Arrogant posters
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To Rainboe
I passenger a lot. I sit there in horror watching people holding up papers during the safety briefing, reading, wiping kids noses, looking out of the window etc, while the cabin crew gamely go through the full briefing pantomime. They don't even look around and clock the nearest exit! These people I would call fools, idiots, twerps. It's something that could save your life. They fulfil the definition of those words. Come the time they actually need the emergency equipment in anger, they are confused sheep! 'What do I do with the oxygen mask?' 'Do I pull it, untangle it, stand up and breath into it?' 'Where's my nearest exit?' And as for Hadow seeing to his son first? Such people shouldn't be allowed out without a helmet on with a message on it 'please take care of me because I'm a bit stupid!'.
On the other hand, totally agree with you: lots and lots of stupid comments by non-specialists in the professional sections of the forum
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I passenger a lot too. For this reason I do not listen to the safety briefing because I know it by hard. As do a lot of other people on board. But I also do know where the emergency exit is. Always have a look while boarding.
The flight attendant as a qualified crewmember is providing a briefing...and you as a qualified crewmember ought to be paying attention. Whether you're part of that crew or not.
Personally, I remove the briefing card, open it up, and give the flight attendant my full attention during the briefing. It's good practice regardless of who is watching, and a good example to those around you.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chester, Cheshire, UK
Age: 68
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I passenger a lot too. For this reason I do not listen to the safety briefing because I know it by hard.
I don't travel too much but I can still probably give a fair representation of a safety briefing, but the first thing I always do after stowing my carry on and doing up my seatbelt is to reach for the safety card, which I then read cover to cover. I then conscientiously watch and listen to the safety briefing. How am I to know that one day they may choose to change something significant? How am I to know that the one thing that sticks in my head this time around might be the one thing I need to know to save my life ... or the one minor item that I forgot isn't going to be the one that kills me or the person next to me?
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Down the airway.
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Always pay attention during briefing. It is rude not to and you would be damned fool if you missed something.
You see, one thing that all passengers seem to not look at is what happens if their nearest Emergency Exit is blocked or unserviceable.
One always needs to check the next nearest, as well as the life jacket in place.
I also of long habit, always check and see if the the pax in the nearest EEs are drinking a lot of alcohol. Stupid neurosis? Perhaps, but I like to know who I have to help or maybe hysterical confused, deal with in emergency. Also, dangerous to say, but - always make mental assessment of cabin crew. Also check positions of fire extinguishers and smoke hoods. Not my job but I like to know.
So, is that arrogant? Perhaps, but the cabin crew are safer flying with me than with most!
(You can call that arrogant !)
You see, one thing that all passengers seem to not look at is what happens if their nearest Emergency Exit is blocked or unserviceable.
One always needs to check the next nearest, as well as the life jacket in place.
I also of long habit, always check and see if the the pax in the nearest EEs are drinking a lot of alcohol. Stupid neurosis? Perhaps, but I like to know who I have to help or maybe hysterical confused, deal with in emergency. Also, dangerous to say, but - always make mental assessment of cabin crew. Also check positions of fire extinguishers and smoke hoods. Not my job but I like to know.
So, is that arrogant? Perhaps, but the cabin crew are safer flying with me than with most!
(You can call that arrogant !)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a stupidly arrogant attitude ... even more so if you are crew!
Regarding the show, I know how to fasten the seat belt and how to pull the oxygen mask and how to put the life vest on. So, I watch it really occasionally, mostly if the hostess is pretty
.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Yes, please. For the same reason that (as pointed out above) I want all of the crew to attend to their briefings meticulously, even though they know them off by heart even better than you do. And you should give yourself your own briefing on final approach as well. The reason is the same: You want everything to be absolutely fresh in your mind at the precise instant that you need it. There is no better way than doing a proper briefing.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: FarFarAway
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regarding the show, I know how to fasten the seat belt and how to pull the oxygen mask and how to put the life vest on. So, I watch it really occasionally, mostly if the hostess is pretty
B: You know how to fasten your seatbelt and pull the oxygen mask and don on your life jacket, well done; however, may i suggest another reason why you should watch the safety demo: say last week you were in an a/c and you know the life jacket is underneath your seat. This week you jump in the same a/c (you think, because it's the same airline) and you're sure your life jacket is underneath your seat. You ignore the safety demo because "you know it by hard". Ah, but what you don't know is that in this a/c, the life jacket is in the panel above your head. It's the same manufacturer but newer series so the LJ's are stowed above your head. Just a simple example really, in case the sh!t hits the fan.
C: again, with all due respect, it doesn't really matter if the hostie is pretty or not; maybe the ugly one at the back will be the one who saves your behind should an emergency arise.
Sorry, got carried away. Back to do the safety demo now.
Rgds,
ATS
Last edited by Abusing_the_sky; 11th Sep 2008 at 11:09. Reason: Because I can :)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: YPPH
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regarding the show, I know how to fasten the seat belt and how to pull the oxygen mask and how to put the life vest on. So, I watch it really occasionally, mostly if the hostess is pretty
Guest
Posts: n/a
they are not to be 'looked at' they are there for your safety.
They should wear tracksuits or similar clothing that are more practical in emergencies.
Too many absolutes get quoted on this BB.
For the same reason people generally wear business attire when they are at work. It projects an image and that image in an aircraft is one of professionalism and authority. For all those who travel as SLF the survival stats favour those who have paid attention during the brief and have some idea of what to do if the worst happens.
Supercharged PPRuNer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Doon the watter, a million miles from the sandpit.
Posts: 1,183
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh dear.
I know the take off emergency brief off by heart and I can recite the engine failure drill from memory. I hear it every day I go flying, but when the other guy briefs me I put down the paperwork and listen to what he has to say. As others have said, it keeps it fresh and will save me valuable thinking time should we ever have a real emergency.
Few things wind me up as much as pax who can't be bothered to listen to the safety demo.
I know the take off emergency brief off by heart and I can recite the engine failure drill from memory. I hear it every day I go flying, but when the other guy briefs me I put down the paperwork and listen to what he has to say. As others have said, it keeps it fresh and will save me valuable thinking time should we ever have a real emergency.
Few things wind me up as much as pax who can't be bothered to listen to the safety demo.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For all those who travel as SLF the survival stats favour those who have paid attention during the brief and have some idea of what to do if the worst happens.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It really makes my blood boil when I travel as pax and sit next to people ignoring safety briefings. Recently I flew back from Brussels and as a matter of course always count the number of rows between me and the exit. The guy next to me thought was mad and found it funny, so I explained to him if we has a fire on the ground and had to evacuate, I would know exactly how many rows I would have to crawl on the floor till I got to the exit. I also suggested that he not try to grab on to any of my clothing in this event as I would be more concerned of getting out of a smoke filled aircraft.
He watched the safety briefing, even turned his Laptop off and Blackberry as well.
I fly the 737 both Classic and NG and know the door exit opening by heart, but I always read the card and listen to the briefing, just in case.
I hope that those of you that know better than me are never between me and a door on that day, as I will go over you.
He watched the safety briefing, even turned his Laptop off and Blackberry as well.
I fly the 737 both Classic and NG and know the door exit opening by heart, but I always read the card and listen to the briefing, just in case.
I hope that those of you that know better than me are never between me and a door on that day, as I will go over you.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Thinking about it, give me a minute.
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DaH like your post. Ford Cortina good advice about counting the rows.
The publication 'Nuts' about Southwest Airlines is a great read. two chapters in particular which unfotunately can't be published here due to copyright laws.
Chapter 19 'Customers Come Second' (and still get great service)
Chapter 20 'Employees Come first' (great service begins at home)
Before you ask no I don't work for Southwest Airlines and no I am not on commission for pushing the book!
We Came
We Saw
We kicked Tail
Once deperated out of LHR on a very stormy night and as we taxied to the holding point the Captain took the time to say a few comforting words.
'we expect it to be a little rough during take-off so please listen carefully to the cabin crews safety briefing, check your seatbelt is fastened tightly and ensure you are aware of your surroundings and the location of the nearest emergency exit'! a bit unorthodox but it certainly got everyones attention! never heard a cabin so quiet and not a newspaper in sight!
The publication 'Nuts' about Southwest Airlines is a great read. two chapters in particular which unfotunately can't be published here due to copyright laws.
Chapter 19 'Customers Come Second' (and still get great service)
Chapter 20 'Employees Come first' (great service begins at home)
Before you ask no I don't work for Southwest Airlines and no I am not on commission for pushing the book!
We Came
We Saw
We kicked Tail
Once deperated out of LHR on a very stormy night and as we taxied to the holding point the Captain took the time to say a few comforting words.
'we expect it to be a little rough during take-off so please listen carefully to the cabin crews safety briefing, check your seatbelt is fastened tightly and ensure you are aware of your surroundings and the location of the nearest emergency exit'! a bit unorthodox but it certainly got everyones attention! never heard a cabin so quiet and not a newspaper in sight!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ireland
Age: 46
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rainboe has hit the nail on the head way back in post 42.
I've been a frequent visitor to this site the past 5 years. Everytime I have had a question it has been answered politely and in all cases by the appropriately qualified people.
I do think a lot of the issues mentioned in these threads are related to the rumours and news forum. I have never and probably will never post in an accident thread. I'm not qualified to throw my opinion in there. I frequently read these threads and can completely understand why some of the pros get annoyed and short with posts. Of all the industrys out there, it appears aviation has the most wannabes/so called experts/armchair quarterbacks of them all. I'm not sure why this is. The danger here is that pprune is often quoted in the media - and some of the posters haven't a clue what they are talking about. Furthermore, it appears to me that most newbies don't bother using the search before posting.. I think i've seen that dog barking in the a320 thread about 100 times!
The point is, this site was setup for Professional pilots and we as pax are indeed very lucky to have access to such a resource. We are being accomodated and I for one am grateful for that.
So if there is the odd tetchy reply - in most cases I think you will find it is warranted.
In my student days I had the pleasure of cleaning Aer Lingus aircraft during the summer holidays. Believe me, once you've cleaned a Futura charter in from gran Canaria, you get a good sense of what Cabin Crew have to deal with day in day out. After a saturday night shift in Dub I lregularly left the ramp thinking all pax were filthy lowlife scum!
Give the good folks a break - forums are a healthy way to let off a bit of steam.
AGOW
I've been a frequent visitor to this site the past 5 years. Everytime I have had a question it has been answered politely and in all cases by the appropriately qualified people.
I do think a lot of the issues mentioned in these threads are related to the rumours and news forum. I have never and probably will never post in an accident thread. I'm not qualified to throw my opinion in there. I frequently read these threads and can completely understand why some of the pros get annoyed and short with posts. Of all the industrys out there, it appears aviation has the most wannabes/so called experts/armchair quarterbacks of them all. I'm not sure why this is. The danger here is that pprune is often quoted in the media - and some of the posters haven't a clue what they are talking about. Furthermore, it appears to me that most newbies don't bother using the search before posting.. I think i've seen that dog barking in the a320 thread about 100 times!
The point is, this site was setup for Professional pilots and we as pax are indeed very lucky to have access to such a resource. We are being accomodated and I for one am grateful for that.
So if there is the odd tetchy reply - in most cases I think you will find it is warranted.
In my student days I had the pleasure of cleaning Aer Lingus aircraft during the summer holidays. Believe me, once you've cleaned a Futura charter in from gran Canaria, you get a good sense of what Cabin Crew have to deal with day in day out. After a saturday night shift in Dub I lregularly left the ramp thinking all pax were filthy lowlife scum!
Give the good folks a break - forums are a healthy way to let off a bit of steam.
AGOW
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How do you know? Give me a link to that stats, please. I still believe it is mainly a matter of luck. Sorry. I do understand the importance of the briefing and all the safety procedures but you clearly exaggerate it here.
Let's say that as the cabin floods you panic and forget that you shouldn't inflate your vest until outside the cabin. I've seen it happen, even in training in dunk tanks and in the water...people in a hurry to fall back on basic instinct...they inflate the vest. Now you're bulky, now you have a hard time making it to the exit, and if the cabin is really flooding, you're held back by the boyant vest...and you're blocking everyone else. Not only will you likely drown, but also the people you're blocking...your ignorance and disbelief has just killed someone. Possibly a lot of someone's.
You flew on a Boeing last. Now you're on an airbus. You like the overwing exit aisle; it's got foot room. A rejected takeoff, there's a fire. Time to go. You didn't review the briefing; you know it by heart. But it's not in the forefront of your mind...the real reason it's given every time...and now you're trying to open the door the wrong way. Does this one flip up and out? Is it a door I set in the seat, or twist and throw out? I know it by heart...but how does this one work?
You're seated at the back of the airplane, in a DC-9. Just after takeoff you feel a roll and a drop and a bang, and next thing everyone is screaming and clambering as the aircraft shakes, smoke enters the cabin, masks and luggage drop, the fuselage starts to roll, and a bright orange glow is seen off one side of the airplane. As the aircraft comes to a rest, you've seen it all, heard it all, know it all...now it's all on you, the expert traveler who won't listen unless it's a pretty girl, to get the exit open. Do you know how to do that? Do you know how to jettison the tailcone? It's different on this airplane...but you know that because you're an expert traveler that doesn't need to listen, right? Or will an airplane full or terrified passengers die behind you as you try to figure outs, the exit in the dark, in the smoke, and on fire?
The aircraft floats, but as you go out the exit and into the cold water, looking for a raft that another passenger who didn't bother to listen was unable to inflate...you find that you successfully brought your seat cushion with you as a flotation device. Good for you. Except everyone else is wearing a life vest, and you're not. You didn't listen...this airplane was equipped with life vests and you're the only one who's going to be floating holding on to a water logged seat cushion for the next six hours. Way to go.
You've heard it before, you know that when the captain turns on the fasten seatbelts sign, you should put it on...but let's get real. You've had hundreds, if not thousands of hours in flight without any problem. How bad could it be, right? They wouldn't have served coffee and soda if it was going to be bad, right? Never mind that turbulence can slam you against the ceiling and break your back or neck, or throw you right out of your seat...you don't need to listen to the briefing or the cabin anouncements...you're smarter and more experienced than the crew, the manufacturer, the airline, the experts who wrote the briefing cards and the briefings...all of them. After all, you're a passenger.
Sure, in the briefing they tell you no smoking in the lavatory...but it's one cigarette, and you know that the airflow goes out the toilet...so what's wrong with that? Right? Other than fatalities that have resulted from not listening. Other than your impending arrest. Other than a crew getting an alarm and diverting to another airport. But you don't worry about it. You've heard the briefings, and it's all just a show, anyway. Right?
You can use your cell phone. The crew wouldn't know the difference. You're just texting your buddy to tell him you'll be late...as always...because the stupid airline can't seem to get you there on time. They wasted time with the briefing...which you know by heart...instead of getting the show on the road and getting you here. It's their fault, so you're justified in using your phone, right? Never mind that we can hear it in the cockpit over our headphones (you didn't know that, did you?), that it can interfere with navigational equipment and electronics (didn't know that either, did you?), and that there's a reason you're told in the briefing to turn it off.
We've come to a rest, but the cabin is full of smoke. They're calling for an evacuation, or something like that...don't really know because you don't listen to the cabin announcements...it's all just a show anyway...but there's so much smoke, eyes are burning, choking, must breathe. Can't see the exits now, which way is the front of the airpalne? Everybody is pushing and shoving, can't see the seats. Too much smoke. Everybody's fighting to go some direction, and some are crawling over the seatbacks. Every man for himself. They didn't listen to the briefing either. How to find an exit? Never mind that this aircraft has lighted floor signals directing you to an exit...that was in the brieifing...but that's all just for show.
The aircraft has come to a complete stop. Don't know what was wrong, but everyone's moving for the exites. We've been told to evacuate the airplane...gotta get that brief case. It's got important papers in it. Everyone else can wait two ticks...this is important. You're not going to let it burn up in the airplane. Yes, the briefing told you to leave all your belongings behind and proceed to the nearest exit, but not you. You don't need someone who's just there to look pretty and put on a show telling you how to do business; you're an expert, and a veteran traveller. You're going to take your bag with you. Possibly cut open the slide on the way down, possibly get stuck in the door way. Possibly have to discard it when the flight attendant takes it from you by the exit to expedite your egress (to save your life, you see)...but it's all about you. You're taking back the authority granted to the crew and keeping it for yourself. You know more than anyone else. You didn't listen to the briefing, don't want to hear it. You're taking your things and that's it. Too bad someone will die because the slide was punctured, or you were too slow in the door with your things, or others saw you grabbing your things and followed your poor example and did the same...but at least you'll have your bags and briefcase.
Sure, the briefing always tells you to put your tray tables and seatbacks in an upright position. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Heard it all before, yesterdays' news. Don't need to hear it again. Come on, for crying out loud. It's just a few inches of seat travel, it's not going to be the end of the world if you forget, right? Never mind that your seat was designed for impact with the seatback upright and locked, or that the tray table could do irreparable damage to you, or that your seat being back might prevent an egress by the people behind you, or that there may be any number of other reasons for it...you don't believe it, you think it's all for show, and you know more, right?
Wrong. You committed to listening to the briefing when you bought your ticket, and you committed to honoring and following that briefing as part of your contract with the airline as a passenger; it comes with the ticket. Your failure to listen carefully and obey places everyone at risk.
Now, as a veteran traveller you don't need to listen. We get it. You know more than anyone else. And you demand statistics to prove there's some reason you should listen. I'm not going to give you statistics. I will tell you that I'm a traveller too, as well as a reasonably experienced pilot and crewmember. I've had the additional benefit of emergency training, on aircraft and other venues...as this isn't my only career path. I was a firefighter for years, dealing with emergencies ranging from car fires to structure fires to extricating people who were trapped. I've been in the real thing many times, burning cars, burning aircraft, burning houses. I was a medic, and have been in the real situation on plenty of occasions where lives really do depend on doing what one is told. As a pilot I've been in an air crash, and I can tell you it's NOT academic, and certainly NOT a show. I've been in dunk tanks, been through company training in the water, putting out fires...all the hands-on training. I've been an instructor. I've been instructed. I hold multiple pilot, crew, and mechanic certificates, and have been around airplanes since I was a kid, mostly employed to fly them and work on them and protect them.
Know what? Every time I get on the airplane as a passenger...any airplane from a Cessna to a Boeing to an Airbus...I listen to the briefing, very carefully. I give my full attention, every bit of it. I remove the safety briefing card and read it. I reach for and feel for the life vest. Make sure my seat is upright, my cell off, and I count the seatbacks to every exit in the airplane so I can find them without looking. I note the distances as well as the obstacles, and make a note of how to do it if the aircraft is upside down and I'm on the ceiling. I make sure my seat belt isn't twisted, note the oxygen cover panels on the ceiling, ensure everything is secured and under the seat in front...and I pay attention. Even if it's multiple legs in one day. Perhaps you're such a veteran that you don't need to do these things...perhaps you know more than I do, more than the crew does, more than the flight attendant who is paid to be there to save your life, more than the airline, more than airbus or boeing or the company that wrote your safety briefing card, more than the designers of the airplane and the emergency equipment that's in it...but I really don't think so.
When I was eighteen and crop dusting, I flew behind a man who had been operating the same three airplanes for the last fifteen years. The airplanes were seemingly identical, save for the color of their paint. We had a yellow one, an orange one, and a blue one. Lain flew the blue one, except for today. He would be in the yellow airplane. As we held short of the runway doing our runup, Lain took extra time, and I grew impatient. I asked about the holdup. Finally when he was ready, we went flying. He took off, I took off, and we went to the fields.
Lain flew a little wider turns, not quite as aggressive, and I followed his lead. When we got back, I asked him what took so long. He told me that even though the airplane was seemingly identical, and even though he'd been flying the same airplanes for fifteen years and many thousands of hours, he recognized that he was intimately familiar with the blue airplane...and now was in a different airframe. It might stall a little differently, fly a little differently; bottom line, even though he was certainly an expert, he took nothing for granted, and took a little more time to familiarize himself, brief himself if you will, on the "new" airplane...the one he'd already flown for thousands of hours and many years. Perhaps it's just experience that teaches some of us that we don't know it all, that care and caution are prudent, and that a briefing really is worth something.
Here, we talk about arrogant pilots, but what I'm reading about are arrogant passengers...one who knows it all, has seen it all, and doesn't need the "show" or the repetition. I can tell you I haven't seen it all yet, but I can guarantee I've seen a whole lot more than you. I find it very important to sit and listen to the briefing each and every time. What's your excuse, again?