Why Does BA Have An Attitude Problem?
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PAXboy
Just to make it clear, I fly Air France a lot and the experience is usually fine - so I have nothing against them, but I also fly BA a lot too and the point I was making is that I have never received treatment like that in several hundred flights with BA and would be extremely surprised if I ever did.
Of course, sometimes you will find a slightly grumpy check in agent or CC, but colleagues arguing (and using foul language) in front of a customer and then leaving that customer without luggage overnight is something else altogether
BA (the airline), is in my experience very consistently professional in service delivery, despite the best efforts of BA (the business.)
Just to make it clear, I fly Air France a lot and the experience is usually fine - so I have nothing against them, but I also fly BA a lot too and the point I was making is that I have never received treatment like that in several hundred flights with BA and would be extremely surprised if I ever did.
Of course, sometimes you will find a slightly grumpy check in agent or CC, but colleagues arguing (and using foul language) in front of a customer and then leaving that customer without luggage overnight is something else altogether
BA (the airline), is in my experience very consistently professional in service delivery, despite the best efforts of BA (the business.)
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Well I flew United recently & in general found them okay. Being interested in aviation & chatty in disposition I've a habit of sometimes asking other people what airline they used & how they found them. I was surprised when a British couple told me they flew BA & one pax was allowed to destroy their whole flight for them without intervention or chastisement from the cabin crew. One, he stripped down to the waist, two, he was loud & using vulgar language, can't remember whether they said he was inebricated or not but giving the rest of behaviour it's not unlikely he was. I was surprised in this day & age post 9/11 that a pax could get away with such disruptive behaviour on an aircraft. I can guarantee you if I'd been on board, his ignorant behaviour would not have been let away with for long as one UAL pax found out very quickly.
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........the Dirty Tricks brigade
Funny.....the mastermind behind that team, the "Helpliners" as they were known, was one Barbara Cassini, who I believe is now in a rather senior position at EasyJet !!!
Does Sir Richard realise that, I wonder?
Oh gee, how awful.
it was sure lucky for that evil doer that you weren't on the flight.
Careful now, or Coconuts'll do you!
(That's how they used to castrate camels in the old days - two cocounts crashed against the poor animal's testimonials and....it was all over! Mind you, it didn't hurt - as long as you kept your thumbs out of the way!!!)
Last edited by bealine; 17th Nov 2003 at 15:12.
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This thread seems to have jumped a lot since I wanted to stick my nose into it but, I would, like to say as a Gold Card Holder who lives abroad"
1] I'm still waiting for my upgrade - even after 65 flights with BA and it's franchise's this year alone - I have not had one, and quite frankly I don't really expect one.
2] I believe service has declined over the last 10 years. The catering has deterioated, but I guess that's just the way the business has gone (as it's the same with KLM, Lufthansa and don't even mention Iberia & Alitalia)
3] You can't blame the crew - most BA crews still have their sense of humour and are very professional.
4] As a full fare paying PAX, I'd like one day to see a Senior BA Manager sat on a flight and speak with all the PAX - instead of one of those anonymous survey's which are never given to Frequent Flying PAX (or appear to be never given to us). I'm reading Ms Cassani's book about Go at the mo, she states that she regularly went on Go's flights to gauge customer opinion - whether it's accurate or not I think it's a good idea.
5] My BA Gold Card is worthless as it appears to mean nothing these days.
I fly three diffrent airlines to get to work in Kazakhstan - Arkia
BA 
and Astreaus 
By far the better service provider is surprisingly Astreaus, although I still prefer my Club World seat.
1] I'm still waiting for my upgrade - even after 65 flights with BA and it's franchise's this year alone - I have not had one, and quite frankly I don't really expect one.
2] I believe service has declined over the last 10 years. The catering has deterioated, but I guess that's just the way the business has gone (as it's the same with KLM, Lufthansa and don't even mention Iberia & Alitalia)
3] You can't blame the crew - most BA crews still have their sense of humour and are very professional.
4] As a full fare paying PAX, I'd like one day to see a Senior BA Manager sat on a flight and speak with all the PAX - instead of one of those anonymous survey's which are never given to Frequent Flying PAX (or appear to be never given to us). I'm reading Ms Cassani's book about Go at the mo, she states that she regularly went on Go's flights to gauge customer opinion - whether it's accurate or not I think it's a good idea.
5] My BA Gold Card is worthless as it appears to mean nothing these days.
I fly three diffrent airlines to get to work in Kazakhstan - Arkia
BA and Astreaus By far the better service provider is surprisingly Astreaus, although I still prefer my Club World seat.
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Final 3 - Yikes! Did you mention this to any other AF people?
Aksai - don't know about BA but a mate is an EI gold holder - when they lost his bags during the Glasgow snowstorm in 2001 no sign for a few days. He rang the gold reservations line and said "I know this isn't lost bags but I'm in deep sh!t" - sorted pdq, including a promise to refund expenses on emergency purchases.
All my TA flights involve an Aer Lingus run, so both of my WT+ upgrades were handed to me by EI staff at ORK, though maybe they were computer assigned. The J upgrade was during a blizzard at YYZ so they may have been packing them in to accommodate cancellations from previous flights. I do try to buy on ba.com and maybe that helps as they don't have to pay agent fees. I am still p!ssed about 25% miles - rather too deep a cut - but upgrades are a good way to keep me happy, and thus I tell my family to fly BA over EI or AC.
Aksai - don't know about BA but a mate is an EI gold holder - when they lost his bags during the Glasgow snowstorm in 2001 no sign for a few days. He rang the gold reservations line and said "I know this isn't lost bags but I'm in deep sh!t" - sorted pdq, including a promise to refund expenses on emergency purchases.
All my TA flights involve an Aer Lingus run, so both of my WT+ upgrades were handed to me by EI staff at ORK, though maybe they were computer assigned. The J upgrade was during a blizzard at YYZ so they may have been packing them in to accommodate cancellations from previous flights. I do try to buy on ba.com and maybe that helps as they don't have to pay agent fees. I am still p!ssed about 25% miles - rather too deep a cut - but upgrades are a good way to keep me happy, and thus I tell my family to fly BA over EI or AC.
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bealine:
Well, well, well, that is interesting. Although, I am fairly certain that she is not with EZY. When 3i took the money, she started the process and then ducked out. She took time out and wrote the book. She is now chair of the London bid to hold the Olympics at some point in the future. (Just to nudge this off-thread, I do hope they fail.)
When Cassani was running GOE, I got a free return trip MUC-STN at her instigation - and they had done nothing wrong to warrant it! I did not get to meet her and it's a story that I told in PPRuNe many moons ago.
I have not read the book Dirty Tricks, I think it would make me too angry. I have read enough to know that they were outside every law and any sense of decency.
I agree with F3G that the BA airline is fine, the BA mgmt are not.
Funny.....the mastermind behind that team, the "Helpliners" as they were known, was one Barbara Cassini, who I believe is now in a rather senior position at EasyJet !!!
When Cassani was running GOE, I got a free return trip MUC-STN at her instigation - and they had done nothing wrong to warrant it! I did not get to meet her and it's a story that I told in PPRuNe many moons ago.
I have not read the book Dirty Tricks, I think it would make me too angry. I have read enough to know that they were outside every law and any sense of decency.
I agree with F3G that the BA airline is fine, the BA mgmt are not.
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Okay, I stand corrected. I didn't know Barbara had gone when Go was absorbed into easyJet . The term "masterminded" was a little strong actually, Lord Marshall of Knightsbridge (plain old Colin Marshall in those days) dangled the puppet-strings and Barbara Cassani danced to Colin's tune to Sir Richard Branson's (and other carriers as well) detriment!
It was often whispered in dark corridors when Barbara was given the job of heading up "Go" that it was her reward for "services rendered" !!!
PAXboy, let your blood cool down! "Dirty Tricks" does make an interesting read.
From a BA insider's point of view, I can't get to grips with who, or what, actually turns the airline into the arrogant corporate animal it is. The people I work with are great and the management appear to be lacking in commercial awareness and communication skills, but they're not nasty people (not all of 'em anyway!) - so who or what destroys the airline???
Answers on a 160Gb hard disk please to..........
It was often whispered in dark corridors when Barbara was given the job of heading up "Go" that it was her reward for "services rendered" !!!
PAXboy, let your blood cool down! "Dirty Tricks" does make an interesting read.
From a BA insider's point of view, I can't get to grips with who, or what, actually turns the airline into the arrogant corporate animal it is. The people I work with are great and the management appear to be lacking in commercial awareness and communication skills, but they're not nasty people (not all of 'em anyway!) - so who or what destroys the airline???
Answers on a 160Gb hard disk please to..........
Too mean to buy a long personal title
I reckon that many observers would say that BA hasn't "turned into" an arrogant corporate animal - it has just never ceased being one even though it was privatised all those years ago. You get these comments every time there's a problem like the T1 walkouts - and otherwise inexplicable incidents like that make sense if you timewarp yourself back into the 1970s (management out of touch with the shop floor, staff feeling stitched up, etc. etc.)
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Bealine - The BA management are definitely arrogant, the staff may not be, but at the end of the day it's what your customer's think that counts and BA is service company.
BA has to consider whether it wants to keep it's loyal PAX, and many of regular PAX are very loyal - me included, or become an English version of Ryanair with some Frills.
When I lived in Nigeria I always wanted to fly BA simply because there was always a sense of relief about being in a civilised environment once again. The same today I always prefer to leave Tel Aviv with BA rather than El Al, Lufthansa, KLM or Air France, not for the same reasons though. I also realise that BA has to stay in business in what is becoming a cut throat environment - it's a fine balance.
MarkD - nice story, maybe one day my upgrade will come true !!
BA has to consider whether it wants to keep it's loyal PAX, and many of regular PAX are very loyal - me included, or become an English version of Ryanair with some Frills.
When I lived in Nigeria I always wanted to fly BA simply because there was always a sense of relief about being in a civilised environment once again. The same today I always prefer to leave Tel Aviv with BA rather than El Al, Lufthansa, KLM or Air France, not for the same reasons though. I also realise that BA has to stay in business in what is becoming a cut throat environment - it's a fine balance.
MarkD - nice story, maybe one day my upgrade will come true !!
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Mark D
No, I didn't tell anyone at AF, since I didn't realise that she had checked my case through until I was at Rome and it did not appear at the carousel.
Then I filed a 'lost baggage' report with Alitalia (another skyteam member), who investigated and explained that it is an IATA rule that baggage can be checked through if the next sector leaves in 24 hours or less. (They did, however, suggest that it was not too clever to do this without asking the customer when it was obvious that a nightstop would be involved.)
The prob. was that it would have taken 1-2 hours to retrieve the case from the transit area (this being circa 0000z.)
So not worth making an issue of at the end of the day.
No, I didn't tell anyone at AF, since I didn't realise that she had checked my case through until I was at Rome and it did not appear at the carousel.
Then I filed a 'lost baggage' report with Alitalia (another skyteam member), who investigated and explained that it is an IATA rule that baggage can be checked through if the next sector leaves in 24 hours or less. (They did, however, suggest that it was not too clever to do this without asking the customer when it was obvious that a nightstop would be involved.)
The prob. was that it would have taken 1-2 hours to retrieve the case from the transit area (this being circa 0000z.)
So not worth making an issue of at the end of the day.
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Just to update you, the internal Staff Forum has been focussing this week on "How British Airways can close the gap (ever-widening gulf actually!) between high passenger loads but falling revenue."
Strangely enough, I was reminded of this thread and have fed back a direct link (and if anyone who knows it reveals my true identity to BA management, I'm dead!!!) which I hope will help BA to return to the services that kept the likes of Aksai Oiler loyal to us!!!
I believe the falling revenues are a direct result of BA's (the company) attitudes and actions, which cause any company to tailspin:
1. Customers hacked off - go elsewhere.
2. Reduce prices, win customers back.
3. Cut costs, customers notice drop in service standards.
4. Go back to stage 1!
As suggestions to get 'em going, I've suggested BA should make its mind up whether it wants to take on easyJet and Ryanair head to head or totally divorce itself from them by giving far superior quality - on the promise that passengers will pay slightly higher fares if they can physically see the benefits the extra cost brings. (I'm thinking of Mr X who travels from Milford Haven at 02.00 hrs to LGW every other week for the early Frankfurt flight and Mr Y who travels from Truro weekly and have lost their traditional English breakfasts - but still pay the same fares as before!)
Aksai Oiler, perceptively, stated what I've suspected for some time - we're becoming a half-way house between no-frills and full-service which nobody really appreciates! (Low spending pax expect full BA service of yesterday and feel cheated when they don't get it, high spending pax aren't receiving the catering and service they got yesterday and feel cheated - lose/lose all round!)
We also need to get our Senior Management to go walkabout! Rod Eddington needs to sit in 33B or 34J and talk to "those what pays us our dosh!" I note on Continental's Flyer Talk pages that their CEO does just that on a regular basis at their Houston Hub!
Somehow, with the stuffed shirts on the BA Board, I think I'm breaking wind against thunder!!!
Thank you, Aksai Oiler, Globaliser et al who have remained loyal through thick and thin! May your God reward you with seats at the "sharp end"!
Strangely enough, I was reminded of this thread and have fed back a direct link (and if anyone who knows it reveals my true identity to BA management, I'm dead!!!) which I hope will help BA to return to the services that kept the likes of Aksai Oiler loyal to us!!!
I believe the falling revenues are a direct result of BA's (the company) attitudes and actions, which cause any company to tailspin:
1. Customers hacked off - go elsewhere.
2. Reduce prices, win customers back.
3. Cut costs, customers notice drop in service standards.
4. Go back to stage 1!
As suggestions to get 'em going, I've suggested BA should make its mind up whether it wants to take on easyJet and Ryanair head to head or totally divorce itself from them by giving far superior quality - on the promise that passengers will pay slightly higher fares if they can physically see the benefits the extra cost brings. (I'm thinking of Mr X who travels from Milford Haven at 02.00 hrs to LGW every other week for the early Frankfurt flight and Mr Y who travels from Truro weekly and have lost their traditional English breakfasts - but still pay the same fares as before!)
Aksai Oiler, perceptively, stated what I've suspected for some time - we're becoming a half-way house between no-frills and full-service which nobody really appreciates! (Low spending pax expect full BA service of yesterday and feel cheated when they don't get it, high spending pax aren't receiving the catering and service they got yesterday and feel cheated - lose/lose all round!)
We also need to get our Senior Management to go walkabout! Rod Eddington needs to sit in 33B or 34J and talk to "those what pays us our dosh!" I note on Continental's Flyer Talk pages that their CEO does just that on a regular basis at their Houston Hub!
Somehow, with the stuffed shirts on the BA Board, I think I'm breaking wind against thunder!!!
Thank you, Aksai Oiler, Globaliser et al who have remained loyal through thick and thin! May your God reward you with seats at the "sharp end"!
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I understand PAXboy's comments about the dirty tricks era, but BA remains my favourite carrier for a number of reasons; the main one is their people, and I'd like to add a few words of support in this thread. I've never encountered anything less than good service, even when it is in a bag. Other reasons are the excellent on-line check-in and an incident last year where I was allowed to run to the gate although *very* late 
That sort of thing creates a lot of goodwill, and BA was lucky that they were handing out questionnaires on that flight.
Many companies succeed despite the management rather than because of it. Many of you will know better than I if that's true of BA.
Maybe I should add "Dirty Tricks" to my Christmas list...
That sort of thing creates a lot of goodwill, and BA was lucky that they were handing out questionnaires on that flight.Many companies succeed despite the management rather than because of it. Many of you will know better than I if that's true of BA.
Maybe I should add "Dirty Tricks" to my Christmas list...
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Hi Bealine
The only beef I have about BA is the Executive Club, which drives rational pax away from the airline.
I fly about 2 sectors a week on average, mostly around Europe.
As I work in the professional services sector, the usual convention is that the customers travel policy applies. Most of my customers are large companies (household names) and the policy is typically less than 5 hours economy, more than 5 business or enhanced economy.
With BA, this gets me airmiles (which I don't really want, since heaven is spending time at home), but no priority check in or lounge access.
With Skyteam, 30 sectors per year earns a gold card that gives both the above (although I have a Priority Pass for lounge access anyway.)
You may be surprised (or not) that the difference between using economy check in and business check in is a very powerful incentive to the frequent flyer :-)
I still rate BA as the most consistently professional airline I use (although LH are pretty good too), but get fed up of receiving emails from the Exec Club manager telling me how great it is, when in fact it's a sales prevention club
Because I travel heavily to France (where Priority Pass does not work too well) and the Czech Republic, Skyteam will get about 40 sectors this year from me, whereas BA could have had those.
I realise that I'm only one pax, but the compound effect of the policy across the exec club membership (and beyond) on the BA business must be significant.
If you think anyone in BA would be interested in this info, please PM their email address to me and I'll be pleased to point it out direct. Or PM me for my 'real' indentity and they can contact me...
The only beef I have about BA is the Executive Club, which drives rational pax away from the airline.
I fly about 2 sectors a week on average, mostly around Europe.
As I work in the professional services sector, the usual convention is that the customers travel policy applies. Most of my customers are large companies (household names) and the policy is typically less than 5 hours economy, more than 5 business or enhanced economy.
With BA, this gets me airmiles (which I don't really want, since heaven is spending time at home), but no priority check in or lounge access.
With Skyteam, 30 sectors per year earns a gold card that gives both the above (although I have a Priority Pass for lounge access anyway.)
You may be surprised (or not) that the difference between using economy check in and business check in is a very powerful incentive to the frequent flyer :-)
I still rate BA as the most consistently professional airline I use (although LH are pretty good too), but get fed up of receiving emails from the Exec Club manager telling me how great it is, when in fact it's a sales prevention club
Because I travel heavily to France (where Priority Pass does not work too well) and the Czech Republic, Skyteam will get about 40 sectors this year from me, whereas BA could have had those.
I realise that I'm only one pax, but the compound effect of the policy across the exec club membership (and beyond) on the BA business must be significant.
If you think anyone in BA would be interested in this info, please PM their email address to me and I'll be pleased to point it out direct. Or PM me for my 'real' indentity and they can contact me...
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Final 3 Greens: Have you had a look at the Qantas Frequent Flyer scheme? You will earn status credits as well as miles in economy. If you fly 40 short haul full fare economy tickets a year on BA you would easily earn enough credits to get priority check in and lounge access when flying BA (and all the other oneworld benefits from the middle tier). There's a technical requirement to fly 4 QF sectors a year to qualify for any status but that isn't in fact generally enforced.
bealine: I stick around because the service is generally good, and usually better than most others, but for me the service is in some respects good only because QF is (literally) infinitely more generous with status than BA on the fares that I pay. It happens that being a member of QF happens to work very well for me.
But in discount economy, the difference between flying BA without status and, say, *A with status would almost certainly have me switching over to them (like F3G's reasoning). Before the BA/QF/OW FF alliance thing started working for me, the balance wasn't always in BA's favour. Management really need to have a think about this part of the EC.
bealine: I stick around because the service is generally good, and usually better than most others, but for me the service is in some respects good only because QF is (literally) infinitely more generous with status than BA on the fares that I pay. It happens that being a member of QF happens to work very well for me.
But in discount economy, the difference between flying BA without status and, say, *A with status would almost certainly have me switching over to them (like F3G's reasoning). Before the BA/QF/OW FF alliance thing started working for me, the balance wasn't always in BA's favour. Management really need to have a think about this part of the EC.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Well, then, 40 discount economy BA short hauls a year would certainly get you the priority check in, and then the equivalent of £100 a year for Qantas Club membership would get you lounge access on top. It's how I did it for years - and how I was resigned to doing it forever - until I suddenly found myself popping over into the next tier one year.
It may not make sense for your travel patterns, but it certainly did for me as BA/QF covers almost everything that I want to do.
It may not make sense for your travel patterns, but it certainly did for me as BA/QF covers almost everything that I want to do.
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As a staff member thank you for the last vote of confidence. BA is one of the finest airlines that you can fly on. Despite many problems from exterior sources beyond our control and too many generated from within, BA has continued to give a consistent product at a good price.
BA has the best trained Flight and Cabin Crew and continues to invest in its ground services. Our engineering is second to none.
Presently BA at times appears to lack direction but be assured once we undergo the next round of cuts we will be back on course in the next coiuple of years.
BA has the best trained Flight and Cabin Crew and continues to invest in its ground services. Our engineering is second to none.
Presently BA at times appears to lack direction but be assured once we undergo the next round of cuts we will be back on course in the next coiuple of years.
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bealine
One of the snippets a few years ago that maintained my confidence in Virgin Atlantic: A VS pax found himself sitting next to RB and his wife in 'Y', whilst LHR to HKG.
RB is quoted: "We decided at the last minute to witness the handover of Hongkong. Whilst we were able to get an hotel room, we were too late to book seats on the flight."
How easy would it be for the top boss to pre-empt check in for Upper or P.E.?? I suspect 'all too easy' would be the case.
Once again - I love flying BA, the service is always good and the maintenance programme fills me with confidence. Pity about the management but then, you can say that about almost any major company/organisation. The larger they get, generally, the worse they get.
Rod Eddington needs to sit in 33B or 34J and talk to "those what pays us our dosh!" I note on Continental's Flyer Talk pages that their CEO does just that on a regular basis at their Houston Hub!
RB is quoted: "We decided at the last minute to witness the handover of Hongkong. Whilst we were able to get an hotel room, we were too late to book seats on the flight."
How easy would it be for the top boss to pre-empt check in for Upper or P.E.?? I suspect 'all too easy' would be the case.
Once again - I love flying BA, the service is always good and the maintenance programme fills me with confidence. Pity about the management but then, you can say that about almost any major company/organisation. The larger they get, generally, the worse they get.