Why Does BA Have An Attitude Problem?
 

I have recently had dealings with BA as a PAX.

Of all the airlines I have dealt with they must have the worst attitude and no concept of customer services.

I have spoken to many people who now avoid BA.

So can any one tell me where their bad attitude come from and why in the modern carrier market don't they change.

I too avoid BA going back to a terrible sequence of flights back in 2001, chaos at Gatwick North terminal etc.

I know one shouldn't address this problem with a broad brush and tar every one of BA's personnel, many do care about their company and their passengers. Bealine will probably answer your question as he is admirable in supporting his company. It has been said that BA's LGW staff are better but unfortunately you cant expect a traveller to say 'well if it is BA LGW I'll use BA and if not I wont'

However it is the public actions of a few that ruin the image of a company very quickly amongst the travelling public, which is then very hard to get back. Whether those 'few' be senior managers or the 'rogue' check-in and passenger handling agents (who seem more than a 'few' to me but still).

I have had very pleasant staff from another airline at Gatwick consistantly telling me of their woes when I travel, underpaid, too few staff etc. About 10 years ago I could have counted on 2 hands all those airlines in the UK that people enjoyed working for and said were a good friendly company, now I can count none...

Unfortunately this has become endemic in our industry and as was being discussed on the VS Sarcastic Remark thread, is not in keeping with a service industry. But the airlines get away with it and it appears that it is not just the staff but the passengers who suffer directly and also indirectly.

PS. Just going to add that the trend rightly or wrongly over the last 10-15 years has been consolidation. No more smaller airlines which are absorbed into the larger carriers. Certainly from experience I have found the general staff atmosphere and customer service in a smaller company is so much better for so many reasons and that they are easier as management to run, control, communicate and get get feedback from...

Thats interesting Boss Raptor. It is the same response I have heard so much in regards to BA. It is a shame as it is the UK flag carrier. Great advert for UK business!

I am a captain on a small airline (no names) and I am very keen on the idea that the clients pay may wages! Perhaps thats becausen I owned my own business before I got into this game.

Goo customer services cost nothing. I have always found this from SAS. (Which I don't work for by the way, wish I did).

I never had any problems with BA in the past while traveling with them...

Any airline has it's share of problems...

just my 2 cents.

I have found both ends of the spectrum with BA. IMHO, I have put it down to a crew thing. Sometimes you get a good crew who can't do enough for you, othertimes, for what ever reason the high standard their colleagues have set aren't met.

I've only once had a problem with a BA ground staff. I have found most of Nigel's pals to be very helpful.

But I have noticed:
1. High staff turnover in small stations, where it is noticeable.
2. Once when there were serious multiple flight delays at LHR4, the check-in staff did all the right stuff for me. Then she stood up and leaned over the check-in desk to pat me on the back. No-one does this naturally to a stranger, especially when both are under an element of stress. This was unnatural, pure management rubbish. I felt sorry for her.

answer=42

Boss R.I agree that service is down but not that it is endemic to the airline industry alone! If this was the Professional Sea Captains Rumour Network, or the one for Desk Top Computing - the statement would be the same.

As a freelance Telecommunications Consultant, I have been inside many different organisations in the past 13 years. Ranging through retail, banking, oil, transport, agri-business and more.

There is not one where moral is high. There is not one where people feel that they want to give of their best. There is not one where you get some great staff who really turn in the goods that make up for those who are just trying to get through the day.

It is, I suggest, the way of life in the UK at the start of the 21st century.

On a pedantic note:
G-FO 69
They are not the flag carrier. The term (as I understand it) is used by state owned airlines. They are, of course, the largest British airline but they and other's carry the Union flag. Of course, don't ask the PR people of BA, as they are convinced that they are still the flag carrier!

Airlines have replaced the navy (Royal and Merchant) as the thing that politicians like to think of as 'theirs'. :=

Perhaps it's just me, but I've been flying with BA short-, medium- and long-haul for nearly 25 years and I haven't noticed any dramatic decline in service (although I'm sure they're subject to the same "do more with less" management morons that afflict the rest of the western world). Come to think of it, I've never had cause to complain about the service on any flight (not just BA, though I exclude Aeroflot and CAAC where complaining wouldn't have done me much good :p ). Sometimes the food is cr@p and sometimes I don't get a window seat :{, but apart from that I've never had surly service or any reasonable request refused (I try not to make unreasonable ones).

With my limited experience of VS, I like them too, they just don't happen to fly to many of the places I go.

What am I doing wrong? Please advise :D

Thank you for the votes of confidence from some of the faithfull. Overall our standard is not bad at all and to prove that even the crews are happy to have a pre flight drink.

You think BA is bad
 

All;

Due to my job in the 1990's, I had over 1 million miles in my United Account at one time. That's how much I flew. Towards the end of the decade I moved to Phoenix for a new job assignment. I flew United of course.

Like many PAX, I had endured my share of delays, good flights and bad flights beforehand and believe or not...SH*T happens. The straw that broke the camel's back was when the United pilots decided they wouldn't fly overtime unless they got a new contract. In a short period of time, 3 years to be precise, United went into bankruptcy. Good !!

The reason I am telling you this is because i booked my15 year old son on a 13:30pm flight from Denver to Phoenix. He was checked in and given a boarding pass and went to the gate. There was no plane however due to lack of pilots.

He called me and I paid top dollar on about 1 hour's notice to fly him down on Frontier...different terminal, tough navigating for a 15 year old who doesn't know airports.

For that reason and that reason alone, I haven't flown United since. I don't want their miles. All I will ever remember is their worthless customer service. It was absolutely no surprise when they went belly-up; They deserved it for the way they treated their passengers. I'D fly BA anyday over United.

Newark

I've looked in on this thread a few times, but find it very hard to reply in defence of BA to a "generalised" topic.

If you advise me what specific areas of BA's Customer Service have let you down, G-FoxtrotOscar 69, I'll see if I can shed some light on the subject?

On general customer service issues, we probably have as many accolades on file as we have complaints. Unfortunately, things go wrong sometimes for a variety of reasons and I'll set out below some issues which can cloud the horizon:

1. We all have "off" days! Perhaps the person with whom you came into contact was suffering! No excuse I know, but humans is humans and our personal feelings have a bearing on how we interact with others, whatever industry you happen to be in and no matter how hard we try to exercise self-control!

2. BA, because of its Nationalised heritage, has rules and regulations to cover every eventuality - whether it be changing a "V" class ticket or delivering a baby by Caesarian section at 36000 feet during turbuence! Because BA management have very rigid interpretation of rules and treat the staff in an appalling way should they dare to use initiative, you will find almost no flexibility. On a positive note, the very rigidity of the staff in sticking to the "rules and regs" means that during an emergency situation, you're probably with the safest possible airline because the staff will carry out the correct procedures to the letter!!!

3. You arrive at the airport nice and relaxed after a morning meeting. You've had breakfast, a couple of coffee breaks and you feel all's well with the world. The check-in agent with whom you have first contact, will probably have been on duty since 5.30 am and have dealt with 2-300 people by lunch-time - probably 5% of these customers will have caused emotively-charged situations of potential conflict (eg excess baggage, overweight/oversized cabin baggage, attempts to change non-changeable tickets, carrying prohibited articles, not having correct visas etc etc)

You are a customer, paying the airline Good British Pounds and you deserve a fresh faced, polite greeting! Believe me, sometimes it's hard for us to deliver!!!

Let me leave you, for the moment, with a couple of recent anecdotes which may help you to understand some of our work attitudes:

1. How to (Almost) Destroy Anglo-American Relations and Give Bealine his UB40

A few weeks ago, I boarded our mid-morning Edinburgh service. A very smart, but obviously tired, American lady handed me her Boarding Card and US Diplomatic Service Passport. "Please can I have your flight ticket" Bealine asked. The Lady replied "It's an E-Ticket - at least it was when I left Houston last night!" Bealine allowed her to proceed on board and rang our ticket supervisor to "associate" the E-Ticket.

"You'll have to offload her and get her back to the ticket desk! She hasn't paid her US$20 change fee. She can't travel until it's been paid" (about £12) I'm sure all PPrune readers would agree it's absolutely bloody ridicuous to make the lady miss her flight for such a paltry amount - especially as she probably wasn't even aware it was owed!

Bealine just put the phone down and pretended he hadn't heard - after all, what's £12 against the £500 fares she'd already paid!

Anyway, a few hours later and Bealine was challenged by the management and informed he would probably be "on a disciplinary" - to which he drew a £20 note from his wallet and stuffed it into said manager's pocket before removing his ID card and throwing it on the desk.

Fortunately for all concerned, common-sense eventually prevailed and Bealine still has his job and hopefully might get to collect his pension!

2. How to (Under) Value Your Staff and Get the Most From Them!

A friend and colleague celebrated 25 years service with BA a few days ago. She had had a personal invitation from the General Manager (BA-LGW) in her handbag for over a week before the presentation. On the day, she asked to be released from check-in in order to attend......."Oh,I don't know," said the supervisor,
"We'll try and spare you later, but I can't guarantee it!"

Anyhow, she was released for half an hour and was taken into a small office, obviously laid out for a meeting later. The General Manager entered, trying vainly to hide his packed-lunch bag, and mumbled something about my colleague's working life - and it became very clear he wasn't talking about her at all, but about someone else. Two minutes later, he said "Well, we'll have a quick photoshoot and move on swiftly!"

Five minutes to mark 25 years service - no gold watch, just a couple of vouchers to spend in a catalogue suspiciously like Argos!

Somehow, I think Sir Tom Farmer of Kwik-Fit would have marked the occasion a tad better - but then, I've never heard complaints about Kwik-Fit's Customer Service either!!!

Back in the early 90's, I definitely found BA long haul pretty poor, with a very 'take it or leave it' attitude. These days, I find it very different, with a real bias towards good customer service, both long and short haul. LGW are especially good. Although the only time I flew BCal into there, it was two flights too many - for me, that was a real crap airline for service! (Also for a friend who flew them to Libya several times)

Of course, it may be that having a BA Gold card helps........

You see enough bullsh*t though, that you can tell there are far too many managers compared to the people up the sharp end - and the sharp end people who matter as far as customers are concerned.

I'm getting withdrawal symptoms - I haven't been on a 'plane this month, and probably won't go anywhere now until early December - and that's likely to be from LGW on BA!

In response to the BA crew who have replied I do not beleive the problem lies with individuals. There is a corp. attitude problem.

I find the executive frequent flyers menbers club (I have a gold card by the way) customer relations line shocking. I was told I do not understand how the industry works once. I did point out that I hold an ATPL(A).

I have a strange feeling the problem is based on 2 direct problems:-

1). Used to be flag carrier!

2) Lord King:mad:

BA could realy do with being run by someone like ......... Richard Branson:E for a few years.

I feel sorry for the staff and even more son after hearing about the staff member with 25 yrs service.

I will never complain about BA again. I will complain about BA's bosses.

Having read all this I have to say I don't think it's just BA - All modernday 'management' seems to work this way . On my 25 years service (in ATC) I was called in to the boss who said - "Normally we have champagne on these occasions but I don't have any today , 25 years in the same job , some would say that is a lack of initiative"!!! It went on from there!
Bloody 'managers' no time for them.

You see Bealine cares and is very aware of the passenger/customer service issue :ok:

Shame about the penpushers in your system who seem intent on screwing up your company Bealine...lack of contact, communication and empathy with both staff and travelling public I think...

Promote Bealine to head the new 'Dept. For Ensuring Company Personnel, Communicate and Empathise With Other Staff and Our Customers'

:cool:

Thank you, Boss Raptor, and fellow PPruners for your support!

Privately, I often wonder if we have one or two people at senior level who are hell-bent on sabotaging our company - it often appears we are committing commercial suicide at times!!!

As one of our Engineers remarked, when questioned about the decision to ground Concorde....."The present BA Board know the cost of everything and the value of nothing!"

You need to unsterstand that there are two BAs

#1 - the airline

#2 - the business

In my experience as a frequent traveller, BA are well above the average, on the ground and in the air, for service.
There's always the matter of chemistry between individuals, but generally I have a good experience.

I've never been treated like I was by Air France at CDG the other week, when flying to Rome - the very stroppy check in agent didn't want to be there and had a row with her supervisor about her break times in front of me .... very professional #1 - I suppose they assumed that I couldn't speak French - very professional #2 and then the agent checked my bags through to the final destination without telling me, despite it being self evident that I was nightstopping (arriving at 21:30 departing at 13:30 the next day) - very professional #3

On the other hand, there is the BA business which suffers from the Peter principle as much as anyone.

bealine

keep up the good work, everything I hear about AC makes me keep flying BA.

Score so far:
BA Blue membership
10 UK-Canada sectors booked as Y/M
2 x W sector upgrade :D
1 x J sector upgrade :ok:

here's hoping for another on the 22nd! (greedy sod aren't I)

final 3 greens

did you greet the check in staff at CDG in French or just hand over the ticket? I prefer to "catch" check-in staff with honey rather than vinegar :D

Mark D

Please explain the process for greeting two people who are having a heated argument when you arrive at the desk, are calling each other a series of unrepeatable words and who choose not to acknowledge your presence because their dispute is more important to them than your wish to check in?

BTW, I'm a Skyteam gold card holder, which is meant to mean enhanced service. Compare this to your good experiences with BA as a Blue level card holder (i.e. bottom tier.)

Although I can't always fly 'my' airline, when I do, they are consistent, professional and a good advertisement for the UK - keep it up Bealine and co :D

With regards to upgrades by FFM card holders ... we have discussed this before in here. Friends of mine that belong to BA Exec, but live overseas, land up with more upgrades than those of us that are based here.

One of my friends has his Exec card based overseas with a friend and often gets better redemption deals and so forth.

As to 'best airline' or BA's problem? A simple example, in this thread F3G was highly irritated by AF, whereas, in a thread the other week, someone was singing their praises on all fronts.

In a business that has hundreds of flights each day, each staffed by differnt people of different backgrounds and cultures and used by different people (of ditto), consensus is going to be difficult to find.

I know that BA offer very high quality service and am always delighted to board their aircraft. However, due to the attitude of the management and the Dirty Tricks brigade, they will remain my second choice of carrier.