BA Cabin Crew Strike Threats (Merged)
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The Reagan way
August 3, 1981:
"They are in violation of the law and if they do not report for work within 48 hours they have forfeited their jobs and will be terminated."
August 5, 1981: They were.
"They are in violation of the law and if they do not report for work within 48 hours they have forfeited their jobs and will be terminated."
August 5, 1981: They were.
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Disgusted of Tunbridge
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It will take a few weeks to re-ballot, then if the enthusiasm is still there, they can hold the public to ransom in a trough passenger period in January or February!
But whatever, WW must sort this problem out. The Pension deficit is pressing, the profitability is irretrievably lost, staff costs out of control. The baggage handling should be outsourced to get those nightmares off the payroll, even the LHR crewing could be outsourced. We have unskilled staff paid more than bank managers (if there are any 'bank managers' left!). The union is so backwards facing and stuck in a 70s style Stalinism, and the cabin crew have followed them because they have got their old contract staff double the 'going rate'. BA shares are going to continue to be very unexciting until the company regains a handle on costs. This is seriously a 'last chance' for the board to whip BA into shape for the future. The investors are about to lose patience.
As for the crew obeying the decision, they will. BA can be very heavy on improper absences. If the strike is off, ALL services will be ON! They will not dare malinger!
But whatever, WW must sort this problem out. The Pension deficit is pressing, the profitability is irretrievably lost, staff costs out of control. The baggage handling should be outsourced to get those nightmares off the payroll, even the LHR crewing could be outsourced. We have unskilled staff paid more than bank managers (if there are any 'bank managers' left!). The union is so backwards facing and stuck in a 70s style Stalinism, and the cabin crew have followed them because they have got their old contract staff double the 'going rate'. BA shares are going to continue to be very unexciting until the company regains a handle on costs. This is seriously a 'last chance' for the board to whip BA into shape for the future. The investors are about to lose patience.
As for the crew obeying the decision, they will. BA can be very heavy on improper absences. If the strike is off, ALL services will be ON! They will not dare malinger!
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Jet Set Lady, you wrote
and I apologise for the assumption. And also for grouping you with the bad guys, which clearly you are not.
Dolly Day Dream
Let me explain. People do not, by and large fly because they like flying around. They fly because they need to be somewhere else, quite probably at a given time. That need does not melt away because BA CC, or some of them, decide to support a strike. So many people, especially business travellers, have had to buy alternative travel already because the risk of not being where they want to be when they want to be there is for one reason or another unacceptable.
For some, their tickets allow cancellation, but even so the alternatives are now very expensive. Those with non-refundable tickets who have bought the more expensive alternatives and must now wait and see if they will get a refund. But they are already out-of-pocket.
Re-arranging travel incurs a multitude of other expenses; changed hotel bookings, new transfers, extra nights away etc etc.
If the striking CC don't understand that, it comes as no surprise if they don't understand why people are so angry. We have got away lightly because we acted very fast to re-arrange all our BA bookings from Dec 21st for ever, but even so our additional costs - related only to flights booked within the strike period - are considerable.
Those BA customers who cannot yet get refunds and cannot afford to buy alternative travel unless they get a refund, are in the worst possible position. Not only will they probably not fly at all, if those cheering morons at the Unite meeting are anything to go by, but everything they have spent to prepare for their trip, plus their accommodation, car hire and so on, will probably never be refunded, even if their ticket payment eventually is. A lot of travel insurance policies exclude strike action, and the insurance companies will be rigorously finding ways of avoiding payment because of the huge numbers of claimants involved.
Now do you understand? I hope so.
Edit...just read the bit about how the strike is/may be illegal, so some will/may get to fly BA as planned if they have not rebooked. But the damage is done. I would not want to be working any of those flights; the passengers know that the LHR CC majority are not working from choice, and supported Unite in trying very hard to cause maximum distress, loss and hardship as a weapon to protect their position.
You call me patronising, then make assumptions like the above!
Dolly Day Dream
Can I ask - have BA actually cancelled any flights yet? Just how have people 'lost' thousands of pounds?
For some, their tickets allow cancellation, but even so the alternatives are now very expensive. Those with non-refundable tickets who have bought the more expensive alternatives and must now wait and see if they will get a refund. But they are already out-of-pocket.
Re-arranging travel incurs a multitude of other expenses; changed hotel bookings, new transfers, extra nights away etc etc.
If the striking CC don't understand that, it comes as no surprise if they don't understand why people are so angry. We have got away lightly because we acted very fast to re-arrange all our BA bookings from Dec 21st for ever, but even so our additional costs - related only to flights booked within the strike period - are considerable.
Those BA customers who cannot yet get refunds and cannot afford to buy alternative travel unless they get a refund, are in the worst possible position. Not only will they probably not fly at all, if those cheering morons at the Unite meeting are anything to go by, but everything they have spent to prepare for their trip, plus their accommodation, car hire and so on, will probably never be refunded, even if their ticket payment eventually is. A lot of travel insurance policies exclude strike action, and the insurance companies will be rigorously finding ways of avoiding payment because of the huge numbers of claimants involved.
Now do you understand? I hope so.
Edit...just read the bit about how the strike is/may be illegal, so some will/may get to fly BA as planned if they have not rebooked. But the damage is done. I would not want to be working any of those flights; the passengers know that the LHR CC majority are not working from choice, and supported Unite in trying very hard to cause maximum distress, loss and hardship as a weapon to protect their position.
Last edited by Capot; 17th Dec 2009 at 16:14.
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Small Willy Walsh sips his cognac while the rest of the " experts " here agree what a great day it is for them and the industry. No wonder pilots are paying to fly aeroplanes. No balls.
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Ruling looks a bit odd.
I would be interested to see the official reasons for this ruling. BBC reports it was because they improperly included those already set to leave the company in the ballot. In which case how many of them were there? Lets say that was 10%, then 93.5% in favour still suggests that more than 83.5/90 of the correct audience voted for a strike. With > 90% support I am surprised that the judge granted an injunction.
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Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Sorry, but the pay levels for an essentially 'unskilled' job have gotten seriously out of balance in BA. How can you have 3 weeks training and fall into a job that outpays pilots (on the old contract rate). The CSD, whose job BA has now made 'working' used to hide under the stairs all flight reading books and watching videos! Any wonder that when one went up to the flight deck to have the cabin log signed for 'CSDs office chair cover worn', the pilots burst out laughing! Course it was worn mate! CSD pay is more like triple Virgin chief pay. Old contract main crew rates are double. Ask yourself if this can continue given 14,000 crew?
What is facing the industry is an ordered shutdown of BA- it cannot compete with the opposition with this straightjacket around its neck. For the little that is being asked of the crew, I am amazed that they are taking it to the wall. Utter insanity, but given the stern socialist nature of the union, I smell ulterior political motives somewhere. These unionistas killed off the British shipbuilding industry and car building, and they are intentionally leading the staff down a political as well as economic road. If we let them, they will have the British airline industry too. Settlement is not what the company needs. It is complete termination of the old contract. The new contract cabin crew work hard (and comparably with the opposition). The division is breathtaking.
What is facing the industry is an ordered shutdown of BA- it cannot compete with the opposition with this straightjacket around its neck. For the little that is being asked of the crew, I am amazed that they are taking it to the wall. Utter insanity, but given the stern socialist nature of the union, I smell ulterior political motives somewhere. These unionistas killed off the British shipbuilding industry and car building, and they are intentionally leading the staff down a political as well as economic road. If we let them, they will have the British airline industry too. Settlement is not what the company needs. It is complete termination of the old contract. The new contract cabin crew work hard (and comparably with the opposition). The division is breathtaking.
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Whatever the public rhetoric from BA, the ballot has concentrated minds. Too many people just live on press reports and don't really have any idea of the nuts and bolts of the dispute. (Which is why I won't comment on the reasons).
I think the Union cocked up by announcing 12 continual days of strikes. This is not good for company or union members. Whoever made that decision wants shooting. They should have just started with limited action with room to escalate if required.
That said, I take issue with those who moan about the disruption to the public over Christmas.. When is a good time to take action to protect your terms and conditions? In aviation whatever you do, whenever you do it, unfortunately the public will lose out.
It's about time the boot was firmly placed on the other foot. How wrong it was of BA to cause a situation that resulted in it's employees feeling the need to ballot.
It looks as if BA have realised they need to talk properly to the TU now, which is a good thing. So hopefully now all will be resolved properly to everyone's benefit...
I think the Union cocked up by announcing 12 continual days of strikes. This is not good for company or union members. Whoever made that decision wants shooting. They should have just started with limited action with room to escalate if required.
That said, I take issue with those who moan about the disruption to the public over Christmas.. When is a good time to take action to protect your terms and conditions? In aviation whatever you do, whenever you do it, unfortunately the public will lose out.
It's about time the boot was firmly placed on the other foot. How wrong it was of BA to cause a situation that resulted in it's employees feeling the need to ballot.
It looks as if BA have realised they need to talk properly to the TU now, which is a good thing. So hopefully now all will be resolved properly to everyone's benefit...
Paull, I though the same - the error of procedure would have been hard to avoid and unlikely to affect the outcome of the ballot. Sounds like a distinctly dodgey legal decision to me. But I have no sympathy for these idiot union dinosaurs.
Can someone here speak for the workers from a position of knowledge (I cannot)? There has to be a reason something like 90% voted to strike, the tiny proportion that has caused this technical ruling from the court is irrelevant to that proportion. I have no interest or bias either way, I just feel uneasy that everyone seems to back the management. A manager being paid something in the order of 600k a year plus bonus and one imagines with a secure pension telling people on about 30k (not bad I'll grant you) with insecure pensions that they are over paid seems wrong! For example, is the pension "black hole" a result of a company that took contribution holidays in the good times and now wants to renege on its commitments in the bad times. This seems to be the case with many pensions. However middle class we might feel, we are all wage slaves really, about three pay packets away from losing the house, this knee jerk anti-unionism feels like a long term problem for us all.
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Capot
I find your answer patronising.
I am no longer BA crew and as I said do not support the strike.
In asking the question as to how people had lost thousands I am well aware that some have, in my opinion, jumped the gun and rearranged their flights. I am sure you know that if BA had cancelled any flights then full refunds would have been due. Yes, changing the dates of any flight may incur extra hotel charges and the like that is also why I believe the media should take some responsibility for whipping up a frenzied campaign suggesting there wouldn't be a BA jet in the air for the whole 12 days!
Your decision to change your flights is, of course. your choice - who knows my company may pick up some of your business. On a personal note I will proceed with my BA flight over Christmas as booked.
Just for the record I was not one of 'the cheering morons' neither am I one of the bad guys. I enjoyed my time with BA and worked with some of the most professional people I have ever worked with, I feel a genuine sadness that these people will be included by the travelling public and the press with the misguided CC who voted for the strike.
I find your answer patronising.
I am no longer BA crew and as I said do not support the strike.
In asking the question as to how people had lost thousands I am well aware that some have, in my opinion, jumped the gun and rearranged their flights. I am sure you know that if BA had cancelled any flights then full refunds would have been due. Yes, changing the dates of any flight may incur extra hotel charges and the like that is also why I believe the media should take some responsibility for whipping up a frenzied campaign suggesting there wouldn't be a BA jet in the air for the whole 12 days!
Your decision to change your flights is, of course. your choice - who knows my company may pick up some of your business. On a personal note I will proceed with my BA flight over Christmas as booked.
Just for the record I was not one of 'the cheering morons' neither am I one of the bad guys. I enjoyed my time with BA and worked with some of the most professional people I have ever worked with, I feel a genuine sadness that these people will be included by the travelling public and the press with the misguided CC who voted for the strike.
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The legal finding was that the error of procedure was entirely and easily avoidable. BASSA knew about the error and willfully continued on its course of action without any care as to the legality or otherwise of the ballot. There was nothing wrong with the law or the way it was interpreted by BA, only BASSA and UNITE failed to understand the importance of conducting a legal ballot, which is a little odd for a union, particularly UNITE who should by now know how to carry out a ballot.
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Call 100 has it right. Perhaps you should all stop and consider WW's reputation. If he wins this one, none of you are ever going to be vaguely safe again. It is incredibly arrogant to assume that the CSD Dorises managed to persuade everyone else to vote in favour as though they're really the only ones going to be affected.
If a membership has that sort of support then there is more to it than most contributors on here know. Further, a strike is called to be won, not to pussyfoot about being polite. Now ineviatbly it will be longerdrawn out causing more pain to more people.
As for savings - I do a MAN - SSH trip AND BACK in a day in a 75 / 76.
BA go one way (777, faster etc) and slip for three days. In the name of Icarus how do you expect to make money with that sort of a business plan. Be assured, since WW managed to defeat the pilots, the next group was always going to be the CC. If the cart tarts back down, he'll just move onwards.
Finally, all this cr@p about their salaries. If you earn what you signed up for, why should YOU be the sacrificial lamb who takes a cut or works for nothing? You can be fairly sure that most of us have outgoings proportional to our income - it's not just that easy to say - "Hey yes, no problem, pay me less, let me help out with Willie's bonus...." Remember, all the current pay scales and deals were agreed by BA management and once you accept the principle that a contract is only good until it's torn up, it won't be any good grumbling when your turn comes around.
I'd love to know what Aer Lingus employees would recommend!
If a membership has that sort of support then there is more to it than most contributors on here know. Further, a strike is called to be won, not to pussyfoot about being polite. Now ineviatbly it will be longerdrawn out causing more pain to more people.
As for savings - I do a MAN - SSH trip AND BACK in a day in a 75 / 76.
BA go one way (777, faster etc) and slip for three days. In the name of Icarus how do you expect to make money with that sort of a business plan. Be assured, since WW managed to defeat the pilots, the next group was always going to be the CC. If the cart tarts back down, he'll just move onwards.
Finally, all this cr@p about their salaries. If you earn what you signed up for, why should YOU be the sacrificial lamb who takes a cut or works for nothing? You can be fairly sure that most of us have outgoings proportional to our income - it's not just that easy to say - "Hey yes, no problem, pay me less, let me help out with Willie's bonus...." Remember, all the current pay scales and deals were agreed by BA management and once you accept the principle that a contract is only good until it's torn up, it won't be any good grumbling when your turn comes around.
I'd love to know what Aer Lingus employees would recommend!
This would seem to benefit all involved.
I guess it is too much to hope that, given what has happened at Globespan, they will vote more carefully if there is a next time?!
The scenes at the vote result the other day were disgusting.
If you take a "straw poll" from the posts various, it seems 90%+ of people do not support the CC anyway!
You have a job and a good one at that!
Join those lucky ones of us who have still got a job, with our frozen pay & increments, reduced allowances, reduced standard of hotels, etc etc.
It still pays the mortgage and we are heading for even darker times financially - when the next Government is formed.
lsh
I guess it is too much to hope that, given what has happened at Globespan, they will vote more carefully if there is a next time?!
The scenes at the vote result the other day were disgusting.
If you take a "straw poll" from the posts various, it seems 90%+ of people do not support the CC anyway!
You have a job and a good one at that!
Join those lucky ones of us who have still got a job, with our frozen pay & increments, reduced allowances, reduced standard of hotels, etc etc.
It still pays the mortgage and we are heading for even darker times financially - when the next Government is formed.
lsh
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anyone know how much it will cost Unite to re-ballot ?
Its an early Christmas gift from all us BA passengers ... any of BA's cabin crew that vote again for strike, need a trip to the mental hospital
Its an early Christmas gift from all us BA passengers ... any of BA's cabin crew that vote again for strike, need a trip to the mental hospital
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I wonder what the reballot will be voting for:
A) Accept that you get paid a HUGE sum for what you do and agree to cut costs like everyone else with a brain
B) Strike anyway, the Government will surely do a banking-style rescue of a cherished brand
C) Take the ship down with all souls and crack on with the strike - we realise there is no bailout on the cards
A) Accept that you get paid a HUGE sum for what you do and agree to cut costs like everyone else with a brain
B) Strike anyway, the Government will surely do a banking-style rescue of a cherished brand
C) Take the ship down with all souls and crack on with the strike - we realise there is no bailout on the cards
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Small Willy Walsh sips his cognac while the rest of the " experts " here agree what a great day it is for them and the industry. No wonder pilots are paying to fly aeroplanes. No balls.
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Originally Posted by XT668
As for savings - I do a MAN - SSH trip AND BACK in a day in a 75 / 76.
BA go one way (777, faster etc) and slip for three days. In the name of Icarus how do you expect to make money with that sort of a business plan. Be assured, since WW managed to defeat the pilots, the next group was always going to be the CC. If the cart tarts back down, he'll just move onwards.
BA go one way (777, faster etc) and slip for three days. In the name of Icarus how do you expect to make money with that sort of a business plan. Be assured, since WW managed to defeat the pilots, the next group was always going to be the CC. If the cart tarts back down, he'll just move onwards.
Once again, this route is operated from LGW, by crew that are already working to the new crew compliments, have been for three years and in the majority, had no intention of striking. Please stop using this route as an example to show how hard everyone else works, while we at BA, supposedly, swan around taking it easy. It's a complete red herring!
Last edited by jetset lady; 17th Dec 2009 at 17:03.
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I see that in the Judges summation she practically admits that her judgement was political:
"She said: 'A strike of this kind over the 12 days of Christmas is fundamentally more damaging to BA and the wider public than a strike taking place at almost any other time of the year.'"
yes? and? - what does the time of year have to do with enforcing the law?
