BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions

[Diplome]

Compare Mr. Walsh's statements to those fed to the minions by BASSA's own Duncan Holley:

DAY 20 - DUNCAN’S REPORT BACK
Jun 7th, 2010 by admin

Anxious to avoid the Bedfont burger blues, I got talked into having lunch at the pub across the road today at the Duke of Wellington where the “chicken tikka” wraps came especially recommended by Chris Harrison. Thinking that was a much healthier option than a greasy burger I went for it but was completely undermined in my healthy intentions when it arrived with the biggest pile of chips I have ever seen. Normally I can resist chips but when they are plonked under my nose my resolve breaks and today was no exception. So I ended up eating three times as much as I would have had I stuck to the burger van. I am now in total disgust with myself.

Bedfont was Bedfont - same old faces but again some new ones to freshen the scenery. Before I forget, some pickets asked me to mention the returning PHL crew (who left on Friday) who stopped off to drop off doughnuts etc - much appreciated and proves the spirit is still out there.

Some of the reps went to meet Derek Simpson today to finalise the letter to BA giving notification of a further intention to ballot along with the reasons. The meeting went well and we are expecting an announcement from Len McLuskey at Bedfont on Wednesday around 1 with fuller details.

I think we have all grown weary of BA claims about how they are successfully operating an almost 100% service, blah blah blah and you are probably equally fed up with Union counter claim but below I reproduce a Unite statement issued to the media this morning -

“Day 20 of the strike, which has alone cost BA £140m.

Unite estimates that, despite BA’s vastly expensive and divisive contingency operation, yet again over 40% of BA’s operation has been hit by the strike. Flights to important destinations in the BA schedule, including JFK and San Francisco, continue to fly but with passenger numbers severely down and some flights half empty.

Unite has also been advised that so empty are BA’s planes, they are now looking for volunteer passengers. This is because, as BA continues to seek volunteer crew to break the strike, it is now encountering applicants with no flight experience at all. Volunteers need to have flown in order to become crew, which is why BA are asking them to fly as passengers.

Some flights take off with strange routes - one weekend flight took off from Gatwick, landed at Heathrow, took off again for Edinburgh and eventually landed in Cardiff. As this is not a BA scheduled route, this can only have been an empty plane or a plane carrying novice crew on their inaugural flight.”

STATEMENT ENDS

So despite what BA claim, things are far from rosy. I know for a fact that the 2 BA planes into Calgary last week had nothing but cargo on board and that scenario is being repeated all around the world. Finally

Louise wrote to Billy Bragg to thank him for pitching up at Bedfont on Saturday and got this reply for those interested -

Louise,

Thanks for your kind words. I have had several emails of thanks from your colleagues - even from some who were off on duty elsewhere. I had a great time at Bedfont and found the whole thing really inspiring. I’m so glad I was able to come along and show my support.

Hope to see you at Tolpuddle

all the best,

Billy

I think Billy’s words just about concludes today’s report back - I am due at Watford at an employment tribunal, which is scheduled to go on all day so chances are I won’t make Bedfont tomorrow - I will get someone else to do a report back in preparation for the big send off on Wednesday. Those of you asking about my case - I have my first appeal with the company on Thursday. Looking forward to a day off on Friday when I can reacquaint myself with my tomatoes and perhaps think about starting a diet. I did only say “think” mind you.

Cheers all and good luck tomorrow all those going to the House of Commons to lobby the MPs.

Rgds Duncan

Chips, rumours, "Oh my Gawd, I'm fired and may have to work for a living!!" and tomatoes.

Certainly someone I wish to be taking 3% of my dues and be speaking for me in the face of my future.

No answers, no direction, no serious signal regarding consequences and costs. Just Chips and tomatoes.

Well done Mr. Holley.

[TrakBall]

Macho Is The Problem

As much as the strikers and their union would like then public to believe that it is a "macho" Willie Walsh that is the problem, it is really the other way around.

The amount of bluster, hate and reprehensible behavior by what is probably a fairly small minority of cabin crew is what is reallly macho. WW has not tried to bully anyone. He did say if you do X, then Y would happen. That is not being a bully. That is communicating the consequences of an action.

Until Unite/BASSA militants and leaders can get past the personalities involved, then there won't be a solution. And time is running out! At some point, BA may be forced to dismiss strikers or issue new and less lucrative contracts to all cabin crew.

The moderators of this thread always remind us to play the ball and not the person. That may be the best advise for BASSA before it is too late.

TB

[Diplome]

The moderators of this thread always remind us to play the ball and not the person. That may be the best advise for BASSA before it is too late.

Well said. The fact that BASSA have turned Mr. Walsh into an almost iconic figure for the U.K. public may be a hint for how well their approach has worked so far

grea8tballsofire (and I know there are a few spelling errors in there):

Thank you. Many individuals before the vote counseled members of BASSA to "keep their powder dry" for real issues that would be coming...but they just couldn't help themselves. They now accelerate the "real issues" (New Fleet) and diminish their status, integrity and influence.

A comedy of errors.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by Diplome

This post reflects a rather naive approach to both employment and contract law.

I am very willing to learn, on both contract and employment law, so please highlight where my understanding is incorrect.

[Entaxei]

TRIDENT ACCIDENT STAINES - 18th June 1972

Re Post 2193 - just to stop another misleading rumour arising to start another thread. - When Papa India, a BEA Trident 1, stalled and went down at Staines, I was working on the hangars in BEA on Trident maintenance, we all at that time felt a deep involvement in the accident.

Here is the official list of five immediate causes of the crash:
(1) Captain Key failed to achieve and maintain adequate speed [ie. there was little or no margin for error - defence in depth]; (2) the droops were retracted some 60 knots too soon; (3) the crew failed to monitor the speed errors and to observe the movement of the droop lever; (4) the crew failed to diagnose the reason for the stick-push warning; (5) the crew cancelled ("dumped") the stall recovery system

The 'droops' are leading edge flaps.
There was no mention of any union activity.
The Captain had a background arterial problem which was not found to have contributed to the accident.
The accident is significant because it forced the introduction of CVRs amongst UK airline operators.

[johnoWhiskyX]

A company can re-organise and as part of that reorganisation make posts redundant removed from the establishment).
All employees are invited to either take VR or apply for one of the establishment posts.
Those unsucessful are then made redundant..ie no postion in the establishment for them.

or

Re-organise and give all employees a new contract. they would have a limited amount of time to sign the contract voulountarily or they would be made redundant and immediately offered employment on the same contract. Employees would then have 90 days to accept this contract or they would have been presumed to have resigned from the establishment.

Thes second option wouldnt solve anything. As signing after being made redundant is signing under duress and could then be appealed, of course the militants would still be around.

or fire those it does not want.
unfair dismissal for sure, but as some one mentioned earlier..if its costing 7 million per day now..and of course not all dismisals are dead cert winners on appeal.

in my opinion firing them would have a huge impact..and not negative. it would send a clear message to customers..we have got rid of the rubbish, whats left is professional and willing to server you and make BA a national carrier to be proud of.

Wont happen though, BA will got a legal route, they have played a very good game and fairly played too, they wont stoop at this point to BASSA levels and risk turning public opinion.

[Mr Optimistic]

Entaxei

That's interesting (beside it being 1972, thought it earlier): thanks - will do a little searching on this.

[citroman]

Entaxei

If my memory serves me right, I'm sure it was in one of the reports that someone had scrawled " Who is going to be God's representative on earth when Captain Keys passes away" on the back of one of the FD seats.

I think it was raised in the context of whether the FO would have opened his mouth if there was a problem.

Apologies if my recollection is faulty, it was some time ago!. I'll look up the info tomorrow.

Citroman

[Litebulbs]

johnoWhiskyX

As I understand it, employees would not be made redundant and then offered a new position on a reduced package. They would have their contract terminated and offered a new one. They would have been dismissed most probably under SOSR, not redundancy.

This may be a naive or insular view to some, but I have yet to be corrected on it.

[GemDeveloper]

The Ultimate Sanction of Dismissal

Several posts have commented on the ultimate sanction of dismissal of the hard line strikers, and that this would be a Public Relations disaster for British Airways, even if re-engagement on new terms was offered concurrently.

Well, I am not so sure. It seems to me that BA, and their Chief Executive, are very well positioned to ride a tide of public opinion that is increasingly turning their way, witness the much more positive articles that appear in the press (and not just the Daily Wail). This tide is being helped along by the somewhat mis-judged efforts by BASSA, for example, the FT advert.

Managing to run an effective service with the non-strikers and the VCCs (all of whom I heartily salute as people who know what they want, and where they are going), only helps BA to sideline the militants. And if the strikes continue into the 'high summer', and give people any inkling that their holiday plans may be affected, then any remaining sympathy for the strikers that has not already evaporated on seeing the Pimms life style at Bedfont will rapidly disappear.

As for negotiating with BASSA... I am reminded of a long-running Labour Union negotiation that I was involved in overseas, many years ago. My summary of the position of the intractable Union: "They have no idea what they want, but they sure as hell know what they don't want" went down rather well with my HR Manager (who was of their nationality), who was trying to find some common ground to bring back to the Management Team.

[ExXB]

Public relations disaster?

IMHO it would be a PR disaster if BA doesn't sack (or otherwise find a way to part company with) these people.

[johnoWhiskyX]

correction

Litebulbs. My mistake, you are correct, just re-read my paperwork concerning our re-organisation.
If first offer of new contract is not signed then i am dismissed and immediately offered the same contract with no break in service. I then have 90 days to sign acceptance ( which can be appealed later).
don't know why offered same contract twice, but legal advice from union is do not sign the first as that is volountarily aggreeing to it, sign the second and it can be appealed as being signed under duress. Don't sign and advice is that whilst i could claim unfair dismissal there are no gaurentees it would be succesful.

[Diplome]

I see where the militant strikers are going to be meeting MPs today.

BBC News - British Airways cabin crew to meet MPs

Given their well publicized behavior I'm not sure how well the whining about BA creating a "climate of fear" will be received.

While dealing with the reality of a horrendous budget, constituents who are budgeting to make ends meet and high unemployment rates it would take a rather foolish MP indeed to come out with strong support for a group of well-paid individuals loathed by the vast majority of the U.K. public.

I expect some rather tepid "Would be best for the country if the parties could get together and resolve their differences" statements and not much more.

[Mariner9]

Unfortunately, by appealing to MPs (or to investors via FT adverts), BASSA/Unite show just how completely out of touch they are with outsiders' views of this dispute. They must believe they will get some sympathy otherwise they would have sensibly kept a low profile.

I hope the MPs tell them a few home truths. Whether BASSA/Unite would take any heed would appear to be doubtful.

[Diplome]

Mariner9:

I agree. If their behavior wasn't so destructive to BA and their co-workers I would almost have sympathy watching this mad scramble to find someone to save them from the consequences of their poor behavior.

But, their behavior has been that bad, their actions towards their professional and responsible Cabin Crew co-workers has been that disgusting...that sympathy went out the window awhile ago.

[Ancient Observer]

Diplome,

I realise that this is an open forum. However, one stands more chance of a reply from BA on here than one does from a letter to BA.
I'm one of those ex-long-standing BA Gold cardholders (earnt before I went in to the Aviation sector), that was promised "Silver for life", in order to keep us loyal to BA. BA's promise meant nothing, as soon as it had to honour its word, (not to me - to someone else, which impacted us all, including me) it simply broke its word. That group have never had a staightforward reply from BA. I don't go on about it on this forum, as I would become as boring as ex-speedbird. (He's been a bit quiet of late, I wonder if NZ has turned off his electrickery?)

On the broader front, I remain interested in BA's vision and action plan from when this BA CC stuff is all over.................. It could re-build itself with some new sort of model, or it could do a Sabena. I wonder which it will be.

[Diplome]

On the broader front, I remain interested in BA's vision and action plan from when this BA CC stuff is all over.................. It could re-build itself with some new sort of model, or it could do a Sabena. I wonder which it will be.

Ancient Observer:

It has certainly been an interesting process to observe. I found Mr. Walsh's deliberate and firm statement of yesterday intruiging. There is obviously a game plan in place and it does not include allowing Unite/BASSA to make the rules.

There's going to be a move made...but what move. No wonder I've never watched soaps when real life is so much more interesting

[pwalhx]

Two observations having flown to Hong Kong and back during the strike last week.

1. The flights were totally full, far from the empty flights trumpetted by the unions.

2. Having paid £4200 for 2 return tickets in WTP after leaving the aircraft on return to Heathrow on Saturday morning both myself and my colleague said in unison (sic) 'never again'

Saddens me to say it but having been overheard saying the latter there were several other passengers agreeing with us. Sorry to say it but better value is on offer elsewhere.

[The SSK]

Doublethink

To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget, whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself -- that was the ultimate subtlety; consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink..

George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

[johnoWhiskyX]

Anyone noticed a slight change in the attitude of pro strikers? Half of the posts seem concilliatory and the other half seem intent on dredging up bad feeling between flight crew/cabin crew and anyone else they can drag into the argument.

Re the facebook pilots comments. Personally im very suspicious, either true, in which case the person made a huge error of judgement and will face the consequences of disciplinary.
or
It's a set up. I'm more inclined to believe a set up.