BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
TURIN, I believe the article you posted was saying that the 2009 bonus would have been paid in "deferred shares" ie shares that Willie would not have access to and could not have sold immediately for cash, although it seems he did not even take those. I agree the article is not very clear and could be misinterpreted.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bonus
This may provide a bit more detail on this subject.
BA chief Willie Walsh to turn down bonus for third year running - Telegraph
Frankly however, his pay, bonus etc is not an issue with regards to this dispute as far as I can see.
BA chief Willie Walsh to turn down bonus for third year running - Telegraph
Frankly however, his pay, bonus etc is not an issue with regards to this dispute as far as I can see.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: brighton
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aah snas
but if you ask the strikers/bassa it is an issue to them
quite rightly i dont know why they keep bringing it up as the dispute is about their pay terms and conditions
but if you saw y/day at bedfont the crew see this as a battle between themselves and WW (the devil,hitler,pants,weewillie etc)
one winner in the battle methinks!!
but if you ask the strikers/bassa it is an issue to them
quite rightly i dont know why they keep bringing it up as the dispute is about their pay terms and conditions
but if you saw y/day at bedfont the crew see this as a battle between themselves and WW (the devil,hitler,pants,weewillie etc)
one winner in the battle methinks!!
Future??
I would like to know how and when BA can/will turn to the future way of employing and motivating their CC.
Clearly, some of the "CSD"s (what a stupid job title) are not doing their job at all. Rather, they are simply doing their best to maximise their income, and the Company and the staff can go hang as far as they are concerned.
Other "CSD"s perform better, for both the company and the CC.
Maybe one way forward would be to pay the CSDs only on the basis of CC and passenger feedback. Only non-striking CC would be able to fill in the confidential feedback on csd forms, (as this is Aviation, the form would be called something silly, like ConFoC), and CC and pax would comment on the CSD performance.
Clearly, some of the "CSD"s (what a stupid job title) are not doing their job at all. Rather, they are simply doing their best to maximise their income, and the Company and the staff can go hang as far as they are concerned.
Other "CSD"s perform better, for both the company and the CC.
Maybe one way forward would be to pay the CSDs only on the basis of CC and passenger feedback. Only non-striking CC would be able to fill in the confidential feedback on csd forms, (as this is Aviation, the form would be called something silly, like ConFoC), and CC and pax would comment on the CSD performance.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I have just spent 5 mins of my life I wont get back reading this: - 'I was a BA cabin crew protestor' - Guardian Weekly
It brings nothing new to the table, but is perhaps an example of what the pickets looked like from within.
I really cant be bothered to read it again but I dont recall the author saying if he/she was actually on strike or not?
It brings nothing new to the table, but is perhaps an example of what the pickets looked like from within.
I really cant be bothered to read it again but I dont recall the author saying if he/she was actually on strike or not?
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: brighton
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tweets
Have been forwarded the following `tweets` from unite
``Where's Willie? Hasn't he heard the phrase 'it's good to talk'?
``Look at the pictures of all the planes parked up... BA says the strike had little effect - who do you believe!?``
both sent this am
``Where's Willie? Hasn't he heard the phrase 'it's good to talk'?
``Look at the pictures of all the planes parked up... BA says the strike had little effect - who do you believe!?``
both sent this am
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.guardianweekly.co.uk/?page=editorial&id=1514&catID=1
Rumour had it that BA were sending a few planes to take off and circle then land to make it look like a normal day; however you only had to go on the British Airways website to see this was not a normal day.
There's a woman on the Sun website holding up a picture of WW as Hitler. When, and I hope it's when she gets dismissed for gross misconduct, do you think maybe she'll understand then? Planet BASSA!
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: England
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
from the end of the Guardian article - "Eventually there will be no work for us and we will earn less. Obviously there will be no more promotion on the existing fleets either.
The current negations are dealing with this and the union has offered cost savings such as pay cuts and proposed that the new contracts fly integrated with us."
As I understand it (from the other thread for crew) the original offer way back in June 09 had no 'new fleet' as such and was presumably integrated - just as the lower rate of pay contracts since 97 or 99 have been integrated? But BASSA turned that down as it had the 'one down' provision we now all know about.
The two most recent offers, now withdrawn, say there will be opportunities for promotion on the existing fleet, but without going into huge detail. They also brought in the average flight pay offer so that it would offset any route changes to new fleet.
Unite's recent offer, turned down by BA, actually agreed that all new crew taken on to negate the 'one down', which has already had the voluntary redundancies/part time to reduce crew numbers, would be to new fleet, and the Unite 'paycut' was repayable in year 3.
Has she seen any of these offers? What info has BASSA put out one wonders.
The current negations are dealing with this and the union has offered cost savings such as pay cuts and proposed that the new contracts fly integrated with us."
As I understand it (from the other thread for crew) the original offer way back in June 09 had no 'new fleet' as such and was presumably integrated - just as the lower rate of pay contracts since 97 or 99 have been integrated? But BASSA turned that down as it had the 'one down' provision we now all know about.
The two most recent offers, now withdrawn, say there will be opportunities for promotion on the existing fleet, but without going into huge detail. They also brought in the average flight pay offer so that it would offset any route changes to new fleet.
Unite's recent offer, turned down by BA, actually agreed that all new crew taken on to negate the 'one down', which has already had the voluntary redundancies/part time to reduce crew numbers, would be to new fleet, and the Unite 'paycut' was repayable in year 3.
Has she seen any of these offers? What info has BASSA put out one wonders.
Last edited by just an observer; 23rd Mar 2010 at 14:47.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's nice to see that being on strike is so much 'fun'.
Last edited by DP.; 23rd Mar 2010 at 15:08.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Future?
I would like to know how and when BA can/will turn to the future way of employing and motivating their CC.
Clearly, some of the "CSD"s (what a stupid job title) are not doing their job at all. Rather, they are simply doing their best to maximise their income, and the Company and the staff can go hang as far as they are concerned.
Other "CSD"s perform better, for both the company and the CC.
Maybe one way forward would be to pay the CSDs only on the basis of CC and passenger feedback. Only non-striking CC would be able to fill in the confidential feedback on csd forms, (as this is Aviation, the form would be called something silly, like ConFoC), and CC and pax would comment on the CSD performance.
Clearly, some of the "CSD"s (what a stupid job title) are not doing their job at all. Rather, they are simply doing their best to maximise their income, and the Company and the staff can go hang as far as they are concerned.
Other "CSD"s perform better, for both the company and the CC.
Maybe one way forward would be to pay the CSDs only on the basis of CC and passenger feedback. Only non-striking CC would be able to fill in the confidential feedback on csd forms, (as this is Aviation, the form would be called something silly, like ConFoC), and CC and pax would comment on the CSD performance.
If I were WW, I would want to distinguish the leaders from the led and deal with them differently. Effectively, separate the wheat from the chaff. In most companies I would expect this sort of 'intelligence' to be held by the managers, but I don't know whether this is true for BA.
What do others think?
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Done Gatwick Based Cabin Crew
Between 1994 and 2001 I had the privilege and honour to manage the Gatwick division of an organisation with operations at most major airports around the UK. Indeed, with only two short intervals, I worked at Gatwick from 1965 (with British United) until 2004. Except for a few notable exceptions, it has been my experience that staff of all organisations working at the "White Elephant" tended to support their employers and give 100% whenever the going got tough. I can say with pride that during my watch as manager colleagues in my business regularly out performed those at most other airports. Therefore, I was gratified and not at all surprised to see that BA's Gatwick based cabin crew continued that tradition over the last weekend with an almost 100% turn out for work.
This magnificent show of support for their employer and customers should be seen against a backdrop where BA's Gatwick based crews already work to revised complimenting arrangements opposed by the Unions for Heathrow crew. Their allowances have been subjected to increased tax payments and the scope and opportunities for trips have been reduced as BA consolidates its London operations by transferring services to Heathrow. Even so, almost to a man/woman, the Gatwick cabin crew answered their employer's request and resisted the Union's demands for strike action.
Of course, I'm unrepentantly biased. However, for what it is worth, I want to say well done to those conscientious and brave cabin crews whose attendance ensured that virtually all BA's services ex Gatwick operated during the industrial action. Well down to the BA management whose activities facilitated the staff’s response. Well done to Gatwick for maintaining its tradition of continuity of service.
This magnificent show of support for their employer and customers should be seen against a backdrop where BA's Gatwick based crews already work to revised complimenting arrangements opposed by the Unions for Heathrow crew. Their allowances have been subjected to increased tax payments and the scope and opportunities for trips have been reduced as BA consolidates its London operations by transferring services to Heathrow. Even so, almost to a man/woman, the Gatwick cabin crew answered their employer's request and resisted the Union's demands for strike action.
Of course, I'm unrepentantly biased. However, for what it is worth, I want to say well done to those conscientious and brave cabin crews whose attendance ensured that virtually all BA's services ex Gatwick operated during the industrial action. Well down to the BA management whose activities facilitated the staff’s response. Well done to Gatwick for maintaining its tradition of continuity of service.
Last edited by ExecClubPax; 23rd Mar 2010 at 15:11. Reason: to clarify a statement
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In two minds
As an ex BA customer I find myself divided over the strike.
On the one hand management / staff relations at BA have reached such an all time low that something has to give - otherwise the Airline will be knackered. Even as a disaffected customer, I would not like to happen.
Unfortunately, its all got a little bit personal and one wonders if big WW were not in the picture whether the leaders at UNITE might not be able to clinch an acceptable compromise?
It would appear that the markets, not unsurprisingly, are wholly behind the management given the obviuos long terms benefits that will flow under a restructured BA. Clearly, the bulls in the city think BA can see out the strike and expect CC to buckle before the Airline. at £7m per day they probably can last a lot longer than their staff and at 65% capacity they are no doubt getting 100% load factors on the routes they can operate. Until bookings start slipping, which will happen once the holiday season begins, BA wil maintain cashflow which will mean thatthey won't be hurting for a while.
I don't like the approach of BA management and feel they are responsible for the creation of a pretty customer unfriendly airline that I will no longer use. I will accept that customer cuddly is not a profitable as the inflexible world of FR, which BA are apparently using as their business exemplar. However, at the same time BA CC have a pretty cushy number when the full salary and benefits package is measured against competitor airlines - or so it would appear to this outsider.
Equally, I cannot support UNITE which appears somewhat inconsistent and naive in their approach. Surely it is completely useless walking out of one set of talks because the offer wasn't acceptable then walking out of the next because BA refused to table the previuos offer. What did they think they were doing? If BA do strip the strikers of their travel perks then that is a win for management. Little by litte they are going to get their way.
Caught in the cossfire are the myriad of CC who are hard working and proud of one great airline. I cannot condemn them for striking - it is their right. Rather than a complete unwillingness to compromise, I suspect the CC stance is as much a reaction to years of abuse from Big WW and his cohorts. I have equal compassion for this on strike and those who can't afford, are too afraid, or don't want to.
Finally, the sooner the strike is over the sooner I will not have to breakfast elbow to elbow with some displaced BA silver card holder stuck inthe middle row on my prefered carrier. Hurry up guys get it sorted!
On the one hand management / staff relations at BA have reached such an all time low that something has to give - otherwise the Airline will be knackered. Even as a disaffected customer, I would not like to happen.
Unfortunately, its all got a little bit personal and one wonders if big WW were not in the picture whether the leaders at UNITE might not be able to clinch an acceptable compromise?
It would appear that the markets, not unsurprisingly, are wholly behind the management given the obviuos long terms benefits that will flow under a restructured BA. Clearly, the bulls in the city think BA can see out the strike and expect CC to buckle before the Airline. at £7m per day they probably can last a lot longer than their staff and at 65% capacity they are no doubt getting 100% load factors on the routes they can operate. Until bookings start slipping, which will happen once the holiday season begins, BA wil maintain cashflow which will mean thatthey won't be hurting for a while.
I don't like the approach of BA management and feel they are responsible for the creation of a pretty customer unfriendly airline that I will no longer use. I will accept that customer cuddly is not a profitable as the inflexible world of FR, which BA are apparently using as their business exemplar. However, at the same time BA CC have a pretty cushy number when the full salary and benefits package is measured against competitor airlines - or so it would appear to this outsider.
Equally, I cannot support UNITE which appears somewhat inconsistent and naive in their approach. Surely it is completely useless walking out of one set of talks because the offer wasn't acceptable then walking out of the next because BA refused to table the previuos offer. What did they think they were doing? If BA do strip the strikers of their travel perks then that is a win for management. Little by litte they are going to get their way.
Caught in the cossfire are the myriad of CC who are hard working and proud of one great airline. I cannot condemn them for striking - it is their right. Rather than a complete unwillingness to compromise, I suspect the CC stance is as much a reaction to years of abuse from Big WW and his cohorts. I have equal compassion for this on strike and those who can't afford, are too afraid, or don't want to.
Finally, the sooner the strike is over the sooner I will not have to breakfast elbow to elbow with some displaced BA silver card holder stuck inthe middle row on my prefered carrier. Hurry up guys get it sorted!
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rather than being in two minds, this is a time for some single mindedness.
The issues at stake in the current round of industrial action at BA is management's right to manage. Over the last year, the company has negotiated with its work force. All but the cabin crew have come to agreements concerning the necessary cost cutting to keep BA solvent. Either by refusing to negotiate or by trying to manage the business itself, the Union side has precipitated a situation which the management of any organisation could never tolerate. What the BA Board has to do now is ensure it and only it manages the business. That way, the employees are more likely to have long term job prospects. Acquiescing to unreasonable demands reinstatement of crew numbers (the Judge in a recent court case ruled BA's reduced cabin crew complimenting was reasonable) would be a disaster and deliver the airline to receivership within short order.
Nevertheless, I too hope for a speedy resolution because as a BA Silver Card holder I have no intention of changing airlines if the national flag carrier operates to destinations I wish to visit.
The issues at stake in the current round of industrial action at BA is management's right to manage. Over the last year, the company has negotiated with its work force. All but the cabin crew have come to agreements concerning the necessary cost cutting to keep BA solvent. Either by refusing to negotiate or by trying to manage the business itself, the Union side has precipitated a situation which the management of any organisation could never tolerate. What the BA Board has to do now is ensure it and only it manages the business. That way, the employees are more likely to have long term job prospects. Acquiescing to unreasonable demands reinstatement of crew numbers (the Judge in a recent court case ruled BA's reduced cabin crew complimenting was reasonable) would be a disaster and deliver the airline to receivership within short order.
Nevertheless, I too hope for a speedy resolution because as a BA Silver Card holder I have no intention of changing airlines if the national flag carrier operates to destinations I wish to visit.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: England
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Janus invests in BA
Note that Janus, a US investment company, now has 5.08% of BA voting rights. See
News Release
News Release
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Outside the EU on a small Island
Age: 79
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by munnyspinner
On the one hand management / staff relations at BA have reached such an all time low that something has to give - otherwise the Airline will be knackered. Even as a disaffected customer, I would not like to happen.
Unfortunately, its all got a little bit personal and one wonders if big WW were not in the picture whether the leaders at UNITE might not be able to clinch an acceptable compromise?
Unfortunately, its all got a little bit personal and one wonders if big WW were not in the picture whether the leaders at UNITE might not be able to clinch an acceptable compromise?
In particular, taking your second paragraph, would UNITE actually offer/agree anything that genuinely allowed BA to return to operating profit? Everything we've seen is basically about retaining the status quo ante for the more highly paid staff - which thus means that the CSD does minimal work, whilst poaching the best trips ... or sits at home long-term sick whilst working full-time for BASSA. None of that will generate the necessary savings, and Unite's best offer is to call for a pay cut which impacts those CC at LGW - who have dared to prove that reduced manning levels are workable.
I don't see the hand of WW in any of those factors. Do you?
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Update from BA crew operating today
Sadly as retired BA cabin crew I am not eligible to post on the specific cabin crew thread, so I tiptoe into this passenger forum to ask if any of you, either as passengers, pilots or cabin crew, have witnessed or experienced any backlash from returning to work strikers today? I would hope not, but given some of the vitriol directed at Mr Walsh and the booing of their own flying aircraft (DUH?) by those at Bedfont on TV yesterday, I do expect some.
Also do we know if those returning today have been spoken to by their Managers at all?
Oldflyboy
by those at Bedfont on TV yesterday, I do expect some.Also do we know if those returning today have been spoken to by their Managers at all?
Oldflyboy
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as I see it, BA appointed WW - an ex pilot and ex union negotiator - to manage the airline. He's managed to make a case to all but the BASSA militants for sensible cost cutting and changes to the pay structure to allow them to compete in future.
BASSA and UNITE's response has been nothing short of slander and libel, a campaign of character assassination that says more about their intellectual limits than it does about Walsh's ability to spot the way forward for British Airways.
If I sound grumpy about the snipes about his "deferred bonus" and the rest of the tirade of nonsense, it's because I happen to think that he's paid well and deserves it, was ethical in turning down a bonus when he's perfectly entitled, and wants the best for all BA employees - but will not suffer the BASSA fools gladly.
As for taking a chill pill - as long as these union retards keep chucking out "Macho", "Machismo" and other highly unsuitable terms, and even have the temerity to equate their overpaid BASSA brown nosers with the murdered monks and ethnic tribes of Burma, or the thousands starving in Zimbabwe because of the actions of a cynical and greedy oligarchy (sound familiar?), then there is no other way of saying it than to affirm that they can kiss my hairy
BASSA and UNITE's response has been nothing short of slander and libel, a campaign of character assassination that says more about their intellectual limits than it does about Walsh's ability to spot the way forward for British Airways.
If I sound grumpy about the snipes about his "deferred bonus" and the rest of the tirade of nonsense, it's because I happen to think that he's paid well and deserves it, was ethical in turning down a bonus when he's perfectly entitled, and wants the best for all BA employees - but will not suffer the BASSA fools gladly.
As for taking a chill pill - as long as these union retards keep chucking out "Macho", "Machismo" and other highly unsuitable terms, and even have the temerity to equate their overpaid BASSA brown nosers with the murdered monks and ethnic tribes of Burma, or the thousands starving in Zimbabwe because of the actions of a cynical and greedy oligarchy (sound familiar?), then there is no other way of saying it than to affirm that they can kiss my hairy
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Outside the EU on a small Island
Age: 79
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the CC Thread ...
Which date, according to my diary, is when Unite was going to call "Strike Three".
Interesting!
Striking crew have just starting receiving ESS messages about staff travel removal, effective 14th April.
Interesting!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WW is a man of his word:
Dear Colleague
I am writing to advise you that our records show that you failed to report for your rostered duty over the strike period of 20 – 22 March, we therefore consider you to have taken part in industrial action. As a result the following consequences will apply.
Loss of Pay
As we have previously explained you will not be paid from the point you started taking industrial action until the date you are either allocated another duty, or you undertake your next rostered duty. As you are in breach of contract over this period we are entitled to deduct pay. This deduction will take place in March’s pay.
Removal of staff travel
We have advised all cabin crew on a number of occasions that if you took part in industrial action, this would result in the permanent withdrawal of your staff travel concessions. These concessions are non contractual and granted, changed or withdrawn at the sole discretion of British Airways.
Therefore, from 14 April 2010, you are not eligible to benefit from any staff travel concessions either in your own right or as a nominee of another serving or former British Airways’ employee.
You may no longer use any type of rebate travel concessions whether on British Airways flights or those of other airlines associated with British Airways for concessionary travel purposes. Concessions include Basic and Premium Standby, Annual Bookable tickets – whether granted for status or length of service. You may, however, continue to benefit from discounted commercial tickets (Hotline).
The decision to withdraw staff travel concessions in these circumstances has not been taken lightly. The industrial action in which you took part has severely impacted upon our operations and customers and we will, undoubtedly, suffer additional costs and further losses as a result.
There is no right of appeal following this decision.
I am writing to advise you that our records show that you failed to report for your rostered duty over the strike period of 20 – 22 March, we therefore consider you to have taken part in industrial action. As a result the following consequences will apply.
Loss of Pay
As we have previously explained you will not be paid from the point you started taking industrial action until the date you are either allocated another duty, or you undertake your next rostered duty. As you are in breach of contract over this period we are entitled to deduct pay. This deduction will take place in March’s pay.
Removal of staff travel
We have advised all cabin crew on a number of occasions that if you took part in industrial action, this would result in the permanent withdrawal of your staff travel concessions. These concessions are non contractual and granted, changed or withdrawn at the sole discretion of British Airways.
Therefore, from 14 April 2010, you are not eligible to benefit from any staff travel concessions either in your own right or as a nominee of another serving or former British Airways’ employee.
You may no longer use any type of rebate travel concessions whether on British Airways flights or those of other airlines associated with British Airways for concessionary travel purposes. Concessions include Basic and Premium Standby, Annual Bookable tickets – whether granted for status or length of service. You may, however, continue to benefit from discounted commercial tickets (Hotline).
The decision to withdraw staff travel concessions in these circumstances has not been taken lightly. The industrial action in which you took part has severely impacted upon our operations and customers and we will, undoubtedly, suffer additional costs and further losses as a result.
There is no right of appeal following this decision.