Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)
You're correct that the Qantas Group Pilot Academy does not guarantee you a job, but from what I've been hearing, they do offer you the chance at an interview with Qantaslink and Jetstar. But only a lucky few then get the nod, like 10 to 15%. But no, you don't need extra multi-engine hours if you get in to Jetstar as a cadet. Cadets at Jetstar are on a different training pathway from direct entry FO candidates and join Jetstar with their CPL and MEIR with 200 hours TT. Once in, they do extra sims and go through a slightly longer line training pathway.
https://career.jetstar.com/jobview/j...-c82a1e1b7110/
Jetstar has been recruiting for the last couple of years and I'd stay it will continue right through this year and possibly beyond.
https://career.jetstar.com/jobview/j...-c82a1e1b7110/
https://career.jetstar.com/jobview/j...-c82a1e1b7110/
Advice on who to use as a reference when applying for airline jobs?
Just wondering what everyone's experience is when it comes to who to use as a referee in the application process, particularly for those who are moving on from piston jobs to airline work?
Context of the question - the owners/head of operations/chief pilots etc in today's environment are often quite salty about the fact that their pilots are moving on so quickly these days and would (in many cases) have no interest in providing a positive reference or even take a phone call from the HR dept of the company who is 'stealing' their talent.
Context of the question - the owners/head of operations/chief pilots etc in today's environment are often quite salty about the fact that their pilots are moving on so quickly these days and would (in many cases) have no interest in providing a positive reference or even take a phone call from the HR dept of the company who is 'stealing' their talent.
Someone above you in a managerial role, or a position you reported to is generally sufficient.
Whether it be the HOTAC who may not care if you leave as they’re not tied to the company the way the owners or CPs tend to be (This was my case where my hotac in GA clashed with the CP and owners and loved referencing pilots to move on).
An ICUS pilot, check and trainers or senior base pilots are sufficient.
Or if it’s your salty CP you fear but you get along with the business owners then they are fine to reference you too. Doesn’t have to be the CP.
FWIW Q group from memory wants two references; one in the last 2.5 years and one in the last 5.
I didn’t use anybody from the company I was at when I applied. I used a senior pilot from 4.5 years prior who mentored me and a CP from two years prior I was on good terms with. The airlines tend to know your current GA employer will be salty as they’re experiencing a high turn over.
Whether it be the HOTAC who may not care if you leave as they’re not tied to the company the way the owners or CPs tend to be (This was my case where my hotac in GA clashed with the CP and owners and loved referencing pilots to move on).
An ICUS pilot, check and trainers or senior base pilots are sufficient.
Or if it’s your salty CP you fear but you get along with the business owners then they are fine to reference you too. Doesn’t have to be the CP.
FWIW Q group from memory wants two references; one in the last 2.5 years and one in the last 5.
I didn’t use anybody from the company I was at when I applied. I used a senior pilot from 4.5 years prior who mentored me and a CP from two years prior I was on good terms with. The airlines tend to know your current GA employer will be salty as they’re experiencing a high turn over.
Know anyone at the airline you're applying to?
Use them….provided of course they haven't blotted their own copy book.
Use them….provided of course they haven't blotted their own copy book.
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Never saw it in action but it was said if you made an absolute ***hole of yourself you would get a glowing referral so they could get rid of you. At our company any applicant was either given a thumbs up/down by the current pilots who knew the applicant, side stepped the glowing reference from a previous employer which may have been pie in the sky.
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Hey has anyone heard of the flight standards/MFS airline cadetship/training program in partnership with kakadu air and some other charter groups, just saw it and was interested in signing up but wanted to get some background as it is pretty unknown
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New 44 year old pilot - seeking career advice
Hi All,
I am considering, late in life (aviation-wise) to change career and train to become a commercial pilot. This is something I was on a path to do towards the end of high school. For one reason or another, other ideas became more interesting and I had largely forgotten about flying. I am now, at the age of 44 considering entering an integrated CPL course. Time-wise I think it is either now or never. I have done a great deal of reading and feel I have a grasp of what is required and the potential challenges. My interest stems from looking to challenge myself with a specific and new skill set and perhaps a little sense of adventure. A new path.
As far as I can see right now - what I would like to work towards is flying a jet of some kind, or at least a "larger aircraft", ie not GA forever. Could be corporate, RPT, freight or something else.
I have some concerns, and what I am missing is real-world (constructive) career advice from pilots or aviation professionals operating in Australia. Given the above and assuming my aptitude is suitable and I put in the hard work required to succeed, my concerns are:
1. Being stuck in the outback, remote or regional Australia forever. 1-3 years, ok I would look on it as something new and no doubt there would be experiences to be had. However this is not where I aim to be long-term.
2. As an newly qualified CPL, seeking first jobs and being exposed to operators with a dubious attitude towards safety.
3. Age is something I cannot change. Assuming qualified CPL at age 45, how far could I go assuming continued perseverance re qualifications and experience? I spoke to one pilot who suggested that given my current age the end of the road for me was most likely flying a C208. Any thoughts?
** Points 1 and 2 assume a GA route. Happy to hear any thoughts on an instructor route.
My questions are genuine. If I have offended or suggested something foolish, well that is why I am here - to discuss and seek advice from those with knowledge and experience. Perhaps some of the questions require a crystal ball to answer with certainty. So my thanks in advance for your time, consideration and any advice you are able to offer.
I am considering, late in life (aviation-wise) to change career and train to become a commercial pilot. This is something I was on a path to do towards the end of high school. For one reason or another, other ideas became more interesting and I had largely forgotten about flying. I am now, at the age of 44 considering entering an integrated CPL course. Time-wise I think it is either now or never. I have done a great deal of reading and feel I have a grasp of what is required and the potential challenges. My interest stems from looking to challenge myself with a specific and new skill set and perhaps a little sense of adventure. A new path.
As far as I can see right now - what I would like to work towards is flying a jet of some kind, or at least a "larger aircraft", ie not GA forever. Could be corporate, RPT, freight or something else.
I have some concerns, and what I am missing is real-world (constructive) career advice from pilots or aviation professionals operating in Australia. Given the above and assuming my aptitude is suitable and I put in the hard work required to succeed, my concerns are:
1. Being stuck in the outback, remote or regional Australia forever. 1-3 years, ok I would look on it as something new and no doubt there would be experiences to be had. However this is not where I aim to be long-term.
2. As an newly qualified CPL, seeking first jobs and being exposed to operators with a dubious attitude towards safety.
3. Age is something I cannot change. Assuming qualified CPL at age 45, how far could I go assuming continued perseverance re qualifications and experience? I spoke to one pilot who suggested that given my current age the end of the road for me was most likely flying a C208. Any thoughts?
** Points 1 and 2 assume a GA route. Happy to hear any thoughts on an instructor route.
My questions are genuine. If I have offended or suggested something foolish, well that is why I am here - to discuss and seek advice from those with knowledge and experience. Perhaps some of the questions require a crystal ball to answer with certainty. So my thanks in advance for your time, consideration and any advice you are able to offer.
GA is awful
My advice to you is do not do it. First hurdle is getting a job. There are literally hundreds of younger people in front of you already. Many will offer to work for free and not complain.
Accommodation in outback towns is generally poor and the pay even worse.
In the short time I was in GA it seemed more like a high school popularity contest than professional job.
Yes your age will work against you. Old people complain is what i was told. Leave it to the 21 year olds.
Accommodation in outback towns is generally poor and the pay even worse.
In the short time I was in GA it seemed more like a high school popularity contest than professional job.
Yes your age will work against you. Old people complain is what i was told. Leave it to the 21 year olds.
Last edited by Climb150; 4th Mar 2024 at 04:36.
Generally is three age brackets for those job hunting. This is from past experience running a GA outfit looking over what seemed like a billion resumes coming through the door each year.
20-30yrs 95%
30-40yrs 4%
40-50yrs 1%
Our preferred candidate age was someone in the second bracket. Sadly they just didn’t exist. And the last bracket, they most certainly did not exist.
The interesting thing was, the more ‘creative’ and interesting CVs, came from the second and third bracket. Past life experience is of interest to myself in addition to flying skills. When my admin said she had a mid 30s boy or girls resume in her hand, my ears picked up, only get a couple a year. All resumes from 20 year olds are the same, most of them have no life experience and cannot even have a decent conversation with you, let alone dress appropriately for an interview. I hired the 35 yr old who then became the CP, and many years later is now a Training Captain on the Airbus at a bigger outfit.
20-30yrs 95%
30-40yrs 4%
40-50yrs 1%
Our preferred candidate age was someone in the second bracket. Sadly they just didn’t exist. And the last bracket, they most certainly did not exist.
The interesting thing was, the more ‘creative’ and interesting CVs, came from the second and third bracket. Past life experience is of interest to myself in addition to flying skills. When my admin said she had a mid 30s boy or girls resume in her hand, my ears picked up, only get a couple a year. All resumes from 20 year olds are the same, most of them have no life experience and cannot even have a decent conversation with you, let alone dress appropriately for an interview. I hired the 35 yr old who then became the CP, and many years later is now a Training Captain on the Airbus at a bigger outfit.
Hi All,
I am considering, late in life (aviation-wise) to change career and train to become a commercial pilot. This is something I was on a path to do towards the end of high school. For one reason or another, other ideas became more interesting and I had largely forgotten about flying. I am now, at the age of 44 considering entering an integrated CPL course. Time-wise I think it is either now or never. I have done a great deal of reading and feel I have a grasp of what is required and the potential challenges. My interest stems from looking to challenge myself with a specific and new skill set and perhaps a little sense of adventure. A new path.
As far as I can see right now - what I would like to work towards is flying a jet of some kind, or at least a "larger aircraft", ie not GA forever. Could be corporate, RPT, freight or something else.
I have some concerns, and what I am missing is real-world (constructive) career advice from pilots or aviation professionals operating in Australia. Given the above and assuming my aptitude is suitable and I put in the hard work required to succeed, my concerns are:
1. Being stuck in the outback, remote or regional Australia forever. 1-3 years, ok I would look on it as something new and no doubt there would be experiences to be had. However this is not where I aim to be long-term.
2. As an newly qualified CPL, seeking first jobs and being exposed to operators with a dubious attitude towards safety.
3. Age is something I cannot change. Assuming qualified CPL at age 45, how far could I go assuming continued perseverance re qualifications and experience? I spoke to one pilot who suggested that given my current age the end of the road for me was most likely flying a C208. Any thoughts?
** Points 1 and 2 assume a GA route. Happy to hear any thoughts on an instructor route.
My questions are genuine. If I have offended or suggested something foolish, well that is why I am here - to discuss and seek advice from those with knowledge and experience. Perhaps some of the questions require a crystal ball to answer with certainty. So my thanks in advance for your time, consideration and any advice you are able to offer.
I am considering, late in life (aviation-wise) to change career and train to become a commercial pilot. This is something I was on a path to do towards the end of high school. For one reason or another, other ideas became more interesting and I had largely forgotten about flying. I am now, at the age of 44 considering entering an integrated CPL course. Time-wise I think it is either now or never. I have done a great deal of reading and feel I have a grasp of what is required and the potential challenges. My interest stems from looking to challenge myself with a specific and new skill set and perhaps a little sense of adventure. A new path.
As far as I can see right now - what I would like to work towards is flying a jet of some kind, or at least a "larger aircraft", ie not GA forever. Could be corporate, RPT, freight or something else.
I have some concerns, and what I am missing is real-world (constructive) career advice from pilots or aviation professionals operating in Australia. Given the above and assuming my aptitude is suitable and I put in the hard work required to succeed, my concerns are:
1. Being stuck in the outback, remote or regional Australia forever. 1-3 years, ok I would look on it as something new and no doubt there would be experiences to be had. However this is not where I aim to be long-term.
2. As an newly qualified CPL, seeking first jobs and being exposed to operators with a dubious attitude towards safety.
3. Age is something I cannot change. Assuming qualified CPL at age 45, how far could I go assuming continued perseverance re qualifications and experience? I spoke to one pilot who suggested that given my current age the end of the road for me was most likely flying a C208. Any thoughts?
** Points 1 and 2 assume a GA route. Happy to hear any thoughts on an instructor route.
My questions are genuine. If I have offended or suggested something foolish, well that is why I am here - to discuss and seek advice from those with knowledge and experience. Perhaps some of the questions require a crystal ball to answer with certainty. So my thanks in advance for your time, consideration and any advice you are able to offer.
Many of my grads go on to do survey work, that can be interesting and again they need people who will stick around.
I wouldn't recommend an integrated course personally as you don't have enough command hours when you finish to be of any use to anyone. Also you might find being in a classroom with people much younger to be frustrating at times (I speak as someone doing a uni course in my 60s) Spend half as much and go non-integrated, build up your hours and add ratings when you need them, don't spend money on things you won't be using for years, if ever.
Burroughs: Assuming you are financially comfortable and have a supportive family - Go for it. No one can predict where the industry will be in 2 years time or what your career or job prospects might be. With regard to training, do exactly as Clare Prop suggests, avoid the pay up front sausage factories.
What I can tell you is that unless you’re one of the very lucky few, it will be a dispiriting path with appallingly poor pay and work conditions. Check out the GA awards and you will come to the conclusion that’ stacking supermarket shelves is a more lucrative occupation than the majority of GA jobs. If you can’t live with that harsh reality, go learn to fly anyway, buy your own aircraft and just enjoy “ slipping the surly bonds of Earth. And dancing the skies on laughter”
What I can tell you is that unless you’re one of the very lucky few, it will be a dispiriting path with appallingly poor pay and work conditions. Check out the GA awards and you will come to the conclusion that’ stacking supermarket shelves is a more lucrative occupation than the majority of GA jobs. If you can’t live with that harsh reality, go learn to fly anyway, buy your own aircraft and just enjoy “ slipping the surly bonds of Earth. And dancing the skies on laughter”
In my opinion the GA pathway in Australia is not worth it, there's limited opportunities and progression is far too slow. Do you really want to spend upwards of $80k to fly clapped out 210's and maybe a piston twin or caravan if you are lucky, or at worst not find employment at all (there's a lot of CPL holders who never find work)? If you make it through 5 years of that, you then have to compete with cadets for regional jobs...
If you can justify a few years in the USA, I'd suggest doing your training there with one of the schools that feed the regional airlines. They pretty much offer the full pathway from zero to RHS of a jet, including placements for the hours to meet their ATPL requirements. The other advantage with the US is their GA industry is huge and they don't have this approach to aviation where anything bigger than a Seminole is treated as if it were the space shuttle in terms of complexity. If you did want to go down the GA charter path over there, there are lots more opportunities to fly king airs or small business jets at 500-1000hrs which is simply not going to happen in Aus. This is all much easier now that Australians can access the E3 visa.
You can always do a few years over there, build up your hours quickly and return to a job here.
If you can justify a few years in the USA, I'd suggest doing your training there with one of the schools that feed the regional airlines. They pretty much offer the full pathway from zero to RHS of a jet, including placements for the hours to meet their ATPL requirements. The other advantage with the US is their GA industry is huge and they don't have this approach to aviation where anything bigger than a Seminole is treated as if it were the space shuttle in terms of complexity. If you did want to go down the GA charter path over there, there are lots more opportunities to fly king airs or small business jets at 500-1000hrs which is simply not going to happen in Aus. This is all much easier now that Australians can access the E3 visa.
You can always do a few years over there, build up your hours quickly and return to a job here.
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In my opinion the GA pathway in Australia is not worth it, there's limited opportunities and progression is far too slow. Do you really want to spend upwards of $80k to fly clapped out 210's and maybe a piston twin or caravan if you are lucky, or at worst not find employment at all (there's a lot of CPL holders who never find work)? If you make it through 5 years of that, you then have to compete with cadets for regional jobs...
If you can justify a few years in the USA, I'd suggest doing your training there with one of the schools that feed the regional airlines. They pretty much offer the full pathway from zero to RHS of a jet, including placements for the hours to meet their ATPL requirements. The other advantage with the US is their GA industry is huge and they don't have this approach to aviation where anything bigger than a Seminole is treated as if it were the space shuttle in terms of complexity. If you did want to go down the GA charter path over there, there are lots more opportunities to fly king airs or small business jets at 500-1000hrs which is simply not going to happen in Aus. This is all much easier now that Australians can access the E3 visa.
You can always do a few years over there, build up your hours quickly and return to a job here.
If you can justify a few years in the USA, I'd suggest doing your training there with one of the schools that feed the regional airlines. They pretty much offer the full pathway from zero to RHS of a jet, including placements for the hours to meet their ATPL requirements. The other advantage with the US is their GA industry is huge and they don't have this approach to aviation where anything bigger than a Seminole is treated as if it were the space shuttle in terms of complexity. If you did want to go down the GA charter path over there, there are lots more opportunities to fly king airs or small business jets at 500-1000hrs which is simply not going to happen in Aus. This is all much easier now that Australians can access the E3 visa.
You can always do a few years over there, build up your hours quickly and return to a job here.
This is an extremely viable option but I don’t think that US flight schools will sponsor a visa as an Australian. I’m Interested to hear what other people think about it though.