Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

[PiperCameron]

Originally Posted by Chopz

Hi folks,

So I have read what feels like a million posts trying to determine what the best flight schools are in the Melbourne/ Vic area.

They have all meshed into some sort of abstract art in my head and unfortunately some of the posts are older and no longer relevant.

Could someone shed some light on schools that offer Vet Fee-Help for CPL Diploma courses? The current options seem to be Learn to Fly, RVAC and AAPA. We then have the degree options with RMIT, Swinburne (CAE) and CQU (MFS). Learn to Fly seem to have a good program and a new partnership with Griffith University but some older posts have not exactly rated them highly. Anyone recently experienced these schools and have any thoughts?

If you're near Moorabbin, don't discount Tristar - their instructors are fantastic and they have a huge fleet (mostly Cessnas) to choose from, even if a bit more old-school than Learn to Die. Rumour has it that MFS is in dire straits and being taken over by MAS.

If you want to stay out of the politics and away from the multitude of CAE/Oxford Cessnas filling up the pattern at Moorabbin, head out to Lilydale Flying School in the Yarra Valley. The LFS fleet comprises everything from cheap(ish) Foxbats and Jabirus through the usual Piper offering and all the way up in $$$ and they offer both RAAus and CASA licenses under friendly instruction. Have fun choosing!

[Charizard90]

Originally Posted by Qantas331

Hi all,
I'm currently a Yr 12 HSC student in North Sydney wishing to have a career in aviation. I don't plan on going down the uni route, instead of going through an integrated course like that offered at Basair (YSBK) and others and eventually finishing with a commercial multi. From what I've read, however, the VET FEE programs can have some pitfalls alongside the general shambles of the industry in Australia at the moment from the impossibility of having any prospect of a job as a freshly popped wet CPL, I don't want to dive headfirst into the school and be subject to crippling debt.

I do have an advantage however in that I have dual citizenship (AU and US) and have family over there. I've also seen a few random threads mentioning US regionals wanting overseas pilots to join on the E-3 program and FAA license conversion. While that seems promising, I'm aware of the state of the wages and the onslaught of working in US regionals.

On the whole, I just want to know if it is worthwhile to wait for a period while the situation recovers here, and generate savings to contribute towards the commercial multi rating and eventually start some form of work in Oz, and do I have more realistic career prospects and opportunities in the US?

I'm well aware of the brutal and competitive nature of the aviation industry and its current shambles. I also understand the risks associated with a commitment to a future in it, and that is not a short process, and I can't expect any opportunities straight away. I do have other plans if it ends up not working out beforehand. However, I feel that an opportunity is still present in my ability to work in the US and the fact I will still be a reasonable age within a few years while the industry recovers somewhat to find occupation.

Any perspectives are appreciated

Thanks

Sent you a PM

[DARKMAIZE]

Originally Posted by Chopz

Hi folks,

So I have read what feels like a million posts trying to determine what the best flight schools are in the Melbourne/ Vic area.

They have all meshed into some sort of abstract art in my head and unfortunately some of the posts are older and no longer relevant.

Could someone shed some light on schools that offer Vet Fee-Help for CPL Diploma courses? The current options seem to be Learn to Fly, RVAC and AAPA. We then have the degree options with RMIT, Swinburne (CAE) and CQU (MFS). Learn to Fly seem to have a good program and a new partnership with Griffith University but some older posts have not exactly rated them highly. Anyone recently experienced these schools and have any thoughts?

Hi Chopz,

TVSA at Bacchus Marsh also offer a VET level diploma course.
I have recently started private training with them and have enjoyed the experience thus far, not having experienced any issues (other than occasional cancellation due to weather or illness with me wanting to keep the same instructor).
The team have been friendly and supportive.
My history was that I originally took lessons when I was 16 and got to my first solo, but that was back in 1996 (a lifetime ago, and I've done nothing but Microsoft flying since).
As I have been progressing, the instructors have monitored my ability and do not seem interested in required me to spend extra hours once having demonstrated competence to a required lesson criteria.

Compared to my previous experience which was at Archerfield with RQAC (now defunct I believe), one thing I have noticed is the lack of time spent traversing from startup to the training area, as the runway is right there and the airfield is in the training area.
Less time idling around means more time practicing lesson skills.
I think that's an advantage of undertaking it at a school that is not based in a controlled airspace.
Of course, controlled airspace has other advantages, but there is plenty of time for that.

Best of luck with your endeavours.

[PiperCameron]

Originally Posted by DARKMAIZE

TVSA at Bacchus Marsh also offer a VET level diploma course.
I have recently started private training with them and have enjoyed the experience thus far, not having experienced any issues (other than occasional cancellation due to weather or illness with me wanting to keep the same instructor).
The team have been friendly and supportive.
........

That's good to know. YBSS, with its long, paved, cross runways, was my favorite go-to place for landing practice during RPL and PPL training not so long ago ("fly down this road and turn base at the roundabout!") and it was sad when the previous school closed down. From the web site, it seems TVSA have spent quite a load of money on the place and hopefully many of the friendly and helpful people I spoke to when getting PPR remain with the new crowd. I must go back and visit.

[Anthony11]

Flight training to airlines

Hi, I'm interested in being an airline pilot. I just want everyone's opinion on if I should do the Bachelor of aviation with CQU online using HECS or should I pay as I go with a local flight school?

[engine out]

In my opinion (and it’s only my opinion). Go self funded if you can afford it. If you have funds already you’ll be finished long before those going through uni. You will also pay a lot less in total. You will, in my experience, get better one on one training with a smaller school that can tailor its course to suit your individual needs better.

[Anthony11]

Originally Posted by engine out

In my opinion (and it’s only my opinion). Go self funded if you can afford it. If you have funds already you’ll be finished long before those going through uni. You will also pay a lot less in total. You will, in my experience, get better one on one training with a smaller school that can tailor its course to suit your individual needs better.

I don't have the funds available, I would be needing to work full time and fly whenever I can. So its hard to say how long it would take self funded, though thinking about 1-2 times per week. Thats why I was thinking bachelor so I can get in and do it covered by HECS/FEE-HELP and it could possibly be done faster. The only thing with HECS is the amount it will end up being and then with it being indexed annually adding to that amount.

[Clare Prop]

PLus it is indexed with CPI, not interest rates then there's tens of thousands in "admin fees" added on, which would be better used getting command time!

What's the rush? You need to have an edge over all the thousands that will be graduating from the sausage factories. Command time is what gives you the edge. Be the tortoise, not the hare.

[ajax58]

Originally Posted by Clare Prop

What's the rush?

If you do the diploma/advanced diploma set at a school that can do FEE HELP loans you'll be finished and job ready with very little out of pocket cost in under two years. It would be almost impossible to complete CPL/MECIR while working to pay for training in double that time.

Yes it's initially more expensive on paper but at the back end of your career every additional year you work could be worth half a million bucks.

[Clare Prop]

Originally Posted by ajax58

If you do the diploma/advanced diploma set at a school that can do FEE HELP loans you'll be finished and job ready with very little out of pocket cost in under two years. It would be almost impossible to complete CPL/MECIR while working to pay for training in double that time.

Yes it's initially more expensive on paper but at the back end of your career every additional year you work could be worth half a million bucks.

What job are you ready for with 70 hours in command?.
Big difference between a list of acronyms in your licence and being job ready. Command time is what makes you job ready and promotable.
There is an assumption that you will walk straight into a lucrative job straight from flying school. Good luck with that.

[ajax58]

Originally Posted by Clare Prop

What job are you ready for with 70 hours in command?.

The exact same job you're ready for if you spent five years of weekends getting the exact same qualifications, but three years sooner.

[Clare Prop]

Originally Posted by ajax58

The exact same job you're ready for if you spent five years of weekends getting the exact same qualifications, but three years sooner.

Not sure if you are giving or receiving, it's a slik sales pitch.

Someone who's done the course part time will have at least 100 hours in command, no expensive ratings that they can't use and will have to spend a lot keeping current and will have spent about half as much to be more job ready. .

I'm speaking as someone who has been employing pilots for 30 years. And as one of the taxpayers who is subsidising this rort.
Someone who has seen the disappointment on the faces of people whose HECS debt is maxed out and, if they did actually finish can't find work because there are thousands of others just like them, who fell for the same trick.. And as their HECS is maxed out they can't do anything else at uni to get a useful qualification!

[ajax58]

Originally Posted by Clare Prop

Not sure if you are giving or receiving, it's a slik sales pitch.

Someone who's done the course part time will have at least 100 hours in command, no expensive ratings that they can't use and will have to spend a lot keeping current and will have spent about half as much to be more job ready. .

I'm speaking as someone who has been employing pilots for 30 years. And as one of the taxpayers who is subsidising this rort.
Someone who has seen the disappointment on the faces of people whose HECS debt is maxed out and, if they did actually finish can't find work because there are thousands of others just like them, who fell for the same trick.. And as their HECS is maxed out they can't do anything else at uni to get a useful qualification!

I'm not sure if you're aware, but you don't need to complete a full CPL/MECIR set of qualifications via student loans. You could, if you so wished, complete a bare CPL in under a year via an AVI50219 diploma course. No expensive ratings necessary and plenty of room in the loan cap to complete another course if needed. Then with the time you've saved you could rent a 152 on weekends to get those 30 extra hours.

I've seen enough in my time to form my own opinions on the positive and negative aspects of various training options. Personally I'm happy to have my tax dollars help people access flight training. Recent history is littered with far more egregious government spending.

[Clare Prop]

For that amount of money, that is normally only accessible to people in the very top percentiles in ATAR, there should be a very high bar to entry.
The only other courses that can borrow that much money are medicine, dentistry and vet.

[ajax58]

Originally Posted by Clare Prop

For that amount of money, that is normally only accessible to people in the very top percentiles in ATAR, there should be a very high bar to entry.
The only other courses that can borrow that much money are medicine, dentistry and vet.

The AVI50219 diploma runs about $82k. The loan limit for non-aviation courses is about $109k at the moment. There's plenty of non-aviation degrees that could be completed within the cap with CSP unit fees around $1k/semester.

Granted, most student pilots won't do this and would jump straight into the $40k advanced diploma for the MECIR, or just be enrolled in a three year degree program.

For what it's worth, I think the degree programs are not worth it, but the diploma/advanced diploma have their place. I know many pilots who simply wouldn't have had the opportunity to pursue a flying career if they couldn't access a student loan.

[Sunray 3]

CASA in NZ

Hello,

Australian. Was made redundant from Virgin group in Aus in 2020 with lots of others. Have not flown since. Want to fly again. Spat out of cyclic 2020 with no IR, promises from Virgin to requalify us evaporated. Have not flown light a/c for a long time.

Currently in NZ, and understand it is possible to requalify (in some capacity - will address that below) here in NZ but under AU Part 61, with approval to do test in ZK tail etc.
Q. Can someone help me, finding a school or a person that might do this or know about doing this?

Either in a sim, or in a light aircraft, really just want to be in a position to be employable again in AU and NZ after doing Trans Tasman thing - but need my AU ATPL /IR back first.
Not necessarily looking for requalification on a specific type. Obviously can go to Aus and do it in the Metro or Saab sim, having lots of time on those, may do this but wanted to try in NZ first. Don't want to spend huge amounts - this is big factor.

CASA swear they have no list of CASA accredited examiners or organisations in NZ which seems rather odd. Already found a CASA DAME here no prob.

Any assistance would be appreciated chaps.

[Chopz]

RVAC

Hi all,

Anyone have any specific experiences with doing the Diploma of Aviation at Royal Victorian Aero Club in Moorabbin?

Please reach out, even via private message if you don't want it to be public.

Chopz

[Bosi72]

Originally Posted by Anthony11

I don't have the funds available, .

Whichever path you choose, you will have to pass 7 cpl + 7 atpl + irex exams.
They (books+exams) cost a fraction of the flight training and can be paid as you go,
Good luck

[Bosi72]

Originally Posted by Sunray 3

CASA swear they have no list of CASA accredited examiners or organisations in NZ which seems rather odd.

.

Having no examiners in another country is not odd, however having only 3 examiners in Victoria who can examine other examiners is odd.

You may try here:
​​​​​​
https://flighttest.net/flight-examiners/

[evilducky]

Originally Posted by Chopz

Hi all,

Anyone have any specific experiences with doing the Diploma of Aviation at Royal Victorian Aero Club in Moorabbin?

Please reach out, even via private message if you don't want it to be public.

Chopz

Great outfit, both HOO and CP have worked hard to modernise the flying school part of the club. The club itself is not-for-profit (all funds stay in the club for the betterment of members/students), which gives some reassurance of not being taken for a ride like some loan backed training providers have done in the past. There are also no cadets taking planes or instructors away from you - the Diploma students seem to take precedence. Fleet aging but well kept and equipped.

If you have to go FEE-HELP, RVAC is a good way to do it.