato.
Everyone seems to be trying to pass off this fiasco to the next guy.
Its like watching a game of hot potato.
Everyone seems to be trying to pass off this fiasco to the next guy.
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A couple of things strike me (excuse the pun) about the Mirror story on VCC pilots and Facebook:
1. As a story it hasn't had legs. A Facebook faux pas story like this is one you would expect to spread like wildfire and be picked up by almost all other national media outlets. Aside from The Evening Standard, I haven't seen it covered in other media outlets. Perhaps because they think it doesn't stand up?
2. Neither Duncan Holley nor Unite have said a word about the story. Given all the vitriol directed at the pilots throughout this dispute you would have thought they would have seized on any failings of the VCC pilots and shouted about it from the rooftops. Why so quiet?
1. As a story it hasn't had legs. A Facebook faux pas story like this is one you would expect to spread like wildfire and be picked up by almost all other national media outlets. Aside from The Evening Standard, I haven't seen it covered in other media outlets. Perhaps because they think it doesn't stand up?
2. Neither Duncan Holley nor Unite have said a word about the story. Given all the vitriol directed at the pilots throughout this dispute you would have thought they would have seized on any failings of the VCC pilots and shouted about it from the rooftops. Why so quiet?
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Yes, LD, it is surprising.
But isn't Mr. Holley in tribunals all day today and therefore not "online?" Thought he said he'd be away from the situation (and Bedfont) today, and someone else would be providing the written update?
We'll see what his stand-in says today.
But isn't Mr. Holley in tribunals all day today and therefore not "online?" Thought he said he'd be away from the situation (and Bedfont) today, and someone else would be providing the written update?
We'll see what his stand-in says today.
With regard to your point 2 LD, I don't see how BASSA could flag this issue up.
If they had made a big fuss over it, they could hardly insist on dropping disciplinary hearings for their own members' "Facebook misdemeanors".
Meanwhile, on the other thread, in his/her typically eloquent fashion, Watersidewonker had promised some further "bad" news in tomorrow's papers. (This post has since been removed).
I know the majority of WWW's ramblings/predictions are shall we say wide of the mark, but it will be interesting if a story does break tomorrow that BASSA knew about today....
If they had made a big fuss over it, they could hardly insist on dropping disciplinary hearings for their own members' "Facebook misdemeanors".
Meanwhile, on the other thread, in his/her typically eloquent fashion, Watersidewonker had promised some further "bad" news in tomorrow's papers. (This post has since been removed).
I know the majority of WWW's ramblings/predictions are shall we say wide of the mark, but it will be interesting if a story does break tomorrow that BASSA knew about today....
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Litebulbs
Let me chuck another idea at you for how WW deals with his ongoing problem.
What is to stop him simply ceasing to act as Unite's unpaid dues collector? From a date, say June 12th, he tells Unite that he won't allow union dues to be deducted from staff pay and paid over to Unite by BA. Not only does he cancel this for cabin crew, he does it for all Unite members at BA. Unite, certainly BASSA, has an immediate cash flow problem.
What he then does is wait for Unite/BASSA to issue another ridiculous strike ballot, and sends them a letter, saying: "we don't recognise you for collective bargaining anymore". Whether he chooses to do that just for CC or for all Unite bargaining agreements depends on just how sick and tired he is of the total embarrassment of a leadership function displayed by Woodley, Simpson & Co. Let's assume he does it just for BASSA.
Now there can be no legal strike because there is no Union to call for it. Put another way, how will Unite prove those voting in any IA ballot are actually members if it cannot show that, at the time of such ballot, they were up to date with their subscriptions? That is a requirement for participation, is it not?
BA can then also force Unite/BASSA to go through the statutory process to prove they have sufficient representation to force recognition on BA (40% isn't it?) going forward. Remember this is a Union which, generally, finds it impossible to run a legal ballot first time round. So, whilst facing a cash flow problem because they now need to get everyone to sign individual direct debit forms, Unite also have to run a recognition ballot. During this period, BA serve notice on all staff, and provide them with revised terms along the lines of the current offer. Except they don't offer anything to up to 2,000 (ie the number covered by BA's current HR1 submission) of the staff they don't want. Every solitary Union rep will, of course, conveniently fall within BA's chosen criteria for redundancy. And all will be out of the door well before Unite manages to organise its recognition ballot. If Unite resist in the CC section, BA simply derecognise Unite in every other department and force them to run expensive recognition ballots, which they are not guaranteed to win, elsewhere in the airline.
Oh, and let's consider this in the context of looming public expenditure cuts. How many members does Unite have in the public sector? How many of their jobs are under threat (my view is that at least 200,000 public sector jobs are going in this Parliament, possibly as many as 500,000)? And what's the financial cost to Unite assuming such persons either leave the Union or at least pay reduced subs whilst unemployed?
The amount of its members' money Unite has managed to p*ss away fighting the BA dispute is breathtaking. I totally agree with Duncan Holley on one thing. This dispute will go down in history: as the one with the highest cost per Union member for the least reward. It will be studied at business school for many many years to come not, unfortunately, for the reasons DH seems to think, however.
What is to stop him simply ceasing to act as Unite's unpaid dues collector? From a date, say June 12th, he tells Unite that he won't allow union dues to be deducted from staff pay and paid over to Unite by BA. Not only does he cancel this for cabin crew, he does it for all Unite members at BA. Unite, certainly BASSA, has an immediate cash flow problem.
What he then does is wait for Unite/BASSA to issue another ridiculous strike ballot, and sends them a letter, saying: "we don't recognise you for collective bargaining anymore". Whether he chooses to do that just for CC or for all Unite bargaining agreements depends on just how sick and tired he is of the total embarrassment of a leadership function displayed by Woodley, Simpson & Co. Let's assume he does it just for BASSA.
Now there can be no legal strike because there is no Union to call for it. Put another way, how will Unite prove those voting in any IA ballot are actually members if it cannot show that, at the time of such ballot, they were up to date with their subscriptions? That is a requirement for participation, is it not?
BA can then also force Unite/BASSA to go through the statutory process to prove they have sufficient representation to force recognition on BA (40% isn't it?) going forward. Remember this is a Union which, generally, finds it impossible to run a legal ballot first time round. So, whilst facing a cash flow problem because they now need to get everyone to sign individual direct debit forms, Unite also have to run a recognition ballot. During this period, BA serve notice on all staff, and provide them with revised terms along the lines of the current offer. Except they don't offer anything to up to 2,000 (ie the number covered by BA's current HR1 submission) of the staff they don't want. Every solitary Union rep will, of course, conveniently fall within BA's chosen criteria for redundancy. And all will be out of the door well before Unite manages to organise its recognition ballot. If Unite resist in the CC section, BA simply derecognise Unite in every other department and force them to run expensive recognition ballots, which they are not guaranteed to win, elsewhere in the airline.
Oh, and let's consider this in the context of looming public expenditure cuts. How many members does Unite have in the public sector? How many of their jobs are under threat (my view is that at least 200,000 public sector jobs are going in this Parliament, possibly as many as 500,000)? And what's the financial cost to Unite assuming such persons either leave the Union or at least pay reduced subs whilst unemployed?
The amount of its members' money Unite has managed to p*ss away fighting the BA dispute is breathtaking. I totally agree with Duncan Holley on one thing. This dispute will go down in history: as the one with the highest cost per Union member for the least reward. It will be studied at business school for many many years to come not, unfortunately, for the reasons DH seems to think, however.
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So apparently Mr. Holley will not be continuing in the employment of BA.
When are the next rep elections for BASSA? I'm told that he can serve in his current position with the union, not being an employee of BA any longer, until the next elections at which time he cannot stand to be re-elected.
So, how much longer does Mr. Holley have in his current union position?
When are the next rep elections for BASSA? I'm told that he can serve in his current position with the union, not being an employee of BA any longer, until the next elections at which time he cannot stand to be re-elected.
So, how much longer does Mr. Holley have in his current union position?
I don't think BA are definately rid of DH's valuable contributions (20 hours in 2 years wasn't it?) just yet.
As I understand it, today's tribunal was an attempt by DH to be reinstated pending a full tribunal hearing. It was held by the tribunal that he has little chance of sucess in a forthcoming full tribunal, so DH's application was refused.
Of course, a sensible chap would accept the judge's view of the likely sucess of further action and abandon it at this point. I rather suspect DH will continue his action though. In which case, BA still have 1 further hearing until they are definately shot of him.
Personally, I wonder why all these moderate members of BASSA we keep hearing about don't call an EGM and attempt to vote him out.
As I understand it, today's tribunal was an attempt by DH to be reinstated pending a full tribunal hearing. It was held by the tribunal that he has little chance of sucess in a forthcoming full tribunal, so DH's application was refused.
Of course, a sensible chap would accept the judge's view of the likely sucess of further action and abandon it at this point. I rather suspect DH will continue his action though. In which case, BA still have 1 further hearing until they are definately shot of him.
Personally, I wonder why all these moderate members of BASSA we keep hearing about don't call an EGM and attempt to vote him out.
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Interesting post.
Mr Walsh can do what he wants, whenever he wants. He might have to pay a sizeable amount of money for the actions however.
I will do some reading on checkoff and get back to you.
Mr Walsh can do what he wants, whenever he wants. He might have to pay a sizeable amount of money for the actions however.
I will do some reading on checkoff and get back to you.
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Is anyone surprised?
Gosh, BA are such bullies, expecting me to show up for work and such. Good luck with that argument Duncan, and can't wait for your next foodie report from Strike H.Q. 
Duncan Holley's application to Watford Employment Tribunal for reinstatement was dismissed today. Holley had applied to be reinstated pending a full hearing of his unfair dismissal claim against BA claiming that the sole or principal reason for his dismissal was his trade union membership and activities. He asked the Tribunal to order the continuation of his employment pending a full hearing of his case. BA claimed that the reason for the dismissal was Holley's refusal to go to work when rostered on a number of times in December.
Judge Ryan denied the request saying he felt it was more likely than not that BA would demonstrate at trial that Mr Holley's dismissal was because of his refusal to come to work to perform his rostered duties and his refusal to attend meetings with his manager. Amongst other things he said "The claimant is simply not entitled to take into his own hands the decision whether to work or not".
Judge Ryan denied the request saying he felt it was more likely than not that BA would demonstrate at trial that Mr Holley's dismissal was because of his refusal to come to work to perform his rostered duties and his refusal to attend meetings with his manager. Amongst other things he said "The claimant is simply not entitled to take into his own hands the decision whether to work or not".
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Cannot get enough foodie reports, Diplome. Second helping, please?
And in future, this has opened a whole new area of entertainment. In days of yore, settled into 11A Club World, as we arose from the runway, used to be on page 3 of the Daily Wail, stuck into it until the coast (or the first drinks service, whichever came first).
Now? I'll be craning my neck out the window to see how many chips Mr. H has on his plate!
Woohoo!
And in future, this has opened a whole new area of entertainment. In days of yore, settled into 11A Club World, as we arose from the runway, used to be on page 3 of the Daily Wail, stuck into it until the coast (or the first drinks service, whichever came first).
Now? I'll be craning my neck out the window to see how many chips Mr. H has on his plate!
Woohoo!
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Glad you liked it!
Being an IR consultant in "real life" I don't take IR lightly.
Sorry if it seems so. But when the world is laughing at you, you've lost the battle (and credibility). And people tend to laugh at absurdists.
Will we ever fly over Bedfont again without thinking about those darned chips? NO! :-)))
My game plan? Can the champers. I envison an entire Club World cabin banging their fists on the folding trays, chanting in unison, "Pimms samosas! Pimms samosas! Pimms samosas! Pimms samosas!" until we are fulfilled. Riots might ensue.
(Well it's only 20:42 where I am so...)
Sweet dreams GMT-ers. Stay tuned for tomorrow's "installment." Argh.
p.s. FREE breakfast at 10 from Mr. Holley?? Great idea. Though "breakfast at 10" costs those of us in real life over 3000 pounds in Club World. And striking cabin crew are getting it for free? Shows the ruddy pecking order premium pax are in these days!
Being an IR consultant in "real life" I don't take IR lightly.
Sorry if it seems so. But when the world is laughing at you, you've lost the battle (and credibility). And people tend to laugh at absurdists.
Will we ever fly over Bedfont again without thinking about those darned chips? NO! :-)))
My game plan? Can the champers. I envison an entire Club World cabin banging their fists on the folding trays, chanting in unison, "Pimms samosas! Pimms samosas! Pimms samosas! Pimms samosas!" until we are fulfilled. Riots might ensue.
(Well it's only 20:42 where I am so...)
Sweet dreams GMT-ers. Stay tuned for tomorrow's "installment." Argh.
p.s. FREE breakfast at 10 from Mr. Holley?? Great idea. Though "breakfast at 10" costs those of us in real life over 3000 pounds in Club World. And striking cabin crew are getting it for free? Shows the ruddy pecking order premium pax are in these days!
Last edited by baggersup; 9th Jun 2010 at 00:58.
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Mariner9 said
Meanwhile, on the other thread, in his/her typically eloquent fashion, Watersidewonker had promised some further "bad" news in tomorrow's papers. (This post has since been removed).
I wonder if Duncan Holley's application for reinstatement being dismissed today caused the post retraction ?
Meanwhile, on the other thread, in his/her typically eloquent fashion, Watersidewonker had promised some further "bad" news in tomorrow's papers. (This post has since been removed).
I wonder if Duncan Holley's application for reinstatement being dismissed today caused the post retraction ?
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British Airways crew death blaze: Exhausted pair broke Thai hotel rules to light candle in hotel room - Exclusive - mirror.co.uk
this might be the story he was talking about.
Strangely no mention of it anywhere else, and even if it did happen i can't see why the crew would be any more tired because they were working during the strike?
this might be the story he was talking about.
Strangely no mention of it anywhere else, and even if it did happen i can't see why the crew would be any more tired because they were working during the strike?
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Johno..perhaps because its not a story.
The Mirror seems to be scraping the bottom of the barrel in an effort to find something, anything, to counteract the negativity of the striking cabin crew.
By the way, did any MP's rise up and forcefully defend the militant crew yesterday? Any cries from Labour of "United We Stand" or was it more of "Gee Whiz guys, can't you all just get along?"?
The Mirror seems to be scraping the bottom of the barrel in an effort to find something, anything, to counteract the negativity of the striking cabin crew.
By the way, did any MP's rise up and forcefully defend the militant crew yesterday? Any cries from Labour of "United We Stand" or was it more of "Gee Whiz guys, can't you all just get along?"?
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...and the latest missive from BASSA
Day 21 comes to a close.
Jun 8th, 2010 by admin
You could sense a feeling of sadness beginning to descend on Bedfont today, almost like the last day before leaving school.
You could tell that people were beginning to be “nostalgic for the summer of Bedfont”; the spirit of friendship and kindness will be hard to leave behind.
Tomorrow is our last day of this particular dispute; we need to make it not only a good one, but also a big one.
Two significant press events today - the blatant hypocrisy and dual standards of the treatment of our cabin crew could not have been more apparent, when the Daily Mirror carried a report on page 18 entitled “Scabbin’ Crew”, where the much vaunted “volunteers” appeared to display not only an intense dislike of our customers - bordering on violence - but also of fellow crew and in particular, our gay community; perhaps they simply don’t have the necessary people skills required to be cabin crew after all. What is of as much concern is this pilot has been cleared to fly a 747. Not only would you not want this man to serve you in the cabin but would you trust him on a 747 cockpit? And, worryingly, it now appears there are others with similar views.
Click here to view the Daily Mirror article
The Daily Mail, Walsh’s poodle newspaper, instead preferred to carry its usual anti-cabin crew bombast. It’s fairly obvious to all that a solution needs to be found to this dispute - and soon. So to ensure that that isn’t made any harder than it already is, we won’t stoop to The Mail’s provocative, chest beating propaganda. Instead, we simply hope that a fair solution can be reached, for everybody’s sake.
A crew member striking for the first time today had gone to the trouble of printing her own t-shirt, with these poignant words on it:
“My proud sad day. The day has come to stand up tall, to be one with you.
To fight against the bully known as Willie Walsh.
I will not flounder, I will be strong.
My staff travel does not matter.
I will not hide upon the bus, as I know this is wrong.
Instead I stand with you, so all can see.
I am a XXXX striker and now at last I am proud.”
Says it all really - see you tomorrow at Bedfont? We hope so - it’s your last chance to show the strength of your feeling.
Jun 8th, 2010 by admin
You could sense a feeling of sadness beginning to descend on Bedfont today, almost like the last day before leaving school.
You could tell that people were beginning to be “nostalgic for the summer of Bedfont”; the spirit of friendship and kindness will be hard to leave behind.
Tomorrow is our last day of this particular dispute; we need to make it not only a good one, but also a big one.
Two significant press events today - the blatant hypocrisy and dual standards of the treatment of our cabin crew could not have been more apparent, when the Daily Mirror carried a report on page 18 entitled “Scabbin’ Crew”, where the much vaunted “volunteers” appeared to display not only an intense dislike of our customers - bordering on violence - but also of fellow crew and in particular, our gay community; perhaps they simply don’t have the necessary people skills required to be cabin crew after all. What is of as much concern is this pilot has been cleared to fly a 747. Not only would you not want this man to serve you in the cabin but would you trust him on a 747 cockpit? And, worryingly, it now appears there are others with similar views.
Click here to view the Daily Mirror article
The Daily Mail, Walsh’s poodle newspaper, instead preferred to carry its usual anti-cabin crew bombast. It’s fairly obvious to all that a solution needs to be found to this dispute - and soon. So to ensure that that isn’t made any harder than it already is, we won’t stoop to The Mail’s provocative, chest beating propaganda. Instead, we simply hope that a fair solution can be reached, for everybody’s sake.
A crew member striking for the first time today had gone to the trouble of printing her own t-shirt, with these poignant words on it:
“My proud sad day. The day has come to stand up tall, to be one with you.
To fight against the bully known as Willie Walsh.
I will not flounder, I will be strong.
My staff travel does not matter.
I will not hide upon the bus, as I know this is wrong.
Instead I stand with you, so all can see.
I am a XXXX striker and now at last I am proud.”
Says it all really - see you tomorrow at Bedfont? We hope so - it’s your last chance to show the strength of your feeling.