Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)
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Originally Posted by Dashy13
Very subjective question but here goes.
I am currently 18 and would like to join the RAAF in mid 2024 to pursue my goal of becoming a fighter pilot. I have put between 15 and 20 hours towards my RPL just over a year ago but stopped due to my final year of school.
I have recently finished school, and am thinking towards the future. I have other goals I would like to pursue other than flying, and would want to start achieving those sooner rather than later, as they will take time.
My main question is regarding the fast jet role, and the minimum service time for such.
As far as I can find on the ADF website, it states that there is a 11.5 year commitment for Direct Entry Officers or a 1-6 year commitment through general entry. What would be my best option to become a fast jet pilot, but also serve for the least amount of time so I can pursue my other goals?
Cheers
I am currently 18 and would like to join the RAAF in mid 2024 to pursue my goal of becoming a fighter pilot. I have put between 15 and 20 hours towards my RPL just over a year ago but stopped due to my final year of school.
I have recently finished school, and am thinking towards the future. I have other goals I would like to pursue other than flying, and would want to start achieving those sooner rather than later, as they will take time.
My main question is regarding the fast jet role, and the minimum service time for such.
As far as I can find on the ADF website, it states that there is a 11.5 year commitment for Direct Entry Officers or a 1-6 year commitment through general entry. What would be my best option to become a fast jet pilot, but also serve for the least amount of time so I can pursue my other goals?
Cheers
As an 18 year old you may have ideas of how you want your life to play out, but I can guarantee you, opportunities will arise in the next few years which will lead you down pathways you'd never think you'd be going down. My advice is forget the "other goals" and focus on one thing for now.
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Alot of debt
Hey, I'm a new joiner that would like to ask for some advice on jobs and whether anyone else is in my situation on the level of VET debt they have.
Three years ago, I finished the CPL, Instrument Rating, and Instructor Rating (well Instructor Rating was a recent achievement), almost all on VET debt. I also applied for a small loan for some of this training. The total cost of everything from 0 hours to full graduate is $161,000 (AUD).
I'm also 42 years old and made the switch from Call Centre to becoming a Professional Pilot around 39. I am now struggling to get a mortgage because the banks loan against the VET debt (which I didn't know until it was too late).
Before the Instructor Rating, I also drove to Broome and across to Katherine and remained in Katherine for 6 months post-CPL until I got broken into & decided to leave and do the Instructor Rating down south again. Thanks to the helpful advice here, I went "north" but was not successful in a job but didn't like the crime wave moving from Alice Springs (it's worse now apparently).
It is just me but are others struggling to get a Grade 3 job or any type of entry-level flying job? I spoke to a CP on the Gold Coast over the phone who had over 30 applications for a recent Grade 3 position. Unfortunately, I was lured into flight training at my midlife thinking I'd have no problems getting a job at the end, while spending the rest of my life paying off the debt. I've now gone back to my original Call Centre position in the south and not sure on the next move.
Grant
P.s. Thank you everyone for the 'go north' advice. It didn't pay off for me but the experience of the wet season (from the ground), Kakadu, and drive in general is really great.
Three years ago, I finished the CPL, Instrument Rating, and Instructor Rating (well Instructor Rating was a recent achievement), almost all on VET debt. I also applied for a small loan for some of this training. The total cost of everything from 0 hours to full graduate is $161,000 (AUD).
I'm also 42 years old and made the switch from Call Centre to becoming a Professional Pilot around 39. I am now struggling to get a mortgage because the banks loan against the VET debt (which I didn't know until it was too late).
Before the Instructor Rating, I also drove to Broome and across to Katherine and remained in Katherine for 6 months post-CPL until I got broken into & decided to leave and do the Instructor Rating down south again. Thanks to the helpful advice here, I went "north" but was not successful in a job but didn't like the crime wave moving from Alice Springs (it's worse now apparently).
It is just me but are others struggling to get a Grade 3 job or any type of entry-level flying job? I spoke to a CP on the Gold Coast over the phone who had over 30 applications for a recent Grade 3 position. Unfortunately, I was lured into flight training at my midlife thinking I'd have no problems getting a job at the end, while spending the rest of my life paying off the debt. I've now gone back to my original Call Centre position in the south and not sure on the next move.
Grant
P.s. Thank you everyone for the 'go north' advice. It didn't pay off for me but the experience of the wet season (from the ground), Kakadu, and drive in general is really great.
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Originally Posted by grant.lebronte
Hey, I'm a new joiner that would like to ask for some advice on jobs and whether anyone else is in my situation on the level of VET debt they have.
Three years ago, I finished the CPL, Instrument Rating, and Instructor Rating (well Instructor Rating was a recent achievement), almost all on VET debt. I also applied for a small loan for some of this training. The total cost of everything from 0 hours to full graduate is $161,000 (AUD).
I'm also 42 years old and made the switch from Call Centre to becoming a Professional Pilot around 39. I am now struggling to get a mortgage because the banks loan against the VET debt (which I didn't know until it was too late).
Before the Instructor Rating, I also drove to Broome and across to Katherine and remained in Katherine for 6 months post-CPL until I got broken into & decided to leave and do the Instructor Rating down south again. Thanks to the helpful advice here, I went "north" but was not successful in a job but didn't like the crime wave moving from Alice Springs (it's worse now apparently).
It is just me but are others struggling to get a Grade 3 job or any type of entry-level flying job? I spoke to a CP on the Gold Coast over the phone who had over 30 applications for a recent Grade 3 position. Unfortunately, I was lured into flight training at my midlife thinking I'd have no problems getting a job at the end, while spending the rest of my life paying off the debt. I've now gone back to my original Call Centre position in the south and not sure on the next move.
Grant
P.s. Thank you everyone for the 'go north' advice. It didn't pay off for me but the experience of the wet season (from the ground), Kakadu, and drive in general is really great.
Three years ago, I finished the CPL, Instrument Rating, and Instructor Rating (well Instructor Rating was a recent achievement), almost all on VET debt. I also applied for a small loan for some of this training. The total cost of everything from 0 hours to full graduate is $161,000 (AUD).
I'm also 42 years old and made the switch from Call Centre to becoming a Professional Pilot around 39. I am now struggling to get a mortgage because the banks loan against the VET debt (which I didn't know until it was too late).
Before the Instructor Rating, I also drove to Broome and across to Katherine and remained in Katherine for 6 months post-CPL until I got broken into & decided to leave and do the Instructor Rating down south again. Thanks to the helpful advice here, I went "north" but was not successful in a job but didn't like the crime wave moving from Alice Springs (it's worse now apparently).
It is just me but are others struggling to get a Grade 3 job or any type of entry-level flying job? I spoke to a CP on the Gold Coast over the phone who had over 30 applications for a recent Grade 3 position. Unfortunately, I was lured into flight training at my midlife thinking I'd have no problems getting a job at the end, while spending the rest of my life paying off the debt. I've now gone back to my original Call Centre position in the south and not sure on the next move.
Grant
P.s. Thank you everyone for the 'go north' advice. It didn't pay off for me but the experience of the wet season (from the ground), Kakadu, and drive in general is really great.
Haha yeah mate I'm sort of in the same boat here - did all three tickets on VET with a CPL in hand 3 years ago, been all around the top end and never found a job, but loved the experience anyway.
So if the bank considers VET debt in a mortgage application, what do they want to see before they'll give you a mortgage? A higher income than if you didn't have the debt?
I feel like a lot of flight schools are in love with themselves. Ya know the old "we teach it this way and we think it is the best way / better than the school down the road". Funny thing is the schools with that attitude either have no practical experience flying or did their stint in rough and tough GA like 30 years ago. I have cold called and resume dropped a number of schools and whilst some are stand up blokes who will even tell you where else to resume drop, others are super tight and don't seem to care about you.
I don't know about you mate but I'd rather be flying than working in a god damn call centre. I know the feeling though, of not knowing what to do after having been around the whole country looking for a job.
I've come across a bit of work as of last week which will involve some flying, and I found work late last year for about 30 hrs of paid flying. Both these gigs have come from people I know, not from resume dropping, emailing or cold-calling. So with the big entry level operators in the top end, like you said, I'm pretty sure after I drop in a resume somewhere and have a chat with the big dog, another two dozen more charismatic, well connected, skilled people come in after me. Anyway might be good if your next move is to just network a bit more? There are fellas (farmers, tradies, doctors) with planes all round the country that need flying, not just in the top end. If you properly get into the circles around Melbourne ya never know who might have a mate who needs a guy to do some flying.
The worst thing is knowing fellas who have gotten jobs straight out of flight school / a couple months after moving up north. It kind of makes it seem even more impossible and out of reach. I mean, good on em, some of them are working in sh*t conditions, like being shafted with their pay, being based out remote for years, or being psychologically manipulated (yes you know who I'm talking about).
Another thing that helped me not stress so much about not having a flying job after so long of looking / so long post CPL, was broadening my world beyond flying. I started doing my licences in high school and a huge part of my identity was flying. Recently I've broadened out and started doing all kinds of other things and getting involved with other groups. Flying is nowhere near as huge to me now and there are jobs on the ground I'd probably take over jobs in the air.
Also if you have an FPC that is due that's a great opportunity to get a job. Some flight schools seem to hate hiring G3s they don't know...
Grant & Blood,
Speaking as an employer, I have found that Grade 3s take a lot of time and supervision to become an autonomous and productive part of the team (no surprises there, but needs to be said). For a smaller organisation, they might simply find it unworkable to devote the attention of a Grade 1 in this way.
My advice to you as a jobseeker is to ensure you can
- offer other valuable skills; and/or
- demonstrate similar skills eg; hospitality skills that transfer into an Aviation/Customer service setting.
We have never employed Grade 3s before COVID but of the 3 since June 2020, all were flying ME Charter as part of their work mix within 12 months.
Marketing spin and "unique selling points" aside, it is a lot easier to employ you as a Grade 3 if you have learnt to fly AND earnt your Instructor rating using the same briefs, patter, aeroplanes and admin as the school already uses,
Good luck with it
Speaking as an employer, I have found that Grade 3s take a lot of time and supervision to become an autonomous and productive part of the team (no surprises there, but needs to be said). For a smaller organisation, they might simply find it unworkable to devote the attention of a Grade 1 in this way.
My advice to you as a jobseeker is to ensure you can
- offer other valuable skills; and/or
- demonstrate similar skills eg; hospitality skills that transfer into an Aviation/Customer service setting.
We have never employed Grade 3s before COVID but of the 3 since June 2020, all were flying ME Charter as part of their work mix within 12 months.
Ya know the old "we teach it this way and we think it is the best way / better than the school down the road".
Good luck with it
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Thanks for this! do you think the chances are really slim of getting a G3 job if you do the G3 course with flight school X but apply for a G3 position with flight school Y?
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Originally Posted by bloodandiron
Haha yeah mate I'm sort of in the same boat here - did all three tickets on VET with a CPL in hand 3 years ago, been all around the top end and never found a job, but loved the experience anyway.
So if the bank considers VET debt in a mortgage application, what do they want to see before they'll give you a mortgage? A higher income than if you didn't have the debt?
I feel like a lot of flight schools are in love with themselves. Ya know the old "we teach it this way and we think it is the best way / better than the school down the road". Funny thing is the schools with that attitude either have no practical experience flying or did their stint in rough and tough GA like 30 years ago. I have cold called and resume dropped a number of schools and whilst some are stand up blokes who will even tell you where else to resume drop, others are super tight and don't seem to care about you.
I don't know about you mate but I'd rather be flying than working in a god damn call centre. I know the feeling though, of not knowing what to do after having been around the whole country looking for a job.
I've come across a bit of work as of last week which will involve some flying, and I found work late last year for about 30 hrs of paid flying. Both these gigs have come from people I know, not from resume dropping, emailing or cold-calling. So with the big entry level operators in the top end, like you said, I'm pretty sure after I drop in a resume somewhere and have a chat with the big dog, another two dozen more charismatic, well connected, skilled people come in after me. Anyway might be good if your next move is to just network a bit more? There are fellas (farmers, tradies, doctors) with planes all round the country that need flying, not just in the top end. If you properly get into the circles around Melbourne ya never know who might have a mate who needs a guy to do some flying.
The worst thing is knowing fellas who have gotten jobs straight out of flight school / a couple months after moving up north. It kind of makes it seem even more impossible and out of reach. I mean, good on em, some of them are working in sh*t conditions, like being shafted with their pay, being based out remote for years, or being psychologically manipulated (yes you know who I'm talking about).
Another thing that helped me not stress so much about not having a flying job after so long of looking / so long post CPL, was broadening my world beyond flying. I started doing my licences in high school and a huge part of my identity was flying. Recently I've broadened out and started doing all kinds of other things and getting involved with other groups. Flying is nowhere near as huge to me now and there are jobs on the ground I'd probably take over jobs in the air.
Also if you have an FPC that is due that's a great opportunity to get a job. Some flight schools seem to hate hiring G3s they don't know...
So if the bank considers VET debt in a mortgage application, what do they want to see before they'll give you a mortgage? A higher income than if you didn't have the debt?
I feel like a lot of flight schools are in love with themselves. Ya know the old "we teach it this way and we think it is the best way / better than the school down the road". Funny thing is the schools with that attitude either have no practical experience flying or did their stint in rough and tough GA like 30 years ago. I have cold called and resume dropped a number of schools and whilst some are stand up blokes who will even tell you where else to resume drop, others are super tight and don't seem to care about you.
I don't know about you mate but I'd rather be flying than working in a god damn call centre. I know the feeling though, of not knowing what to do after having been around the whole country looking for a job.
I've come across a bit of work as of last week which will involve some flying, and I found work late last year for about 30 hrs of paid flying. Both these gigs have come from people I know, not from resume dropping, emailing or cold-calling. So with the big entry level operators in the top end, like you said, I'm pretty sure after I drop in a resume somewhere and have a chat with the big dog, another two dozen more charismatic, well connected, skilled people come in after me. Anyway might be good if your next move is to just network a bit more? There are fellas (farmers, tradies, doctors) with planes all round the country that need flying, not just in the top end. If you properly get into the circles around Melbourne ya never know who might have a mate who needs a guy to do some flying.
The worst thing is knowing fellas who have gotten jobs straight out of flight school / a couple months after moving up north. It kind of makes it seem even more impossible and out of reach. I mean, good on em, some of them are working in sh*t conditions, like being shafted with their pay, being based out remote for years, or being psychologically manipulated (yes you know who I'm talking about).
Another thing that helped me not stress so much about not having a flying job after so long of looking / so long post CPL, was broadening my world beyond flying. I started doing my licences in high school and a huge part of my identity was flying. Recently I've broadened out and started doing all kinds of other things and getting involved with other groups. Flying is nowhere near as huge to me now and there are jobs on the ground I'd probably take over jobs in the air.
Also if you have an FPC that is due that's a great opportunity to get a job. Some flight schools seem to hate hiring G3s they don't know...
I definitely don't enjoy the Call Centre life! But I don't really have a choice until something gives in the flying industry.
You are right though, it seems to be a "networking game" and the guy/gal that can network the best will "win" that coveted C210 position :-) When I was in the Top End, I did notice quite a few guys are getting jobs with a GA Ready Course? It's a big sigh as it's another $5,000 (or close to) for C210 time (they claim is 5 to 10 hours) but you are essentially paying for your own ICUS. My next step is to re-charge my savings and do this GA Ready thing. Did you come across this?
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Hi all,
I am hoping someone may be able to help me out with something.
I started flying in 2020, learning in a PA28, let's just say It took me a little longer to reach solo, I needed 35 hours over the course of 18months. Thank you covid! However I did manage to do 5 x solo circuits.
Anyway, after going solo we had locked down again and I was over it by this point so I took a break and decided I would return to flying once I knew lockdowns were definitely over. Fast forward another 18 months and I am in a C152 starting from the beginning.
Has anyone made the transition between the two and felt uncomfortable in the C152? I was confident in the PA28 (eventually), I didn't seem to feel the wind or turbulence to the level that a C152 feels. Now I feel like I am not in control the same way I was and flying is back to being a challenging experience rather than one I was confident doing.
Is it just one of those things that I've had too long a break and it really is starting again because I felt having previous experience I would be comfortable with switching to a C152. Going solo seems like such a huge hurdle.
I hope someone can share their thoughts, this forum has been a safe and educational space.
Chopz
I am hoping someone may be able to help me out with something.
I started flying in 2020, learning in a PA28, let's just say It took me a little longer to reach solo, I needed 35 hours over the course of 18months. Thank you covid! However I did manage to do 5 x solo circuits.
Anyway, after going solo we had locked down again and I was over it by this point so I took a break and decided I would return to flying once I knew lockdowns were definitely over. Fast forward another 18 months and I am in a C152 starting from the beginning.
Has anyone made the transition between the two and felt uncomfortable in the C152? I was confident in the PA28 (eventually), I didn't seem to feel the wind or turbulence to the level that a C152 feels. Now I feel like I am not in control the same way I was and flying is back to being a challenging experience rather than one I was confident doing.
Is it just one of those things that I've had too long a break and it really is starting again because I felt having previous experience I would be comfortable with switching to a C152. Going solo seems like such a huge hurdle.
I hope someone can share their thoughts, this forum has been a safe and educational space.
Chopz
Originally Posted by Chopz
Has anyone made the transition between the two and felt uncomfortable in the C152? I was confident in the PA28 (eventually), I didn't seem to feel the wind or turbulence to the level that a C152 feels. Now I feel like I am not in control the same way I was and flying is back to being a challenging experience rather than one I was confident doing.
Is it just one of those things that I've had too long a break and it really is starting again because I felt having previous experience I would be comfortable with switching to a C152. Going solo seems like such a huge hurdle.
Is it just one of those things that I've had too long a break and it really is starting again because I felt having previous experience I would be comfortable with switching to a C152. Going solo seems like such a huge hurdle.
Cessnas and Pipers (high wing vs low wing) really are very different aircraft and really do 'feel' different. As a low hour student, how you feeI is going to be really important to your ability to learn the important stuff - operating the aircraft - and moving to something completely different will certainly cost you more in hours, so I'd suggest you stay with the PA28 - at least until after going solo.
Core stick and rudder flying skills are essential and my opinion is that the Cessna 152 is the best ab initio trainer around to achieve that. I see some types used in basic training which are really unsuitable for that purpose - even the POH of some prohibit manoeuvres required by CASA Part 61.
I get some wanting a tailwheel endorsement who have only flown a PA-28 previously and I know it will take much longer so I advise them to do some dual circuits in a 152 first to save some money.
I get some wanting a tailwheel endorsement who have only flown a PA-28 previously and I know it will take much longer so I advise them to do some dual circuits in a 152 first to save some money.
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You fellas that did CPL, Instructor and Instrument Ratings on FEE-HELP, who advised you to do all three in quick succession? Did anybody tell you you've got sweet **** all chance of getting an IFR job with a bare commercial and an instrument rating? Did anyone tell you that flight training schools couldn't give a rats arse about your instrument rating when you're applying for a G3 position? Did anyone tell you it'll be at least 3 to 5 years before you use that Instrument Rating? (so why do it?) Did any of you do research on the job market before you committed to a loan that would still buy a house in some regional areas? The historical cyclical nature of aviation recruitment? Did any of you read Fate Is The Hunter? Or Biggles books? Or any cool aviation books?
Do any of you know who Charles Kingsford Smith is? Or Nancy Bird? Or Geraldine Mock? Have any of you done a flight to a really cool outback destination with your mates, like Birdsville. Or the Bathurst 1000?
Do any of you know who Charles Kingsford Smith is? Or Nancy Bird? Or Geraldine Mock? Have any of you done a flight to a really cool outback destination with your mates, like Birdsville. Or the Bathurst 1000?
Originally Posted by tossbag
You fellas that did CPL, Instructor and Instrument Ratings on FEE-HELP, who advised you to do all three in quick succession? Did anybody tell you you've got sweet **** all chance of getting an IFR job with a bare commercial and an instrument rating? Did anyone tell you it'll be at least 3 to 5 years before you use that Instrument Rating? (so why do it?)
Did any of you read Fate Is The Hunter? Or Biggles books? Or any cool aviation books?
A passion for aviation is good, but that doesn't necessarily translate to competence.
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