Merged: Mid-air collision at Moorabbin
How many people killed on the roads in Victoria yesterday? Do we ban cars from Victorian roads?
How many people crash into trains at level crossings each year in Victoria?Do we ban all trains in Victoria?
How many people commit suicide each year due to gambling away their money on the pokies? Do we ban the pokies?
How may people overdosed on drugs yesterday in Victoria? Do we ban drug dealers?
Unfortunately a young man did lose his life in an aeroplane accident yesterday.
Now every "expert" comes out and gives the media their half baked opinions and of cause every journalist goes for the "death dive", granny lives in fear of her life, noise, fear, low flying aircraft etc.
Lets keep YMMB open for aviation.
No doubt Mr Uren will be networking his grubby little ALP mates to close it down so that his life isn't in danger.
And "Robert" who was quick to give his opinion to the media, obviously you are the president of the Cheltenham Mensa branch or a legend in your own lunch-box.
How many people crash into trains at level crossings each year in Victoria?Do we ban all trains in Victoria?
How many people commit suicide each year due to gambling away their money on the pokies? Do we ban the pokies?
How may people overdosed on drugs yesterday in Victoria? Do we ban drug dealers?
Unfortunately a young man did lose his life in an aeroplane accident yesterday.
Now every "expert" comes out and gives the media their half baked opinions and of cause every journalist goes for the "death dive", granny lives in fear of her life, noise, fear, low flying aircraft etc.
Lets keep YMMB open for aviation.
No doubt Mr Uren will be networking his grubby little ALP mates to close it down so that his life isn't in danger.
And "Robert" who was quick to give his opinion to the media, obviously you are the president of the Cheltenham Mensa branch or a legend in your own lunch-box.
This is a tragedy. Full stop. End of story. The facts, as they invariably do, will come out in the investigation.
It angers and dismays me that the media (again) have so far managed to hype up all the usual crap associated with this incident. At least they got the tyes of planes right, so we should all be grateful for small mercies
To those who continue to bleat, whinge and moan that their precious world is so traumatised by living near an airport - get a life and face reality, folks.
You moved there, knowing full well there was an airport nearby (probably got the house cheap BECAUSE of it) so accept no blame, but for your own stupid, short term decisions. You infuriate me, you morons. If you truly hate it that much, then move. Problem solved - but judging by their mentality, I seriously doubt that they have the brain cells necessary to arrive at that simple solution.
As for the lady who stated on the news tonight "They come in and then KILL THEIR ENGINES so they can dive-bomb in and make the runway" (or words to that effect) - I have one thing to say to you.
"PUHHH-LEASSSSSE".
PS: John Brumby -you're an ill-informed idiot too. Yeah sure - all the trainee pilots wil just up-stumps and move to Lilydale or Pt Cook and other country areas, sure. No problems. Just wait for the backlash when the residents of those areas start to whinge, too and desert you at the next polls. You'll be singing a different tune then, sonny. Talk about a knee-jerk reaction.
To those affected by this incident, you have my hearfelt sympathies. As an ex RVAC student myself, I know that some of my aviation family are hurting a lot right now.
It angers and dismays me that the media (again) have so far managed to hype up all the usual crap associated with this incident. At least they got the tyes of planes right, so we should all be grateful for small mercies
To those who continue to bleat, whinge and moan that their precious world is so traumatised by living near an airport - get a life and face reality, folks.
You moved there, knowing full well there was an airport nearby (probably got the house cheap BECAUSE of it) so accept no blame, but for your own stupid, short term decisions. You infuriate me, you morons. If you truly hate it that much, then move. Problem solved - but judging by their mentality, I seriously doubt that they have the brain cells necessary to arrive at that simple solution.
As for the lady who stated on the news tonight "They come in and then KILL THEIR ENGINES so they can dive-bomb in and make the runway" (or words to that effect) - I have one thing to say to you.
"PUHHH-LEASSSSSE".
PS: John Brumby -you're an ill-informed idiot too. Yeah sure - all the trainee pilots wil just up-stumps and move to Lilydale or Pt Cook and other country areas, sure. No problems. Just wait for the backlash when the residents of those areas start to whinge, too and desert you at the next polls. You'll be singing a different tune then, sonny. Talk about a knee-jerk reaction.
To those affected by this incident, you have my hearfelt sympathies. As an ex RVAC student myself, I know that some of my aviation family are hurting a lot right now.
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Firstly - don't blame the neighbourhood residents from getting upset, they had something extraordinary happen in their lives and do not understand the first thing about what happens at a local airfield other than what they see and hear. The first response of course will be "how can we stop this from occurring again?.. I know shut down the airport." A typical kneejerk reaction that is fuelled on by the shameful media - they are the real bad guys here.
We, as passionate aviators who most likely lived and breathed aviation as a kid, need to stop speculating and complaining about their ignorance - its not their fault. Last time I checked, circuits 101 wasn’t covered at school. We instead need to educate them and the media; admittedly this is hard to do when the media know what makes a good story and not fact.
Their community would be far worse off without the jobs and business that a local airport generates. Added to that, how many of these people enjoy the sub $100 airfares around the country and then complain that they have to spend money on parking or a cab because the airport is so far away. But does anyone actually point this out to them? No we just label them as ignorant idiots and how is that going to change??
And as mentioned on an earlier post - the airport was there first. These residents thought at some stage 'I know I'm buying close to an airport but it is safe - right??" So a tragedy has occurred and temporarily changed that view for them - we need to ensure they believe it is safe again. After all, living on the coast - there is a risk of a tsunami right??
I am not going to speculate on what happened but as someone once told me "believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see."
As an ex GAAP flight instructor I will say this. GAAP's are a great safe training environment; sure sometimes things sometimes get hectic but statistically the system works and mistakes get caught and then on VERY rare occasions something tragic happens.
People always liken aviation accidents it to road fatalities - it needs to be pointed out that a fender bender in aviation is most likely going to turn into a fatality - when you think of that, aviation is truely VERY safe statistically. How many fender benders are there on the road per day??
Trainee pilots learn a lot very quickly is the environment, the ATC guys do a great job the instructors ensure that a student is 110% ready before being sent solo and you can't always predict what the traffic is going to be like 5 mins after you hop out of the aircraft and waive them off. In any event situational awareness is a major component of flight training so they can handle it otherwise we don't send them.
I agree talking about a tradgedy such as this helps us understand the issues in play and helps ensure that they are limited from reoccuring. However less negativity and more education is needed in this forum, and no name calling or making it into a speculative witch hunt of the innocent.
I commend the PA28 guy for making a landing with the stabiliser in the state that it was - this was truly a miraculous landing.
To the instructor who sent the student pilot solo - I really feel for you, I have had a few scares in aviation but my true fear was, what has happened to you, might someday happen to me and one of my students. We have to trust in the syllabus and checks we conduct. If he met the criteria why wouldn't you have sent him? It was an accident that could have happened to any instructor you were not at the controls and his fate was his own.
And of course my condolences to the student pilot and his family.
So do everyone a favour next time you talk about your near miss or aviation mishap - take the extra time to explain to the non-aviator what systems were in place that saved you.
Next time you hear someone complain about the airport or loud aircraft; point out all the good things in their life that they have because of them, e.g. emergency services, life saving transplants, ability to travel to see loved ones quickly and relatively cheaply, express courier services, shark spotting, firefighting, crimefighting or that memorable holiday (the list goes on and on). It's these things that the guys are pouring their blood, sweat and tears into a career for the community.
Be safe
and I hope this sort of tragedy will not occur again for a very long time.
We, as passionate aviators who most likely lived and breathed aviation as a kid, need to stop speculating and complaining about their ignorance - its not their fault. Last time I checked, circuits 101 wasn’t covered at school. We instead need to educate them and the media; admittedly this is hard to do when the media know what makes a good story and not fact.
Their community would be far worse off without the jobs and business that a local airport generates. Added to that, how many of these people enjoy the sub $100 airfares around the country and then complain that they have to spend money on parking or a cab because the airport is so far away. But does anyone actually point this out to them? No we just label them as ignorant idiots and how is that going to change??
And as mentioned on an earlier post - the airport was there first. These residents thought at some stage 'I know I'm buying close to an airport but it is safe - right??" So a tragedy has occurred and temporarily changed that view for them - we need to ensure they believe it is safe again. After all, living on the coast - there is a risk of a tsunami right??
I am not going to speculate on what happened but as someone once told me "believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see."
As an ex GAAP flight instructor I will say this. GAAP's are a great safe training environment; sure sometimes things sometimes get hectic but statistically the system works and mistakes get caught and then on VERY rare occasions something tragic happens.
People always liken aviation accidents it to road fatalities - it needs to be pointed out that a fender bender in aviation is most likely going to turn into a fatality - when you think of that, aviation is truely VERY safe statistically. How many fender benders are there on the road per day??
Trainee pilots learn a lot very quickly is the environment, the ATC guys do a great job the instructors ensure that a student is 110% ready before being sent solo and you can't always predict what the traffic is going to be like 5 mins after you hop out of the aircraft and waive them off. In any event situational awareness is a major component of flight training so they can handle it otherwise we don't send them.
I agree talking about a tradgedy such as this helps us understand the issues in play and helps ensure that they are limited from reoccuring. However less negativity and more education is needed in this forum, and no name calling or making it into a speculative witch hunt of the innocent.
I commend the PA28 guy for making a landing with the stabiliser in the state that it was - this was truly a miraculous landing.
To the instructor who sent the student pilot solo - I really feel for you, I have had a few scares in aviation but my true fear was, what has happened to you, might someday happen to me and one of my students. We have to trust in the syllabus and checks we conduct. If he met the criteria why wouldn't you have sent him? It was an accident that could have happened to any instructor you were not at the controls and his fate was his own.
And of course my condolences to the student pilot and his family.
So do everyone a favour next time you talk about your near miss or aviation mishap - take the extra time to explain to the non-aviator what systems were in place that saved you.
Next time you hear someone complain about the airport or loud aircraft; point out all the good things in their life that they have because of them, e.g. emergency services, life saving transplants, ability to travel to see loved ones quickly and relatively cheaply, express courier services, shark spotting, firefighting, crimefighting or that memorable holiday (the list goes on and on). It's these things that the guys are pouring their blood, sweat and tears into a career for the community.
Be safe
and I hope this sort of tragedy will not occur again for a very long time.
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'Capt M' you bring good points to this chat but you simply cannot educate a non aviation person esspecially someone living close to an airport in 5 mins. to the goings on at an AD such as an AD is there for more than the 'fat cats'. This W/E the 'Close En Airport' Group will be out in force now armed with even more hysteria due the lattest event!
Ok the accident has happened & sadly it may very well happen again, lets hope next time it's just bent metal rather than bent minds that get out of shape with such ugly events.
Again am sure our thoughts are with the families involved.
CW
Ok the accident has happened & sadly it may very well happen again, lets hope next time it's just bent metal rather than bent minds that get out of shape with such ugly events.
Again am sure our thoughts are with the families involved.
CW
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Nice post capt.mofo.
But.....
Sadly, none of the above will sell any papers of make it onto A Current Affair.
Oh well - that's life.
Di
But.....
So do everyone a favour next time you talk about your near miss or aviation mishap - take the extra time to explain to the non-aviator what systems were in place that saved you.
Next time you hear someone complain about the airport or loud aircraft; point out all the good things in their life that they have because of them, e.g. emergency services, life saving transplants, ability to travel to see loved ones quickly and relatively cheaply, express courier services, shark spotting, firefighting, crimefighting or that memorable holiday (the list goes on and on). It's these things that the guys are pouring their blood, sweat and tears into a career for the community.
Next time you hear someone complain about the airport or loud aircraft; point out all the good things in their life that they have because of them, e.g. emergency services, life saving transplants, ability to travel to see loved ones quickly and relatively cheaply, express courier services, shark spotting, firefighting, crimefighting or that memorable holiday (the list goes on and on). It's these things that the guys are pouring their blood, sweat and tears into a career for the community.
Oh well - that's life.
Di
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Just sitting on the fence wondering what if any difficulties in communication where a factor in this tradgedy. I understand both pilots are Indian Citizens and can only assume English is their second language. Although they may have been able to speak english perfectly well, how many times have we all been hearing heavy accents over the radios these days and then wondered what did they just say?
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Just sitting on the fence wondering what if any difficulties in communication where a factor in this tradgedy. I understand both pilots are Indian Citizens and can only assume English is their second language. Although they may have been able to speak english perfectly well, how many times have we all been hearing heavy accents over the radios these days and then wondered what did they just say?
And having done an English Proficiency test myself, different accents are taken in to consideration when assessing your proficiency, in both speaking and listening.
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I understand both pilots are Indian Citizens and can only assume English is their second language.
This is English, and then there is Engrish, and there is a lot of variation. I know my accent is difficult for Septics. Asians don't seem to have any trouble as long as I don't talk too fast, or slowly...
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I understand both pilots are Indian Citizens and can only assume English is their second language.
Of course the accent can be a problem from time to time, I admit.
The Indian students I've met at RVAC have all had perfectly good English, and probably have a better grasp of comprehension, grammar and pronunciation than most Australians.
I seem to recall I wasn't very flash with my voice procedure as a student, I still occasionally get tongue tied and cop a gentle reminder from the YMMB Tower.
On the other hand I've listened to the Tower trying to get some sense out of the students of another school............."Which one are you? Number One, number Two or number Three? Can you waggle your wings for me?"
To put it another way, I'd be surprised if English was an issue.
I seem to recall I wasn't very flash with my voice procedure as a student, I still occasionally get tongue tied and cop a gentle reminder from the YMMB Tower.
On the other hand I've listened to the Tower trying to get some sense out of the students of another school............."Which one are you? Number One, number Two or number Three? Can you waggle your wings for me?"
To put it another way, I'd be surprised if English was an issue.
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I hope this sort of tragedy will not occur again for a very long time
Grandpa Aerotart
It serves no useful purpose venting at the ignorance of the general public and is a waste of breath venting at the media who are beyond help...I just don't buy their product.
Those that do deserve our wrath are political leaders like Brumby, Uren et al who know better but are quick to turn anything to their own base political benefit.
When are we going to get true leaders with the courage to tell the truth.
"Ladies and gentlemen we have witnessed a sad accident but aviation activities at airfields like Morrabin are incredibly safe overall, conducted with great discipline, essential national infrastructure and provide great benefits to the local community too. My Government will no sooner countenance calls for knee jerk restrictions based on this tragedy than we would close a road or waterway because of a similar tragedy in those areas. All life has risk which is unavoidable. My thoughts at this time are with the family and work mates of this unfortunate young man"
"I ask the media to show some uncharacteristic restraint at this time and let the ATSB do their job...thankyou"
That is all it would take...a few leaders capable of seeing the communal benefit of blunt honesty
Those that do deserve our wrath are political leaders like Brumby, Uren et al who know better but are quick to turn anything to their own base political benefit.
When are we going to get true leaders with the courage to tell the truth.
"Ladies and gentlemen we have witnessed a sad accident but aviation activities at airfields like Morrabin are incredibly safe overall, conducted with great discipline, essential national infrastructure and provide great benefits to the local community too. My Government will no sooner countenance calls for knee jerk restrictions based on this tragedy than we would close a road or waterway because of a similar tragedy in those areas. All life has risk which is unavoidable. My thoughts at this time are with the family and work mates of this unfortunate young man"
"I ask the media to show some uncharacteristic restraint at this time and let the ATSB do their job...thankyou"
That is all it would take...a few leaders capable of seeing the communal benefit of blunt honesty
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My sincere condolences to the family of the student killed and the students and instructors of the RVAC.
It was not long after starting my training last year that my admiration for flight instructors and their faith in their students sky-rocketed (especially after my first solo). Now I have my PPL my admiration is unabated. General aviation is inherently more dangerous than driving a car (statistically on par with riding a motorbike). But we all know that proper maintenance and good training minimises those risks. From my limited experience the standards in this country are high. Most of the danger rests with our own neglect.
There is no point bagging the public and journos. The former are ignorant of flying matters and the latter need to make a living. In my other professional life I learnt long ago putting up walls helps no one. You have to deal with reality in a positive way. Aviation needs to sell itself better.
Do aero clubs/flight schools invite local residents and groups (like those led by Tom Uren - I assume he is not the Sydney Tom Uren) to airfields for familiarisation re flying and training and how everyone in aviation - ATC/pilots/mechanics/regulators - makes safety the number one priority? As long as the public are ignorant the media has a fertile market.
Excuse me if this is already done but something ain't working!
It was not long after starting my training last year that my admiration for flight instructors and their faith in their students sky-rocketed (especially after my first solo). Now I have my PPL my admiration is unabated. General aviation is inherently more dangerous than driving a car (statistically on par with riding a motorbike). But we all know that proper maintenance and good training minimises those risks. From my limited experience the standards in this country are high. Most of the danger rests with our own neglect.
There is no point bagging the public and journos. The former are ignorant of flying matters and the latter need to make a living. In my other professional life I learnt long ago putting up walls helps no one. You have to deal with reality in a positive way. Aviation needs to sell itself better.
Do aero clubs/flight schools invite local residents and groups (like those led by Tom Uren - I assume he is not the Sydney Tom Uren) to airfields for familiarisation re flying and training and how everyone in aviation - ATC/pilots/mechanics/regulators - makes safety the number one priority? As long as the public are ignorant the media has a fertile market.
Excuse me if this is already done but something ain't working!
I'm with Jaba! I'll vote for Chimbu for P.M. if he keeps making such common sense statements.
.....Oh wait a minute.... that's why he's not a pollie ..... too much common sense!! Ah well.
.....Oh wait a minute.... that's why he's not a pollie ..... too much common sense!! Ah well.