Bumped from BA First in Beijing
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Bumped from BA First in Beijing
Sitting in Beijing lounge about to return to Europe via BKK and get home only half a day late ! better than the extra day offered in Beijing, when I was looking forward to a weekend at home with family before hitting the road again on Monday.
One presumes that part of the premium high priced offering in First Class, is that once you have paid for the seat it is guaranteed. Arriving at check in 1.5 hrs before departure to be told that First is overbooked and I have been bumped does not generate confidence in BA as an organisation.
Overbooking in First is surely kicking the ar*e out of it BA. And then leaving one, only one BA ground staff rep on duty to run around and solve your premium pax problem in between solving the other 100 normal problems she has on a departure. Poor girl !!
Totally unacceptable
BA management continues its policy of alienating its premium pax
One presumes that part of the premium high priced offering in First Class, is that once you have paid for the seat it is guaranteed. Arriving at check in 1.5 hrs before departure to be told that First is overbooked and I have been bumped does not generate confidence in BA as an organisation.
Overbooking in First is surely kicking the ar*e out of it BA. And then leaving one, only one BA ground staff rep on duty to run around and solve your premium pax problem in between solving the other 100 normal problems she has on a departure. Poor girl !!
Totally unacceptable
BA management continues its policy of alienating its premium pax
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If it makes you feel any better, its happened to me on two other air-lines. One of which I held Gold and a guarantee of a seat being made available in whatever class I booked at 24 hours notice...
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I've been bumped from Business Class a couple of times around Europe with various airlines, which is not quite the same I know, but I think it happens more often than you would think
. Its not happened longhaul yet, but you can guarentee I would be creating a stink if it did..
Regards, SD..
. Its not happened longhaul yet, but you can guarentee I would be creating a stink if it did.. Regards, SD..
Personally , I would find that in First Class , given the fares , overbooking is not acceptable , no arguments , no excuses . I guess BA has lost another customer , that sort of service is not of quality . Simple .
Just like managers who say -" no that's not true " when discussing with those who work at the sharp end . Where will it all end ? Certainly the 'managers' all seem to survive !
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Back home now, after a bit of a short cut, via BKK and ZRH. Thanks BA for giving me a good look at Swissair First, great bed, great service, shame they only have a few routes.
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RSO man, I expect that the price in First factors in the odd no-show for most airlines. Wouldn't have minded so much if there was more than one flight a day from PEK, but there is not.
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Surely a no-show has already paid for their seat anyway? Especially in First!!!? Or do you mean cancellation?
There is absolutely no excuse for overbooking First. Period.
There is absolutely no excuse for overbooking First. Period.
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Goshdarnit
Flexible tickets (e.g. F and J, even Y) can and do no show with impunity.
Some companies block book seats in anticipation of travel needs and then no show them.
Of course airlines will overbook F, based on predicitve modelling of yields, but but it is customer relations disaster when they bump a passenger.
Were I RMAC, I would be absolutely furious and would be seeking major compensation as well as the re-routing.
Flexible tickets (e.g. F and J, even Y) can and do no show with impunity.
Some companies block book seats in anticipation of travel needs and then no show them.
Of course airlines will overbook F, based on predicitve modelling of yields, but but it is customer relations disaster when they bump a passenger.
Were I RMAC, I would be absolutely furious and would be seeking major compensation as well as the re-routing.
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Gosh Phileas....when was the last time you heard BA refer to themselves as the worlds favourite??? Im sure it was at least 12 years or so now since they used that as their slogan!!!!
Things have changed, its no longer about good customer service, its about profits and if you think its just BA then you are very niave! Im sure most of you in here are business people moreso than 1950's aviation romantics so you will be familiar with the concept of stretching revenue to maintain profits. Although we may not like the way certain companies/industries go about it its something we have to live with. It may happen to you on BA now hence you will switch your loyalty to say..Air France, but it will only be a matter of time before Air France do it to you too, then you will move elsewhere, same will happen until it has gone full circle!
Its not the over booking that should make you decide whether to ditch that particular airline but how its dealt with and what compensation you get in the end!!!
Sorry PaddyUK . The bottom line is service . The more you pay - L450 in economy or L5000 in First makes the difference , that's BUSINESS . There is no excuse for overbooking in First - that's part of what one pays for . The bottom line maybe shareholder profits but it's the customer who makes the profit - especially the First Class one , he should not be let down by shortsighted managers who only think of the bonus or promotion . If BA continues to carry on with this policy then I would think that the BA managers are not seriously thinking about BA's (and their) future .
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Let us make all first class tickets non refundable and then guarantee a no -overbooking policy. Any takers???
By the way when I started off in this industry more than a decade back, the first case I came accross of bumping in first was on---- BA!
So hardly mind boggling news this one !!!! I would say they woke up much earlier than others!
And ofcourse - the choice is always there - you can always risk having half empty first class cabins and end up by having first removed altogether - as many airlines have done!!!
It is not that I dont sympathise with rmac, but being on the other side of the fence, I also understand that sometimes there have to be ruthless economic decisions as well! Just like Ryan Air or Easy Jet has become "My (employer's) favourite airline", it all comes to this one word "Profit".
Overbooking , even on first has become more or less standard pratice nowadays. Mostly as F3G said , the predictive modelling works,- when it does not - then it becomes news!
Cheers
By the way when I started off in this industry more than a decade back, the first case I came accross of bumping in first was on---- BA!
So hardly mind boggling news this one !!!! I would say they woke up much earlier than others!
And ofcourse - the choice is always there - you can always risk having half empty first class cabins and end up by having first removed altogether - as many airlines have done!!!
It is not that I dont sympathise with rmac, but being on the other side of the fence, I also understand that sometimes there have to be ruthless economic decisions as well! Just like Ryan Air or Easy Jet has become "My (employer's) favourite airline", it all comes to this one word "Profit".
Overbooking , even on first has become more or less standard pratice nowadays. Mostly as F3G said , the predictive modelling works,- when it does not - then it becomes news!
Cheers
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RSOman,
I am not sure that I catch your logic. Full fare Y class, which is flexible, is considerably more expensive than than the non-refundable type. If they sold F tickets, non-refundable at the same percentage discount as they operate in Y class, I would say "hell yes !, give me more". As it is, with fares as they stand, my 90kg carcass is equivalent in average fare to 450kg's down the back, as well as 30kg of baggage vs. 110kg down the back. I would also imagine that the real estate takes up a little less space too, but real estate doesn't use 5x more fuel, check in time, baggage handlers, ticketing agents etc etc.
777 from Beijing has 12 seats in first, maybe +/-60 in business and probably 250+ in economy. Overbooking by 1 seat in First has an 8.33% chance of an upset, if I asked you to go for an operation in hospital which had an 8.33% chance of dying, would you be keen to try the odds? The same percentage conservatively applied to business and economy would have the airline looking to re-book 5 business pax and 21 economy pax alternative flights on every 777 service.
I would think that smart policy would be as follows;
1. Overbook economy by 5-10 seats, from the 250+ there are bound to be tourists or similar who would enjoy an extra night at destination.
2. Overbook business by 2-3 seats, on the offchance that everyone turns up see point 3.
3. Underbook first by 2 seats, then if everyone turns up for business, and one first passenger (8.33% of the load) fails to show, you can upgrade 3 long term gold card pax as a goodwill gesture (rather than downgrading or offloading 3 business pax to try another airlines comparative service). As a 7 year LH Senator and 5 year SQ Solitaire I can confirm that I have been on the receipt of numerous upgrades for that very reason, indeed LH issues Senators an upgrade voucher per 50,000 miles flown, which can, as one option, be used at the gate if space is available. If on the offchance, the forecasts are perfect, then a little exclusivity with some empty seats in First does not go amiss in generating that vote winning ambience that keeps customers coming back. Except on BA of course when they will be quickly filled with staff travel, captains wife, cabin crews boy/girlfriends etc.
Once again, Beijing, one service a day, few other options, especially on a Friday, taking an 8.33% chance of a serious upset of a premium passenger is a bit reckless imho
I am not sure that I catch your logic. Full fare Y class, which is flexible, is considerably more expensive than than the non-refundable type. If they sold F tickets, non-refundable at the same percentage discount as they operate in Y class, I would say "hell yes !, give me more". As it is, with fares as they stand, my 90kg carcass is equivalent in average fare to 450kg's down the back, as well as 30kg of baggage vs. 110kg down the back. I would also imagine that the real estate takes up a little less space too, but real estate doesn't use 5x more fuel, check in time, baggage handlers, ticketing agents etc etc.
777 from Beijing has 12 seats in first, maybe +/-60 in business and probably 250+ in economy. Overbooking by 1 seat in First has an 8.33% chance of an upset, if I asked you to go for an operation in hospital which had an 8.33% chance of dying, would you be keen to try the odds? The same percentage conservatively applied to business and economy would have the airline looking to re-book 5 business pax and 21 economy pax alternative flights on every 777 service.
I would think that smart policy would be as follows;
1. Overbook economy by 5-10 seats, from the 250+ there are bound to be tourists or similar who would enjoy an extra night at destination.
2. Overbook business by 2-3 seats, on the offchance that everyone turns up see point 3.
3. Underbook first by 2 seats, then if everyone turns up for business, and one first passenger (8.33% of the load) fails to show, you can upgrade 3 long term gold card pax as a goodwill gesture (rather than downgrading or offloading 3 business pax to try another airlines comparative service). As a 7 year LH Senator and 5 year SQ Solitaire I can confirm that I have been on the receipt of numerous upgrades for that very reason, indeed LH issues Senators an upgrade voucher per 50,000 miles flown, which can, as one option, be used at the gate if space is available. If on the offchance, the forecasts are perfect, then a little exclusivity with some empty seats in First does not go amiss in generating that vote winning ambience that keeps customers coming back. Except on BA of course when they will be quickly filled with staff travel, captains wife, cabin crews boy/girlfriends etc.
Once again, Beijing, one service a day, few other options, especially on a Friday, taking an 8.33% chance of a serious upset of a premium passenger is a bit reckless imho
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Another quick question RSOman, when you say "other side of the fence" are you representative of management from an airline ? as your brief says "travel consultant" which traditionally would see you representing the passenger as your customer, not the airline as a service provider 
And PaddyinUK, your brief indicates cabin crew. I would have thought it very unusual that an airline gives sight of its P+L management decisions to those delivering the service. I am in a service industry, at fairly senior level (as you might guess from the F class travel), and I am certainly not familiar with "stretching revenue" , a phrase on its own, which hardly conveys an impression of integrity. At the end of the day, those making such business decisions are playing with your jobs !
And PaddyinUK, your brief indicates cabin crew. I would have thought it very unusual that an airline gives sight of its P+L management decisions to those delivering the service. I am in a service industry, at fairly senior level (as you might guess from the F class travel), and I am certainly not familiar with "stretching revenue" , a phrase on its own, which hardly conveys an impression of integrity. At the end of the day, those making such business decisions are playing with your jobs !
Last edited by rmac; 24th Sep 2006 at 16:17. Reason: additional information
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Hey Rmac
Thanks for reminding. Been a while since I posted last. Have modified my profile suitably!
How about the dedicated cabin crew, the superior food (with all the attendant wastages) ,cost of maintaining a lounge (even if shared) for one or two flights , and all those other "first" perks! Not exactly cheap aren't they? Plus the dedicated cabins which sometimes go half empty!
I guess in reality the overbooking would more or less have been twice or thrice the figure you mentioned for first (have you already gone into shock?).
May not be for all routes but certain routes certainly will qualify for the high overbooking!
Think about how many times you had to change that first class reservation 2 or 3 days before the intended travel date and then think how easy it is for the airline to fill up that high price seat you have let go at short notice? Will people travelling first class on BA take an airport chance if the flight is booked out 10 days back? No - ofcourse you will go to LX or AF or elsewhere for a "guaranteed seat.
Get real - nowadays every penny in revenue counts! Loyalty - well.. recent events have shown that that is a word which has lost its meaning !
If I were you I would still enjoy the first class when it is still available , overbooking or not! Dont expect it to last too much longer!
Thanks for reminding. Been a while since I posted last. Have modified my profile suitably!
How about the dedicated cabin crew, the superior food (with all the attendant wastages) ,cost of maintaining a lounge (even if shared) for one or two flights , and all those other "first" perks! Not exactly cheap aren't they? Plus the dedicated cabins which sometimes go half empty!
I guess in reality the overbooking would more or less have been twice or thrice the figure you mentioned for first (have you already gone into shock?).
May not be for all routes but certain routes certainly will qualify for the high overbooking!
Think about how many times you had to change that first class reservation 2 or 3 days before the intended travel date and then think how easy it is for the airline to fill up that high price seat you have let go at short notice? Will people travelling first class on BA take an airport chance if the flight is booked out 10 days back? No - ofcourse you will go to LX or AF or elsewhere for a "guaranteed seat.
Get real - nowadays every penny in revenue counts! Loyalty - well.. recent events have shown that that is a word which has lost its meaning !
If I were you I would still enjoy the first class when it is still available , overbooking or not! Dont expect it to last too much longer!
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rsoman, I rarely eat on board, normally either watch movies, read or sleep (mostly), my needs are guaranteed availability, not to have anyone else climbing over me, or trying to converse while I am trying to relax, and getting to my destination in a good frame of mind to either do good business (outbound) or be a good father to my kids (inbound).
My most valuable commodity is time, and the best use of it. The protection of my time is what I pay for more than any bottle of Dom Perignon.
I rarely cancel a flight at the last minute, if I cannot plan at least a week in advance I am not running my business very well from a strategic view.
Having said all that, I generally find that two class airlines try to make their business service a little special and if F goes it goes, but until then, maybe they should try harder !
My most valuable commodity is time, and the best use of it. The protection of my time is what I pay for more than any bottle of Dom Perignon.
I rarely cancel a flight at the last minute, if I cannot plan at least a week in advance I am not running my business very well from a strategic view.
Having said all that, I generally find that two class airlines try to make their business service a little special and if F goes it goes, but until then, maybe they should try harder !
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Write to BA and tell them what you think of the cr@p service you recieved. Being bumped in First is nothing but cr@p.
I am absolutely astonished considering how few seats there are in First, and how much the tickets cost that BA would dream of overbooking.
Just make sure BA are absolutely clear on your views of their cr@p service.
Sounds like you've been pretty polite about all this, I'm not sure I would.
I am absolutely astonished considering how few seats there are in First, and how much the tickets cost that BA would dream of overbooking.
Just make sure BA are absolutely clear on your views of their cr@p service.
Sounds like you've been pretty polite about all this, I'm not sure I would.
You guys have it easy
Flying Kras Air TU-154's internally in Russia (in a previous life) I often boarded the a/c to find.... shock horror... NO BUSINESS CLASS!!
Even though I had a Business class Ticket (3 times the price of Economy).
The Russians however can be truly f*****d up, and it only invoked mild surprise on my part. Of course, ask for a refund and they'd laugh in your face.
Flying Kras Air TU-154's internally in Russia (in a previous life) I often boarded the a/c to find.... shock horror... NO BUSINESS CLASS!!
Even though I had a Business class Ticket (3 times the price of Economy).
The Russians however can be truly f*****d up, and it only invoked mild surprise on my part. Of course, ask for a refund and they'd laugh in your face.