Overwing Exits and Frequent Fliers?

[ChristiaanJ]

Originally Posted by CR2

Having done plenty of training evacs....

Lucky guy....
Wouldn't mind doing one, even at my age.
But how many pax get an occasion to do that? I bet, they're far fewer than car drivers who at least can take an extended course on a skid pan, and suchlike.

[leeUK]

Between me and the exit

I had seen myriad examples of hopelessly inappropriate passengers in the exit row seats so I subsequently readjusted my thinking and gave up on the exit row mess- now it's the aisle seat, last row, right hand side (and many, many boarding stubs to prove it)-and nothing but space between me and the rear door. My money is on the trained cabin crew member stationed there and to me that is worth the loss of a bit of leg room!

[beermaddavep]

Interesting reading.

Despite being overweight, I have no doubts at all about my ability to safely open any emergency exit if the need arises.

What concerns me is the comment that a fat person might not fit out of the wing exits!

If that is the case then surely very large passengers should always be seated closer to the conventional exit doors-in an evacuation one of the worst things possible would be to have one big(and likely strong or panicking) person trying to get from the centre to the front or rear of the plane against the flow of some of the rest of the pax?

Just how small are these exits?

[Panman]

WHBM wrote

...... Do Virgin Atlantic still do it ?
......................
If you are cabin crew you may have spotted me one day, I'm the one who when you say "life vest" actually feels under the seat to see it is there.....

Yes VS still charge for their exit row seats. And the price varies according to your destination.
When you check for said life vest, how much chewing gum do you come up with. If it's one thing I dread when doing cabin safety checks is the handfull of gum when checking expiry dates on life vests.
PaNMaN

[crewboi83]

It makes me laugh when someone who travels as a commercial pax often thinks they do more flights that the crew and think they know best.
I guess FQT flyers do make good pax to have at overwings/doors, but id still rather have a crew member, One thing you never get told when ur briefed to use these doors is how to use a slide as a rags slide shud it inflat and then deflate....
Just little things like that, how to disconnect slide from the door sil, how to use manual inflation handle, how to attach escape ropes to D ring on a 737 wing.
A lot of FQT flyers have this attitude, to me thats why you wouldnt be sat there, some of you think you know to much. and I agree, was my 6 weeks training a waste of time?
RE the comment regarding "who has never seen a seat belt"... well its a well known fact in an emergecny that passengers go to unfasten their seat belt as tho they were in a car, as its the only one they are familiar with.
Hence why we always make sure your belt is fastened with the buckle to the front. I do appriciate some of you may fly umpteen times a week/day/year/lifetime or what.... I still think you should give us the respect to take you through the demo, becuase its those of you that think you know it all that sit reading your paper in row 1, or with i half out in the aisle, or worse, talk to the person next to you at the top of your voice.
Its always going to be... crew think they know best, and FQT flyers think they know it all. but one thing to all those who fly often, when you travel on different airlines, things are different.... instead of questionning it, why cant you just get on with it? all our rules are differnt, my pet his is men hanging jackets on the pegs on the tray tables, some airlines allow this, mine dosnt... why cant u just put the jacket on for take off? or pop it in hat rack instead of kicking up a fuss and saying "i never had to at BA"

[ChristiaanJ]

Originally Posted by crewboi83

... was my 6 weeks training a waste of time?

Maybe, since you didn't get my point.

RE the comment regarding "who has never seen a seat belt"...

That was me...

... well it's a well known fact in an emergency that passengers go to unfasten their seat belt as tho they were in a car, as its the only one they are familiar with.

Two answers to that...
- How many people in an emergency know how to unlock their car safety belt?
- If you're right, shouldn't be aircraft seat belts be designed like car safety belts?

Hence why we always make sure your belt is fastened with the buckle to the front.

Nice to know you do. But what if you can't fasten the belt except by twisting the belt (nice during a crash)? As I described, I figured it out. being an engineer The average pax wouldn't.

[PAXboy]

FF know it alls? Yep, seen 'em and heard 'em in the 41 years that I have been a pax. I'm not FF but just a regular one across that time and on more models of a/c than I can remember.

It is true ChristiaanJ that you occasionally find belts where the buckle has been reversed and you have to reach deep between the seats to unsnap the shackle, return it to the correct orientation and then make sure that the shackle has not just 'snapped' but that it's safety latch is correctly positioned too..

kingair9

KLM did the very best thing I can imagine in the 80s: They invited their frequent flyers to AMS for a safety day in which they were allowed to open doors and wing exits, to "shoot" a slide etc. I was one of the lucky ones to go there and once you had completed this "training" you were always marked on the PIL and in your booking. So you would automatically get these seats and the crew would know that you had been in the training.

I do understand that cost does not allow such things any more ...

That is certainly the problem - cost. But just think what an interesting marketing angle it would be to do it now? I woul say that many pax would pay a contribution in cash or FFMs. The research department at Cranfield are set up for this I think? I have often heard that the 'plug' doors are very heavy and would like to know just how it feels to manipulate one when there is time to find out.

leeUK I could not agree more. If I am in coach, then I try to get right down the back as I presume that my fellow pax will plug the gap. It has the added benefit of allowing you to watch everyone scramble off at the destination, walk in a leisurely manner to the carousel and find them all waiting there - just as your bag arrives!

I would rather have off-duty FC + CC in the emergency exits because their training has them thinking that something might go wrong. Whereas pax always think that everything will go right. I equate this with a simple rule from my driving instructor, "Approach every traffic light expecting that it will go red - not that it will stay green."

[OFBSLF]

The rest of you "I've been on a 7x7 a hundred times, so I can read my newspaper instead" are a problem.

Not every aircraft of the same type is the same. Do well to remember that.

CR2: Once I've sat down and stowed my luggage, I take out the briefing card and study it. I've spent 5-10 minutes studying it and my environs long before you start the safety briefing. I do this on each and every flight. I don't assume that one 737 is the same as another 737, even if they belong to the same carrier and it is just a day after the previous flight.

The safety briefing is not going to teach me anything unique to a particular aircraft (though the safety card might). The safety briefing covers operating the seat belt, putting on the oxygen masks, and the location of the exits. I know how to put on and take off the seat belt. I've already got it on long before you started the briefing. I know how to put on the oxygen mask. I've already located the exits -- I did that 10 minutes ago.

For 2 1/2 years, I did at least 2 legs a week. So I've already heard the briefing at least 300 times. I know why you do the briefing and I respect your professionalism for doing it with conviction multiple times every day. I understand your concern that many people aren't paying attention. But please understand that some of us have already heard it and have already done the appropriate study of the safety card and the aircraft.

[OFBSLF]

It makes me laugh when someone who travels as a commercial pax often thinks they do more flights that the crew and think they know best.

!$@!!@#

Would you PLEASE STOP MISREPRESENTING WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!
I've NEVER said that I know best. I've never said that I could operate the over-wing exit better than a crew. What I have said is that I think I could operate the over-wing exit well enough. And since the FAA and the CAA both allow pax to sit in the exit row, it appears to me that those particular safety experts agree with me -- that pax can operate the over-wing exits well enough.

The arrogance displayed by crew on this thread is truly astonishing.

I would rather have off-duty FC + CC in the emergency exits because their training has them thinking that something might go wrong. Whereas pax always think that everything will go right.

So tell me, please, just how is it that you know how all pax think? If you are able to read minds that well, I'm sure there are plenty of folks who'd like to speak with you.

If I "always think everything will go right", then why is it that I spend 5-10 minutes at the start of each flight studying the safety card, locating the exits fore and aft, counting the rows to the nearest exit, and memorizing the procedure to open that exit? If I "always think everything will go right", why do I say a brief prayer before takeoff, even though I'm not a churchly type?

The prejudice displayed on this thread is truly disgusting.

[boaclhryul]

Just flew EWR-YYZ on a major NA carrier, in exit row, diligently read both the yellow (safety) and white (exit row) cards, learned the weight of the door I would have to heft - on a 737NG :-) . Right.

[Roadster280]

My two cents -

As a FF (BA Gold, DL Platinum), I have the odd hour under my belt. I can't remember them all, but at least including:

B747-400
B777-200
B777-300ER
B767-400
B767-300
B767-300ER
B767-200
B757
B737-just about all of them
B717
MD-80
MD-88
MD-90
MD-11
A319
A320
A321
A330
A340
L1011
Comet (yes, really!)
Plus various CRJ, Fokker & Embraer puddlejumpers
In the military -
C130
Transall
VC10
Puma
Sea King
Chinook
Scout
Wessex
Lynx
Gazelle
Squirrel

The point is, despite the seats looking much the same (less helos & mil ac), they keep moving the doors and safety procedures on me SO I READ THE CARD. I LISTEN TO THE PRESENTATION. Much as it makes me laugh how the same old faces are on the same old videos of the airlines, it gives me the info I need for THIS ac.

I'm sure this has backed up the CC here, but a note of caution. Here's a quote from another thread from CC (my bold):

I also do say though if half the pax LISTENED to saftey demos rather than gassing and reading and thinking yeah yeah whatever, the situation may not have been so scary as they would have known what to do straigh away.

If CC can't spell safety, what in God's name suggests that said individual will pay any more attention to detail in the carrying out of saftey (sic) duties than merely spelling it correctly?

[CR2]

OFBSLF

You have the right attitude.

PS: I'm on 74 Freighters, nothing to do with being Cabin Crew. I respect & listen to what the CC have to say. Just as I'd expect them (and anyone else) to respect & listen to me on a -F.

Roadster280: Playing spelling police is frowned upon here. Not all of us are expert typists.

[Roadster280]

CR2 - If I were playing spelling police, I'd have picked up the other spelling mistake in the quote. My point is that there are minute differences in the safety procedures on variants of the same aircraft (even amongst the same variants). The credibility or otherwise of those guiding us mere SLF is somewhat undermined by a lack of attention to detail.

BTW - define "here". I think you'll find poor spelling is frowned upon equally here.

[X_class]

Interesting how others have commented how easy a seat belt is to use.
I was in Cathays new 'toastrack' business class a few weeks back. The upper deck was full. At the end of the safety demo the FAs went round and put the sash belt on each passenger. I was the only person in that cabin to have put the belt on correctly.
Now admittedly this was a three point belt not your usual lap belt. Even so the cabin was radically different to the normal cabin layout yet that did not seem to trigger any curiosity in the other passengers. I spent the boarding wait exploring the seat (took me 10 min to locate the life jacket). Most customers spent the safety demo reading the newspaper.
The flight attendants just smiled when I mentioned that nobody could put their belt on correctly. In their position I would have had had a fit.

[Final 3 Greens]

Just little things like that, how to disconnect slide from the door sil, how to use manual inflation handle, how to attach escape ropes to D ring on a 737 wing.

Slides on a 737 overwing exit?

[parabellum]

One point that hasn't been mentioned but I believe to be very relevant is this:

FF by the exit - opens it, gets out and then legs it, as fast as they can.

Crew of any kind or airline by the exit - opens it and then assists passengers through the exit, either from inside on, say, B747 or from outside on a B737 because that is what they are trained to do.

So it is a no-brainer really, if you have crew paxing then put them by the exits to improve the overall level of safety should an accident occur.

[Final 3 Greens]

Parabellum

Please will you provide hard evidence to support the wild assertion that you assume to be true and from which you build your subsequent 'logical' point?

I say again, any person who is not a member of the operating crew is a passenger.

How they will react in an emergency is unpredictable. They have not been part of a crew briefing and they may work for an airline with different SOPS - I would even go far as to suggest that non crew members (whoever they are) 'assisting' without crew instructions might, under some circumstances, make matters even worse.

When I was in an emergency where 57 died (not aviation related), I and other members of the public helped others and the evacuation was orderly.

However, on another day, there may have been blind panic.
You cannot make your assertion with any degree of confidence.

[PAXboy]

OFBSLF

So tell me, please, just how is it that you know how all pax think? If you are able to read minds that well, I'm sure there are plenty of folks who'd like to speak with you.

Wow!! OK, so I said 'all' instead of 'most'. Please climb back into your seat and secure your belt before taking off.

You may wish to note that I am one of those pax that, after securing his own belt, mentally notes if fellow pax have followed rules about luggage etc and checks the details with members of his own party. On one occasion, I had to call the CC to a neighbouring pax whose belt had broken and he was totally confused. We were already on the way out to the active, with less than two minutes to go.

I do all the counting rows and reading the card bit, check for life jacket (as well as that of others in my party) and report to CC when it is missing. (What a pity the CC on FR did not care when so informed).

So ... it is not unreasonable to suggest that the majority of pax assume the flight will go well. So of us assume that it will go well but try to be aware of something going wrong.

[parabellum]

"Location: The Med
Posts: 2,623


Parabellum

Please will you provide hard evidence to support the wild assertion that you assume to be true and from which you build your subsequent 'logical' point?

I say again, any person who is not a member of the operating crew is a passenger.



'Wild Assertion" indeed, you are starting to make a fool of yourself, having previously made a couple of fair points. If you, the travelling passenger, are by the exit, an emergency occurs and you are the one to open the door are you suggesting that you will either remain in the burning aircraft or stand on the wing outside the burning aircraft and assist other passengers to escape?
You, sir, will be the first one to be out the door, (with essential brief case), and across the grass as soon as your happy little legs will take you.
Professional aircrew know that having opened an exit their job is to get the passengers out, not just run away.

Any person who is not an operating member of the crew but is a trained professional in escape and evacuation of an aircraft, as a passenger, is going to be a whole lot more use than you.

[Final 3 Greens]

Parabellum

I see that you are incapable of answering the challenge and thus resort to presenting your own rabid polemic as if it were fact.