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S211 Down Port Phillip Bay

Old 20th Nov 2023, 05:06
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Originally Posted by spinex
Nope, just the meeja getting the story crossed up again. The water is apparently around 20m deep where the bits of wreckage were found.
Yep.. on a muddy bottom - mostly silt.

There's an eyewitness report floating around from on board a yacht up near Sandringham who saw the jets fly over and "nearly hit a helicopter".

Probably just an optical illusion given how many people were up flying yesterday, but was there any other traffic in close proximity at the time that might have resulted in momentary pilot distraction?? I doubt they were going slowly.

Last edited by PiperCameron; 20th Nov 2023 at 05:17.
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 05:51
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So there's a curve-ball, the company was specifically formed FOR the TV show.

Jetworks Aviation (ARN757284) is a bespoke flying school specifically created for the Any Fool Can Fly television documentary in which some very talented individuals are taught to fly.

As the holder of a CASA 141 training approval certificate, Jetworks is capable of teaching ab-initio, formation, and aerobatic skills. In addition, the 141 certificate permits the issue of initial S211 endorsement training.



Our S211 Aircraft are Ex-Military, and as such it is important to understand that:


  • The design, manufacture and airworthiness of the aircraft are not required to meet any safety standard recognised by CASA
  • CASA does not require this aircraft to be operated to the same degree of safety as an aircraft on a commercial passenger flight.
  • A more detailed briefing about the safety of the aircraft will be given to the passenger before the passenger boards the aircraft.
  • The passenger flies in the aircraft at his or her own risk


All passengers will be required to acknowledge these statements prior to entering the aircraft.
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 06:24
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I gather the ejection seats were neither functional nor required to be by the regulations.
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 06:32
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700
So there's a curve-ball, the company was specifically formed FOR the TV show.
Does that mean they were filming the student learning to fly while travelling in formation?
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 07:14
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Originally Posted by Cloudee
Does that mean they were filming the student learning to fly while travelling in formation?
Doesn't sound like it. The passenger on the aircraft that returned was a current Qantas Captain and ex RAAF pilot according to reports.

I have a feeling that the filming was actually completed in the morning (seen over the city around midday) and this was more a joy flight to take one of the camera guys involved out to experience the jets.
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 07:28
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The passenger in the lost plane was a camera operator for high profile tv shows like MasterChef and others - so they may very well have been filming for the show
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 07:41
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Originally Posted by logansi
Doesn't sound like it. The passenger on the aircraft that returned was a current Qantas Captain and ex RAAF pilot according to reports..
TheSenior Instructor/Head of Operations as described on the Any Fool Can Fly page is ex-RAAF and currently with Jetstar.
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 09:57
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Originally Posted by logansi
Doesn't sound like it. The passenger on the aircraft that returned was a current Qantas Captain and ex RAAF pilot according to reports.
I think (rumour) she might have been the instructor onboard the second jet. Althpugh strange if so the ATC mayday call sounded to be a male voice whom has not been identified yet.

Qantas pilot Joanne Mein was on board the fighter jet that landed at Essendon Airport following the tragedy.

Her recollection of what unfolded in the air before Mr Gale’s and Mr Rose’s plane plunged into the water will be central to the police investigation under way as authorities search for the bodies of the two men.

It is not yet clear whether Ms Mein was flying the plane that returned to the airport.
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 10:02
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Originally Posted by DARKMAIZE
I think (rumour understanding) she was the instructor onboard the second jet. ATC mayday call sounded to be a male voice whom has not been identified yet.
Maybe it was the other pilot listed on their pageÖ
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 10:30
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Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer
I gather the ejection seats were neither functional nor required to be by the regulations.
I searched the CASA website and Google - I assume the position still is that ejection seats in civilian owned ex military fast jets cannot be active due to maintenance and safety concerns?
Is there a specific regulation that refers to this?
I may have been searching using the wrong terms.
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 10:35
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Why didnít they eject?

Why didnít they eject?
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 11:09
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On their website of who their instructors are. Some names I see mentioned are the ones here:


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Old 20th Nov 2023, 12:26
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Previous footage

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Old 20th Nov 2023, 14:20
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Investigations continue after two ex-military jets crashed midair off Victoria's coast
[VIDEO from Channel 9 News - some pilot audio describing crash]
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...st/vi-AA1kcpXb
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 22:51
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No bang seats, no parachutes either ?
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 22:58
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Originally Posted by aroa
No bang seats, no parachutes either ?
Nope.. there'd be no way to use them anyway - not at the altitudes and speeds they were flying.

Originally Posted by UnderneathTheRadar
The passenger in the lost plane was a camera operator for high profile tv shows like MasterChef and others - so they may very well have been filming for the show
For a show like this one, they'd need to get an awful lot of 'B-roll' footage.. so that might explain the cameraman in the back seat instead of one of the punters.
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 23:43
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Pilot and cameraman feared dead after ex-military plane crash [VIDEO]
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...sh/vi-AA1kd6Hq
"The search to find two men who were onboard an ex-military plane that crashed into Victoria's Port Phillip Bay yesterday is being treated as a ‘recovery mission’.
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Old 20th Nov 2023, 23:45
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Originally Posted by PiperCameron
Nope.. there'd be no way to use them anyway - not at the altitudes and speeds they were flying.
The Marchetti is usually fitted with MB10 seats, zero-zero capability so your statement is incorrect based on the publicly available information. Moot point if seats were in fact inert anyway.

https://web.archive.org/web/20091122...0sale%20x1.pdf
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 00:59
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Originally Posted by PiperCameron
Nope.. there'd be no way to use them anyway - not at the altitudes and speeds they were flying.
The most extreme speed they hit on the day was around 270 knots based on FR24 and the lowest altitude in the area was around 1,200ft.

The MB MK10 has a minimum height limit of ZERO feet and a maximum speed for ejection of 630 KIAS, so well within limits, IF it was indeed operative.

The issue at that height would be if the aircraft was inverted. You can indeed eject inverted, however I can't find the suggested data on the minimum safe deployment altitude for such a scenario.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 01:28
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Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer
The Marchetti is usually fitted with MB10 seats, zero-zero capability so your statement is incorrect based on the publicly available information. Moot point if seats were in fact inert anyway.

https://web.archive.org/web/20091122...0sale%20x1.pdf
He was referring to using parachutes, which is true that it's a complete waste of time going that fast and being that low. If the seat works, sure, but I am not aware of any civillian operated warbird jets in Australia with live seats.
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