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King Air down at Essendon?

Old 29th Mar 2017, 13:22
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Does the Kingair have external flight control locks?

Not insinuating anything - just interested.
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 13:37
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441 - nope, nothing genuine/approved anyway. I suppose someone could make something up, but why?

Never seen any with external locks either.
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 14:04
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill
Not directly related to the accident report.
WebTrak
Above is a link to the noise monitoring data at Essendon airport. The archive includes the accident date.


I note that the tracks of some aircraft appear at the beginning of the taxi or a hover.
Other tracks don't appear until the flight is past the end of the runway.
What method is used to derive the track? Why does the position of the commencement of the track vary between aircraft/flights?

There is no track for the King Air, it seems to fit the category of tracking that does not commence until the flight is past the end of the runway.

The decibel level of both the impact and post impact noises (explosions?) are recorded.


Mickjoebill
You refer to the ADSB tracking? Some systems transmit ADSB data as soon as they're turned on, others are interconnected through a squat switch or an air switch and don't transmit till the aircraft is going fast enough or the undercarriage extends fully.
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 17:32
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Wrong fuel, contaminated fuel and/or water in the fuel.?
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 17:49
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What about weight and balance issue/shifting of golf bags during takeoff?
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 18:17
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Car RAMROD, I'm presuming these are the prop slash marks.
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 18:19
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Would anyone know what bus the CVR is powered by? What other systems might be on that bus if for whatever reason it failed/was not energised...?
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 20:50
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Originally Posted by megan
Slash marks on the roof from the left prop would seem to indicate it wasn't feathered. Fag packet calcs of slash marks would seem to indicate normal RPM in 2,000 region. Some sort of failure in rudder boost? Any thing else to cause directional control issues?
Really you can tell the prop was at 2000rpm ? What Tq was the engine making? I find this a little hard to believe you can make that assumption on what little has ben shown.
How ever damage between B and C flange is an indication of Tq on inpact but i have yet to see a clear photo of ethier engine.
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 21:16
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dean
fairly sure Ng will go to zero if engine is shut down. Np will do whatever the prop is doing.
FCU drive shear should go to full noise. Well on a - 20 and -34, maybe -41 and -42 have different arrangement. In my uneducated opinion
-42 / 41 are the same with the nylon drive between the hpx edp and the gov section of the fcu. If the drive fails it will go into high uncontrollable engine speed the O/S gov will control the engine to max until it can be shut down via the condition lever
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 21:53
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Really you can tell the prop was at 2000rpm
Simple, four bladed prop, ATSB gives the GS just prior to impact, measure the distance between prop strikes, and apply a bit of maths.
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 23:15
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Originally Posted by megan
Simple, four bladed prop, ATSB gives the GS just prior to impact, measure the distance between prop strikes, and apply a bit of maths.
Fwd airspeed at impact was ?
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 00:15
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In the report, ATSB listed flap setting as 10. Is this the same as approach flap setting in the B200 which according to my manual is 40% of total flap extension. I can't seem to find actual flap settings in degrees in any B200 training text or AFM.

Also, why would the pilot use flaps approach on runway 17 at YMEN? Looking at TODR I wouldn't have thought there would be any runway length considerations to warrant such flap setting.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 00:21
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Originally Posted by Obba
Basically says that both engines were running at the time of the crash.
Actually it implies that both cores were capable of running when it crashed, not that they were!
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 00:39
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Manymak, already mentioned the flaps in a previous post buddy.
T/O App (40%) flap setting is 14 (+/- 1) degrees.

Taking off with flap is better. Have a look at many of your performance figures, especially for Raisbeck equipped machines and the equivalent FAR25 numbers.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 00:41
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Originally Posted by Car RAMROD
Manymak, already mentioned the flaps in a previous post buddy.
T/O App (40%) flap setting is 14 (+/- 1) degrees.

Taking off with flap is better. Have a look at many of your performance figures.
Thanks.

But at some point if runway length is no problem. Takeoff without flap is more desirable. Have a look at Raisbeck accelerate go distance required charts and see the performance penalty an engine failure at V1/Vr to 35' incurs with flap approach.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 00:44
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Originally Posted by Car RAMROD
Manymak, already mentioned the flaps in a previous post buddy.
T/O App (40%) flap setting is 14 (+/- 1) degrees.

Taking off with flap is better. Have a look at many of your performance figures, especially for Raisbeck equipped machines and the equivalent FAR25 numbers.
Approach flap gets you airborne in less distance, but you suffer in climb performance after take-off. If it's obstacle clearance that you are after, then zero flap is a far better option and the preferred procedure for the B200.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 01:01
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Yes that's true the 2nd segment isn't as good.
But you also get better margin over stall and Vmca with flap at T/O.

As long as the numbers work, my preference was with flap.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 01:17
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In 2,500hrs of operating the B200, I not once took off with approach flap, unless I was clearly in need of it (obstacle clearance take off).

If you suffered a donk failure, you're going to want to clear those obstacles, not reduce your ground roll on a runway where you're already only using like 1/3 of the runway.

A colleague I was talking to one day who operated the King Air and used approach flap for take off, went to Flight Safety for a course on the King Air. They showed him the climb penalty for taking off with approach flap. Needless to say, he never took off with approach flap again!

morno
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 01:28
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Hear hear Morno! Over 3000hrs on type and I completely concur!

We look at it in the sim and it's a significant point of discussion (along with demonstrating on P charts) with pilots new to the type too!
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 01:46
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If ever I am in the position where I must use an APP Flap take off, I am never comfortable until the flap is retracted. Minimum airspeed, flap and gear extended, windmilling prop, is not a place I would ever like to be in a Kingair!
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