Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

[AvGeek7]

Failed the IREX :(

Ok folks - I attempted the IREX and scored 63% .. now in my defence, I wasn't really ready and did try rescheduling but it was too late so I decided to go in and attempt it anyway - I self-studied for around 10 days using ATC"s book and attempted some of Bob Tait's exams - I passed (70-80 range) 3 of his exams and failed two ... I don't wanna lose confidence and am motivated to study harder but just wanted to ask others how much did they spend time studying (P/T or F/T) before they passed it? I have finished attempting all of Bob Tait's exams and have averaged in the 70's on 4 of them (out of 7) I'm also thinking of purchasing Rob Avery's question bank...any other tips?

Thanks!

[drpixie]

AvGeek7 - given the required mark is 70%, you need to aim higher that that. If you're getting less than 90s in the practice, you're probably not ready. And practice under exam conditions and time limits.

[Okihara]

Sorry to read that you flunked the IREX. Don't take it to heart too much, it's a tough one. If you're acknowledging that your preparation was haphazard, then leave it at that and try again. I put two weeks almost full time into it before I felt that my sanity was taking a hit. That's when I concluded that I wouldn't be any more ready to take it.

In hindsight, knowing the AIP backwards and the front and back parts of ERSA proved the very helpful. There were probably 10 ridiculously straightforward, instant questions in my exam that solely tested your ability to navigate your documents/charts and extract the relevant information. I dedicated most of my time on alternate and fuel questions, most of which involved decoding the TAF/TTF and making sure that I was not missing the obvious. The other questions that took a bit of thinking were those on approach plates (MDA, DA, what to do if you don't see the runway environment, etc...).

I think that the exam is designed around the assumption that you should be able to get all those "easy" points (drift, track error, finding things in the documents, the expected emergency-type questions) plus around half of the more involved ones to get a pass.

Regarding Bob Tait's book: Other than the questions at the end and the brain teaser ADF/VOR chapter, I found the other parts to be somewhat lacking structure which made it harder for me to grasp the "spirit" of it all (I self-studied which probably didn't help for something as thick and ill-defined as IFR). I'm not saying it's a badly written book but for a casual VFR private pilot with close to no exposure to the IFR realm, I found the book a bit dry. If I have one regret though, it's delaying reading the actual AIP (RTFM, if you know what this means). Surprisingly, I found it to be quite concise and in fact rather to the point without much ado.

I also solved around 450 questions: those in Bob's book, 4 sample exams on Bob's site and 4 in Rob Avery's book.

Lastly, if I was to have a second regret, it's not heeding my IF instructor's advice when she suggested that I take a look at the sample IREX questions on CASA's website. Truly that was one of the poorer decisions I made in life because I had them open in one of the billion browser tabs and it wasn't until after taking the exam that I took a read. I was stunned to find 5-6 of the very same questions that were asked in the IREX. No drama but I could have saved precious time.

[AvGeek7]

Yeah I'm going to keep persevering until I get there .. no point crying over spilt milk now

[Capt Fathom]

Passing with only 70% means there’s an lot you don’t know. That will come back to bite you when you get to the flying stage. It will cost you $$$. You need to understand the subject, not just pass the exam.

[AvGeek7]

Hey mate - cheers for the detailed reply .. I think I screwed up a couple of questions by misreading height v/s altitude when reviewing the plates (These seemingly minor differences can easily mean the diff between passing and failing) ..fuel calculations based on the TAF/TTF can be a tease .but I think I was ok on those ..Strangely, my major trouble areas seems to be around recency requirements and equipment needed for IFR CHarter vs Pvt etc .. One of my questions on recency contained options such as '85 days vs 45 days - I had never seen a question like that across Bob Tait's sets) ..

Anyway, I think I'm going to get further engrossed in the AIP and do Bob Tait's questions at the back of his book and chapters .. I'm also considering joining a theory course at my local school

[drpixie]

Unlike most other exams, IREX is about what will keep you alive. Confusing altitude v height on an approach will kill you. And turning up somewhere without enough fuel to wait-out the weather - that will kill you too. Flying the approach wrong, or out of tolerance ... that will kill you. Descending below LSA on a dark night surrounded by hills - now that will kill you! So IREX is much more than just "know the stuff". When you're flying an approach in IMC with no auto-pilot, you'll be busy just doing the right thing - no time to check if it really is the right thing.

Think I'm exaggerating? It's easy enough to find approaches that miss mountains and towers by only a few hundred metres laterally, and a couple of hundred feet vertically. The Canberra VOR and Mudgee NDB come to mind. Get it wrong and we'll see your mess on the news.

IREX is open book - so you should make a note of anything you're uncertain about, and use the time at the end to check uncertain questions against AIP, ERSA etc. (That's what the scrap paper is for, noting things to go back to ) And anyone who walks out of an IREX exam before the time limit, they are just throwing away marks!! Use all the time they give you. Same when you come to your ATPLs.

[albatraoz]

Hey guys,

I'm a 28-year-old looking to change their career. Is anybody able to recommend a flying school in Sydney / Bankstown? To be honest I'm almost a complete newbie when it comes to flying (took a test flight many years ago). Would be hoping to get my CPL or higher within the next two years.

I had looked at SOAR aviation but I've only heard bad things about them. Other schools that I've researched seem to be okay but I would be looking to do part-time if possible.

[aviator777]

Good points drpixie.

I always remember flying the Ballarat NDB approach one dirty night (when the NDB was still there). No RMI, raw ADF. Didn't get visual, but I could see the glow of the city lights through the cloud! Really drives home just how close you are to obstacles in IMC. Some towers in the area are only a few hundred feet below, and being above sea level altitude and height are not nice round numbers. I really flew the tracks and numbers and was double checking. Extra vigilance that night. No room for errors!

[hazza4257]

Thoughts on RMIT Bachelor of Aviation for 2020?

I’ve applied for the RMIT Bachelor of Applied Sciences (Aviation) - Pilot Stream course for 2020 and am wondering what people’s thoughts are on it. I have also applied for Swinburne aviation so which one should I choose?

[Stickshift3000]

Originally Posted by albatraoz

Hey guys,

I'm a 28-year-old looking to change their career. Is anybody able to recommend a flying school in Sydney / Bankstown?[

I’m a decade older than you but did the same thing in Vic. My advice is to go and introduce yourself at several flying schools/clubs, and chat with the head flying instructor about your goals and the services they can offer you. These people, along with their colleagues, are who you’ll need a good relationship with to work towards your goals. Sometimes the smaller operations can offer more personalised services, at least that’s what I found.

For ab-initio (initial) flying training you can often get better value for your money at less busy uncontrolled (no tower) regional airports (even if it involves a longer commute), as you’ll be spending more time in the air and less time on the ground with the engine running ($$).

Go for it - it’s your own aviation journey, you’ll need to find what suits you best.

[ruralaviator]

Cadetships in Oceania

What are peoples opinions on the Pilot cadetships available in the Aus/NZ Region. Is it worth it vs going on the non sponsored track from general aviation to the airlines? Thanks in advance

[tail wheel]

Obviously not for yourself ruralaviator as your other post states: "I'm currently a captain flying the 747-400F out of Israel on an FAA Validation and my contracts up in December. I have 28,000 hrs with 13000 hours on the 747."

I assume the query is for a son or daughter? Reading these forums for 23 years, it is obvious no two opinions are the same, so what suits one may not suit another. Where does the potential student want to end up and do they have the aptitude and commitment to get there?

• Cadetships cost 50% to 100% more than the traditional flying school route.
• An aviation degree does not appear to be a pre requisite to airline employment.
• An airline job or airline front row seat on graduation is not guaranteed.
• I still don't understand how an airline college graduate to airline FO gets the required command hours and experience to ultimately obtain an ATPL and airline command?

Conversely, what is this general aviation track you speak of? For a variety of reasons - including over regulation and a Regulator determined to wipe out GA - it appears extremely difficult to find a worthwhile GA pilot job that offers security and aircraft type advancement to gain the required hours and experience for an airline job. Additionally, with Qantas and Virgin establishing commercial "pilot academies" and talking 250 to 400 pilot "graduates" per year, I suspect the transition from GA to airlines will be increasingly difficult in the future.

With all these new airline colleges, there will obviously be a demand for instructors, but the airlines are very reluctant to employ a pilot whose predominant experience is 2,000 one hour circuits in a SE aircraft.

Has your son/daughter thought of an alternate career with a real future - medicine, engineering, IT?

[dr dre]

Cadetships cost 50% to 100% more than the traditional flying school route.

Approx $125k for an integrated Cadetship. Ready to start employment as an airline FO after graduation. For the “traditional” route budget at least $100k by the time licences, ratings, theory etc is taken into account. So not too much more, and far greater opportunities for initial employment into an airline and faster progression afterwards. Overall you’d make back the slightly higher cost of a Cadetship within a few years, and over the course of a career have higher overall earnings.

An aviation degree does not appear to be a pre requisite to airline employment.

No, but some university programs now have industry links upon graduation. Worth looking into.

An airline job or airline front row seat on graduation is not guaranteed.

Nothings guaranteed in life. The economy may take a downturn, you may not meet the required standards on course. But you will surely be in a better position than someone who gained their CPL from a normal flying school without any association with an airline. It does seem the vast majority of Cadetship graduates end up working for that airline. If you looked at a number of those who got a CPL from a normal flying school how many would be in an airline after 1 year, 2 years or even 5?

I still don't understand how an airline college graduate to airline FO gets the required command hours and experience to ultimately obtain an ATPL and airline command?

It’s all explained very clearly on the CASA website regarding ATPL requirements:

“Pilot in command (PIC) or pilot in command under supervision (PICUS) flight time:

500 hours in aeroplanes as PICUS or 250 hours in aeroplanes comprising at least 70 hours as PIC (the rest may be PIC or PICUS)”

Getting your air transport pilot licence

For a variety of reasons - including over regulation and a Regulator determined to wipe out GA - it appears extremely difficult to find a worthwhile GA pilot job that offers security and aircraft type advancement to gain the required hours and experience for an airline job. Additionally, with Qantas and Virgin establishing commercial "pilot academies" and talking 250 to 400 pilot "graduates" per year, I suspect the transition from GA to airlines will be increasingly difficult in the future.

So wouldn’t it be wise to concentrate into applying for a Cadetship as the primary goal?

With all these new airline colleges, there will obviously be a demand for instructors, but the airlines are very reluctant to employ a pilot whose predominant experience is 2,000 one hour circuits in a SE aircraft.

Not necessarily, experience as an instructor will be more than single engined circuits. It is actually common for instructors to go straight from GA instructing into an airline.

Has your son/daughter thought of an alternate career with a real future - medicine, engineering, IT?

Google “Don’t become a doctor/engineer/teacher/lawyer/ insert profession here” and you’ll find plenty of articles advising youngsters not to go into that field, like this one:

Mamas, Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Doctors

We all seem to think we have it worse than every other profession. Any pressures on professional piloting seem to be ones that will affect all industries. Overall it’s still a well paid career that opens a lot of doors.

[A380flyer1]

I've been taking up flying lessons at Melton Flying School. Haven't looked in Essendon as been told they must fly to Point Cook airport and that time deducts from your flight lesson. They can't train from Essendon directly due to it being in the airspace of Tulla airport.

[Thumb War]

Originally Posted by Cailan

As I have no experience with real IFR to go from full glass back to steam does it face a disadvantage? Because I feel it would be similar cost to do it in a DA42 as apossed to a steam twin which are very common. But it would be easier to learn glass now and cheaper as not many full glass cockpits are around. Then when i need to do my review just do it in a steam gauge. But I'm worried about jumping in a barron after a DA42 and feeling overwhelmed or undertrained. Any suggestions or real life experience about these problems would be awesome?

Start with steam gauges and learn glass later - if and when you need it. As you said, there aren’t as many glass cockpits in the aircraft you’re talking about. It’s much easier to adapt from steam to glass rather than the other way.

[AvGeek7]

Sorry about the late reply - I haven't logged in here for a bit ..yeah I completely understand what you're saying.. I have flown into YSCB and YMDG a few times and yes you do get close to the hills (especially runway 30 for YSCB) ..

Yeah I have rescheduled the exam to January ..it will give me enough time to study and get it right! .

PS: I just gave my first CPL exam - Aerodynamics ..and passed it..so my confidence is back!

[Blueskys101]

Flight Training Essendon

Hey guy, looking at doing flight training at Essendon. Close to home so the extra costs will prob match up to fuel and travel time.. feel free to inbox me the good and bad experiences with the Essendon schools. Seems like one of the schools would like 50% up front or paid in full for rpl. Looking at going ppl eventually but wanted to learn close to home so I can get more than one lesson in a week. I know most of them use bacchus marsh training area but I guess I’m still learning as we are flying to bacchus marsh? Thanks for your imput and blue skys and safe flying to you all

[JohnnoP]

CPL exam results summary

Hey,
Does anyone know if when you complete all your CPL exams you are given a summary of results including passes and failures?
Upon completing a resit recently my print out with the KDR's made no mention of it being the second attempt! Just wondering how anyone would know how many attempts you've had.
Cheers.

[aviator777]

A Pre-requisite report is requested by some airlines. It shows all results. You can obtain one from CASA for a fee.