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S211 Down Port Phillip Bay

Old 21st Nov 2023, 20:12
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ahwalk01
The ejection seat I sat on in my parachute had 'EJECTION SEAT INOP' plastered on it, so we may be splitting hairs here
INOP doesnt mean the explosive hazard is not present. Though I would think they coud sort that issue out in a 1 minute conversation with who ever maintains the aircraft
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 20:29
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Originally Posted by MJA Chaser
INOP doesnt mean the explosive hazard is not present. Though I would think they coud sort that issue out in a 1 minute conversation with who ever maintains the aircraft
True but if there is no way for it to function surely it remains inert.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 20:57
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Originally Posted by ahwalk01
True but if there is no way for it to function surely it remains inert.
Not necessarily. Inop could mean no rocket motor fitted due to the original being timex, but you still have the guillotines and other not-so-nice bits in it that may still be servicable. Inert always = Inop, but not the other way around....
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 23:39
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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On the subject of ejection seats, can someone please explain the term "sear"?
Prof Google isn't helpful. I gather it's some sort of igniter.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 23:54
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My understanding is that the 'sear' is a little slide-out piece of metal activated by a linkage or cable that lets a spring-loaded plunger strike the explosive charge. The Macchi MB326 seat had 7 safety pins that were removed before takeoff and one of them was a 'sear' pin to prevent the main gun from firing. That one and a coupla others were hard to get to so the 'groundies' removed them and handed them to the pilot after strap-in.

This is out of the cobwebs of my brain, so happy to be corrected.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 00:58
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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So was "BD" the pilot of the surviving jet? I noticed that the Guardian article referred to the Qantas spokesperson stating:

“The news has shocked the Qantas and Jetstar pilot communities and everyone’s thoughts are with these families,” the spokesperson said.
I'm interested to know why the Jetstar pilot community would be shocked.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 02:02
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Re @roundsounds comment about the “thoughtless idiot” guy:

Who - my non-hero? Don’t think so, his FB profile was full of stupid memes, conspiracy theory crap and general unpleasantness. Charming, not.

But I agree with the other poster who praised the quals, skills etc of the Roulettes’ first female pilot (1999) among her other notable achievements.

Last edited by SLFstu; 22nd Nov 2023 at 02:08. Reason: Added poster’s handle who I’m replying to
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 02:21
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-...ains/103135486
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 03:10
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fris B. Fairing
On the subject of ejection seats, can someone please explain the term "sear"?
Prof Google isn't helpful. I gather it's some sort of igniter.
The S-211 Flight Manual (details earlier for FREE download) may have more info however these two GIFs give most of the SEARing info for MB10 ejection seat with canopy breaker horns for occupants to eject through the canopy. The MB326H seat was a Mk.4 Martin-Baker with canopy breakers on the top of the seat in case the canopy did not separate. Then an interesting TIDBIT about the canopy ON THE GROUND when it cannot be opened. Heaven Forfend. Early MB326Hs did not have the CANOPY BREAKER TOOL wot was developed when a fatal crash caused by - canopy opening in flight - gave a wake up call about side opening freakin' canopies. [Also the canopy lock lever was redesigned.]




Last edited by SpazSinbad; 22nd Nov 2023 at 04:23. Reason: lock lever redesign
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 03:21
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Originally Posted by Pearly White
There but for the grace of God go I.

It is difficult for families to articulate their grief at times like this. Aviators will often reflect that a fellow aviator died doing what they loved and surely that is the case here for both Stephen and James. Contrary to what some have posted, I think we all respect our fellow professionals and their pursuit of the exhilaration of flight whatever the platform and whatever the mission. RIP.

High Flight

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth,
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds, --and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of --Wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air...
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark or even eagle flew --
And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.


John Gillespie Magee, Jr

Last edited by Chronic Snoozer; 22nd Nov 2023 at 03:38.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 05:37
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SpazSinbad and Capt Dart
Many thanks for that explanation.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 11:26
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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anyone can fly but not necessarily safely it seems
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 12:27
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anyone can fly but not necessarily safely it seems
I'm tipping you didn't know Stephen? While the title of the show was probably tempting fate there is clear evidence that he surrounded himself with expertise (the HOO and other Instructors). He didn't skimp on his own training and obviously resourced his operation well. I doubt whether you'd have any idea on the safety aspects of this operation.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 18:14
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Early MB326Hs did not have the CANOPY BREAKER TOOL wot was developed when a fatal crash caused by - canopy opening in flight - gave a wake up call about side opening freakin' canopies. [Also the canopy lock lever was redesigned.]
SPAZ, we had an interesting demo at 2FTS in 1978 when a test was done on this canopy breaking tool. An unserviceable canopy was due to be tossed, so a test was devised.

Leroy the Boy was kitted up in full rig, helmet, mask etc and strapped into the seat, the canopy closed and locked, and "GO!"
He grabbed the tool, and started punching at the perspex. And punching. ...and...punching... and no damage was apparent. He ran out of puff with right hand, switched to left hand, tried over head swing, uppercut swing, and after a rest and around 7 minutes of punching, a small hole appeared top right. Lots more effort to enlarge the hole, puff puff, and finally a hole big enough for him to wriggle through was made and he squirmed out. Sadly, no film was recorded of this.

We all stood around, thinking that this magical tool was little use if he was on fire. Even less use if airborne and trying to get out before bumping into the ground.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 18:40
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie
SPAZ, we had an interesting demo at 2FTS in 1978 when a test was done on this canopy breaking tool. An unserviceable canopy was due to be tossed, so a test was devised.

Leroy the Boy was kitted up in full rig, helmet, mask etc and strapped into the seat, the canopy closed and locked, and "GO!"
He grabbed the tool, and started punching at the perspex. And punching. ...and...punching... and no damage was apparent. He ran out of puff with right hand, switched to left hand, tried over head swing, uppercut swing, and after a rest and around 7 minutes of punching, a small hole appeared top right. Lots more effort to enlarge the hole, puff puff, and finally a hole big enough for him to wriggle through was made and he squirmed out. Sadly, no film was recorded of this.

We all stood around, thinking that this magical tool was little use if he was on fire. Even less use if airborne and trying to get out before bumping into the ground.
Heheh. Thanks - good to know - I'm glad I did not have to use it but very pleased the redesign of the canopy lock system was SAFE.

Scroll down to TWO pages of this 'PDF seen online' here for the 'MB326H open canopy in flight' (amended) story [original written by Grahame Higgs ex RAN ATC then RAAF] THE LOSS OF MACCHI A7-039:
"...On the 11th August 1970, Macchi A7-039 was returning to RAAF Gin Gin following an early instrument flying training sortie. As the aircraft came through initial (?? turning finals perhaps - tb) for Rwy 08, the canopy was seen to separate from the aircraft about halfway down the runway. A7-039 continued on to pitch just past the control tower and to impact in a clear patch of ground adjacent to the NDB. Unfortunately we lost both of the crew, the instructor in the front seat was incapacitated by the canopy departing in flight and the student in the back seat remained with the aircraft. The procedure in vogue at the time permitted the student in the rear cockpit under the instrument flying hood to slide the hood back at the end of the instrument sortie to take advantage of the visual approach and landing. In this instance there is a possibility that the student while sliding back the hood, (popularly known as “The Bag”) accidentally bumped open the canopy release handle...

...As a result of the loss of A7-039, the locking mechanism for the Macchi was redesigned and a clever cam device was introduced which eliminated accidental operation. In addition, the rear seat pilot under “the bag” would no longer slide the hood back for landing. It did mean however that in the event of ejection with the hood in place, the canopy had to be jettisoned first. When jettisoning the Macchi canopy both sides were released simultaneously which allowed it to clear the aircraft cleanly...."
Microsoft Word - Page15.doc (austradesecure.com)

Last edited by SpazSinbad; 22nd Nov 2023 at 19:01. Reason: + txt
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 19:43
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LONG STORY about RAAF Canopy Breaker KNIFE history (not in Vampires - crow bar behind right hand instructor seat):
Radschool Association Magazine - Vol 51. Page 16
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 21:21
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Originally Posted by Mr Mossberg
I'm tipping you didn't know Stephen? While the title of the show was probably tempting fate there is clear evidence that he surrounded himself with expertise (the HOO and other Instructors). He didn't skimp on his own training and obviously resourced his operation well. I doubt whether you'd have any idea on the safety aspects of this operation.
Plenty of us here are ex-military QFIs who know full well the intricacies of formation flying. If I were either of the two crew in Viper 1, I’d count my lucky stars and walk away from this entire operation.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 21:36
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I doubt whether you'd have any idea on the safety aspects of this operation.
I would suggest that the safety aspects of the operation will be examined during the investigation seeing as they just had a fatal mid-air collision.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 21:46
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Thumbs up S211 Down Port Phillip Bay

Hey Captain Dart
MB326H before takeoff checklist
1 - CANOPY - Closed and locked, cam on red, hanldle stowed, lanyard on, light off, Check rear
2 - PINS 6 front, check 5 rear
Its been 40 years since my last Macchi QFI sortie at 2FTS so that may be a bit cloudy as well!!
Regards
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 21:57
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TS, I think you are right re the pins. Can't remember why the difference between front and back; maybe the canopy?

Why can I remember 'Speed below 150, speed brake in, landing gear down, three wheels, flasher out, fuel xxxxx threshold speed 105' but I can't remember what I had for dinner 2 nights ago???
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