Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

[chuboy]

Originally Posted by 0gf20gf02fh2f2f

Hi all,

Planning to learn PPL for leisure purposes in Sydney. Want to know how practical it is to fly for weekend trips to, for example, to visit the Dubbo zoo for 2 or 3 days.

The wife thinks I am just gonna waste money on learning it then never gonna ever use it again. I too have this concern as my original goal is to take the family or friends on cross country flights. But after the trial flight, I realised that flying small planes cross-country would not be any enjoyment for passengers unless it's a nicer/more expensive plane with aircon and more cabin spaces etc. Obviously, it is still doable to hire a better plane and plan for stops but don't see this happening a lot, likely tops once in 2, 3 years.

So a more practical use of the PPL would be to replace driving trips that are a bit long, like over 4/5 hours, such as going to the Dubbo zoo or the Snowy mountains. Then I started to actually think it through, and realised it is probably not that practical too:

1. Our place in Sydney to Bankstown airport is about 40 minutes drive with no traffic at all
2. We need to hire an aircraft. Did some searches, looks like a Cessna 152 costs around 350 per hour (wet), and a nicer 172 would be around 500 per hour. From other threads, it doesn't seem that easier to find airplanes to hire unless joining clubs/memberships etc but those add other overheads. I guess the market is not mature enough like renting cars.
3. We need to find a place to park our car at Bankstown airport. I guess it would cost money for secure parking since it's gonna be 3, 4 days.
4. The flight to Dubbo obviously is not gonna be a straight line, I am a newbie and just used some online tools, more realistically it's gonna be a 2 hours plus flight.
5. When we get to Dubbo, we need to rent a car to travel around. And maybe pay for the airplane parking? And pay for the plane while we are at Dubbo? I am not sure about this part.

So the rough total cost of flying there and back would be 1500+ for a simple plane and 2500+ for a nicer plane. I checked out the Qantas link flight tickets, during non-peak time, it's just 600 returns for 3 people.

Obviously, it's a private flying flight so it is meant to cost more but I just find it a hard sell to the wife... Am I correct about the above assumptions? Could anyone share some personal experiences, please?

You already know the answer I think.

Private flying is never going to save you money. If your hourly earnings at work were triple the club hire rate it would probably still work out cheaper to travel by car or RPT.

My advice is if you want to learn to fly you need to tell your wife you want to do it and argue about that. Don't try to contrive scenarios where it sounds more efficient than alternatives to sell it to her (or yourself)if because 99.9% of the time it isn't, unless you live on a cattle station.

[DARKMAIZE]

Originally Posted by 0gf20gf02fh2f2f

Hi all,

Planning to learn PPL for leisure purposes in Sydney. Want to know how practical it is to fly for weekend trips to, for example, to visit the Dubbo zoo for 2 or 3 days.

The wife thinks I am just gonna waste money on learning it then never gonna ever use it again.

Obviously, it's a private flying flight so it is meant to cost more but I just find it a hard sell to the wife... Am I correct about the above assumptions? Could anyone share some personal experiences, please?

I'm sure that you know that private flying is not about saving money. But what it does is give you experience you can't get elsewhere.

We only get one life. Some people like to buy art. Some people like to buy holidays to Bali. Some people like to buy wine. Some people buy NEW cars and don't think twice about the thousands in depreciation the minute the drive off the lot.

Some people like to fly planes.

When I sold my first property 7 years ago, I wished to earmark some of the profits to learn to fly..

My (now ex) wife demanded that I not waste 'our' money on something so frivolous (I was a sole income earner).

I deeply regret not following my dreams at that time. Instead all the profits were wasted anyway and wound up with nothing for us to show for it.

I am grateful that my current partner is supportive and practically demanded that go and follow my dreams.

I can't speak for your personal circumstances, but I've spent as much money each year for the last 6 years on one of my children's high school education as I could have spent getting an RPL with a passenger and Nav certificate..

My eldest is now 18, so I can justify it to myself that it is far past time to do something for myself that I've wanted to do since I was a young child spotting 727's flying overhead.

I have a feeling the Bankstown is an expensive place to fly from, as there doesn't seem to be to as many options as say a quick look at Morrabbin in Victoria ($500 an hour would get you a very spacious and very fast Piper Chieftain twin for you and 9 mates).

But, a 5 second check on internet shows at least one 172 at bankstown from $230/hr wet.

Perhaps look at other options at Warnervale or Woolongong (depending on which side of Sydney you are on).

Alternatively, you could purchase yourself (or you might find a few new friends when training and start a syndicate) something like a jabiru etc which is even cheaper per hour (does anyone have rates for Sling / etc near Sydney??) and not that much more than a 'nice' car to purchase (upfront costs only - I have zero experience with running costs - maybe pop down to your 'local' Wedderburn airstrip and ask some locals) and will hold it's value better.

One thing I will note, you mentioned $600 return on Qantas, but that doesn't include the parking, hire car / etc. It's just the airfare.

Which, I just ran a check and for 3 return flights to Dubbo on July 15 2022 (as at right now), you're looking at cheapest $834 vs $920 for 4 hours return in the aforementioned C172.

And you avoid needing to be at airport 1 hour before

You can dictate your own schedule.

Don't need to wait with check-in, security.

And you can take a 4th for "free" (or find a 6 seater, split the costs and take a 5th and 6th).

Best of luck with working out what you want to do.