Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA
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Keep on track for a grade movement for EVERYONE.
That might correct the discriminating nature of the proposal.
As for recompense for antics like the scab hiring fiasco?
How much did the hot scab affair cost anyhow? Johnny V.?
That might correct the discriminating nature of the proposal.
As for recompense for antics like the scab hiring fiasco?
How much did the hot scab affair cost anyhow? Johnny V.?
Last edited by division1; 20th Mar 2008 at 00:36.
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The Heavy Maint guys have made a stand now it's time to get behind them and make sure all airlines that are run in Aus do their maint onshore. 
Qantas - Mel, Avv, Bne not SIA, SIEAC, HAECO, MAES or Lufthansa
Virgin - Anywhere in Aus not NZ as they are doing now and have always done
Jetstar - JHAS not Lufthansa
AUSSIE OWNED SHOULD BE AUSSIE MAINTAINED
Sorry for slight thread drift
Qantas - Mel, Avv, Bne not SIA, SIEAC, HAECO, MAES or Lufthansa
Virgin - Anywhere in Aus not NZ as they are doing now and have always done
Jetstar - JHAS not Lufthansa
AUSSIE OWNED SHOULD BE AUSSIE MAINTAINED
Sorry for slight thread drift
Level rise for all!!!---NOT SO!
PIOT BORD,
not everyone gets a level rise,if u are in the upper levels and do not get a type course-u will not get a rise even if u have 4 or more service points.
not everyone gets a level rise,if u are in the upper levels and do not get a type course-u will not get a rise even if u have 4 or more service points.
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blubak - If you read my post again you will find we are in total agreement.
One more time for Johnny V though, just in case he hasn't picked it up.
From the straw pole I have taken, removing 'HM flexibilities' was a step forward but not enough to get the EBA voted up. Go back to the puppet masters and tell them to ensure every LAME gets a level increase, no ifs, no buts. We are sick of hearing of the 5 or 6 possible scenarios where Qantas 'is unable to guarantee' that every LAME will go up a level.
Get a guaranteed level increase for ALL LAMEs announced Johnny, and I'll let you know if we are any closer to a successful vote.
One more time for Johnny V though, just in case he hasn't picked it up.
Truth is we have enough company puppets and self loving LAMEs to get this up, bye bye Exec
Get a guaranteed level increase for ALL LAMEs announced Johnny, and I'll let you know if we are any closer to a successful vote.
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good on ya PIOT BORD just thinking of LAME's that are there what about future LAME's,the base for an entry lvl is still to low,there is no reason for anyone to ever come over to QF with such a poor entry lvl pay,this is like the old AME b scale,will cause many problems in the future
The lower levels of the LAME pay scale have always been rather atrocious, its always been approx the same as an AME level 12, and less then an AME level 13. What a joke.
In the past no one really did care as training flowed, people knew they would be on a course and a pay rise would come out of it. Combine it with some years of service and LAME level 8 or 9 isn't too hard to achieve for people who were in Qantas 10 years ago.
What has changed now, going off the past few years, we now know that training will not be getting handed out to anyone but the golden few. The prospects of someone at level 3 is to continue to get paid less then some people they are supposed to be supervising and very few dollars above most people they are supervising. They know the only way they will get a pay rise is to sit on the arse and wait 4 years for a $70/week pay rise.. A 40 year old LAME new to the company is expected to wait 20 years to get to a respectable level 8 pay scale... not that anyone expects to be employed by Qantas engineering in 20 years that is......
In the past no one really did care as training flowed, people knew they would be on a course and a pay rise would come out of it. Combine it with some years of service and LAME level 8 or 9 isn't too hard to achieve for people who were in Qantas 10 years ago.
What has changed now, going off the past few years, we now know that training will not be getting handed out to anyone but the golden few. The prospects of someone at level 3 is to continue to get paid less then some people they are supposed to be supervising and very few dollars above most people they are supervising. They know the only way they will get a pay rise is to sit on the arse and wait 4 years for a $70/week pay rise.. A 40 year old LAME new to the company is expected to wait 20 years to get to a respectable level 8 pay scale... not that anyone expects to be employed by Qantas engineering in 20 years that is......
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*shakes head*
Let me put this as plainly as I can ...............
NOT SO !!
It's like the company saying......
We want a "Rape your wife and pillage your house" clause in the EBA.....
Then, when we say "No" and they say "OK, We won't rape your wife and pillage your house" you consider that a win !!!
Raping and pillaging WAS NOT ALREADY IN THE EBA, That was just on their wish-list...Their Ambit claim if you will.........
By them taking some of their wish-list out of their list of claims............
WE HAVEN'T GAINED SOMETHING !!!
By the same logic you'd think we've LOST everything that we never had, but was in the Associations ambit-claim ???
Maybe thats exaggerating the issue SpannerTwister,
the word we got was that the ALAEA wanted it in the proposal anyhow
and the rosters, efficiencies, etc were already agreed to outside the eba.
I now think someone has cooked up a pork pie on this one.
A major misunderstanding at the very least.
Let me put this as plainly as I can ...............
NOT SO !!
It's like the company saying......
We want a "Rape your wife and pillage your house" clause in the EBA.....
Then, when we say "No" and they say "OK, We won't rape your wife and pillage your house" you consider that a win !!!
Raping and pillaging WAS NOT ALREADY IN THE EBA, That was just on their wish-list...Their Ambit claim if you will.........
By them taking some of their wish-list out of their list of claims............
WE HAVEN'T GAINED SOMETHING !!!
By the same logic you'd think we've LOST everything that we never had, but was in the Associations ambit-claim ???
Maybe thats exaggerating the issue SpannerTwister,
the word we got was that the ALAEA wanted it in the proposal anyhow
and the rosters, efficiencies, etc were already agreed to outside the eba.
I now think someone has cooked up a pork pie on this one.
A major misunderstanding at the very least.
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ep - I never attempted to solve all the issues thrown up by 10 years of poor EBA negotiation. It was more of a step by step process. I guess I thought present members who have been affected for the past 10 years deserved priority over possible future members.
You do raise a good point, though. We do need to consider those who are yet to become LAMEs. Many have been poorly treated by QE management for the past 5 years.
Johnny V, please inform the puppet masters that there could still be a long way to go before we are able to get this EBA up.
You do raise a good point, though. We do need to consider those who are yet to become LAMEs. Many have been poorly treated by QE management for the past 5 years.
Johnny V, please inform the puppet masters that there could still be a long way to go before we are able to get this EBA up.
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well if you work in brisbane h/m, the next seems to be vote with your feet and head to the sandpit with Etihad 1 bloke already there 2 recently handed in the paperwork and 2 have recently got their start dates.
Get a guaranteed level increase for ALL LAMEs announced Johnny, and I'll let you know if we are any closer to a successful vote...
The lower levels of the LAME pay scale have always been rather atrocious, its always been approx the same as an AME level 12, and less then an AME level 13. What a joke.
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5 resigning from Brisbane HM is an under estimation. The number is greater than 10. They have been experiencing QE management's flexibilities with promises of great things to come. Unfortunately, management has never delivered. Unlike Qantas, great MROs are delivering right now, US$110,000 for a single licence and courses.
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2 just resigned from CBR both grade fives, both went to Virgin and got a 21g pay rise + EMB170/190 and jar license. Sick of this 
I think it's time to move on.....The circle of stupidity continues.....
Rumors are another 3 soon to go from CBR
I think it's time to move on.....The circle of stupidity continues..... Rumors are another 3 soon to go from CBR
Last edited by JETTRONIC; 23rd Mar 2008 at 11:19.
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I heard the same. If 5 go, that's a big dent in a workforce of 15.
If, as Milletfanger says, more than 10 have gone from the 55 in BNE Heavy, that's another big dent.
And apparently QE management doesn't see the loss of numbers as a problem "yet".
These are more than just the canaries in the mineshaft, a disaffected few. If I was a manager, it would cause me ructions, sleepless nights and a little introspection. "What is wrong with these LAMEs? They're just about to vote on the best EBA they've had in a decade - and they're leaving in droves?"
HELLO! You know what you need to do, so do it already. If you don't know, you shouldn't be there.
So GD has chucked a tanty and torn up the A330 onshore maintenance commitment after the HM eficiencies were voted out of the EBA by the HM LAMEs. As if they gave a sh*t anyway. Only 6 of 'em were gonna get A330 training. What a motivator!
If, as Milletfanger says, more than 10 have gone from the 55 in BNE Heavy, that's another big dent.
And apparently QE management doesn't see the loss of numbers as a problem "yet".
These are more than just the canaries in the mineshaft, a disaffected few. If I was a manager, it would cause me ructions, sleepless nights and a little introspection. "What is wrong with these LAMEs? They're just about to vote on the best EBA they've had in a decade - and they're leaving in droves?"
HELLO! You know what you need to do, so do it already. If you don't know, you shouldn't be there.
So GD has chucked a tanty and torn up the A330 onshore maintenance commitment after the HM eficiencies were voted out of the EBA by the HM LAMEs. As if they gave a sh*t anyway. Only 6 of 'em were gonna get A330 training. What a motivator!
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QF22:
The company has made no commitment at any point to enter into a heavy maintenance program on-shore for the A380. I would suggest it would be a financially unviable project given the existing end-to-end turn key programs already being offered by leading MROs, such as Emirates and Lufthansa Technik.
If the A330 maint stays offshore how about the A380, will JHAS get a look in after all ?
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Insider Trader said
Despite commentary appearing elsewhere to the contrary, this is clearly an exciting opportunity in the history of Qantas Engineering, with investment in new technologies and training making QE a leading MRO throughout world aviation circles.
and then quoted
The company has made no commitment at any point to enter into a heavy maintenance program on-shore for the A380. I would suggest it would be a financially unviable project given the existing end-to-end turn key programs already being offered by leading MROs, such as Emirates and Lufthansa Technik.
Hi DM
But you said we were a leading MRO.
Despite commentary appearing elsewhere to the contrary, this is clearly an exciting opportunity in the history of Qantas Engineering, with investment in new technologies and training making QE a leading MRO throughout world aviation circles.
and then quoted
The company has made no commitment at any point to enter into a heavy maintenance program on-shore for the A380. I would suggest it would be a financially unviable project given the existing end-to-end turn key programs already being offered by leading MROs, such as Emirates and Lufthansa Technik.
Hi DM
But you said we were a leading MRO.
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leading means your doing work for others and yourself,QF does not,management would not know how to but a quote together to save their families lives. ps sorry for the grammar i was very drunk when posting
Last edited by employes perspective; 25th Mar 2008 at 18:30.
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MENDAERO
Indeed!!!!! It resembles the rantings of our good friend chemical (two 'l') alli. And what exactly is an 'employes' and what is its perspective?
FCMC, yes QE IS a world class MRO, as are those others which i have mentioned. That is why it is important for QE to remain competitive in the global market, consolidating its existing worlds best practice with programs such as LEAN, and maintaining expenditure control. To introduce a new aircraft type within the existing synergies that QE have targeted would simply be uneconomical.
And just remember, it is encumbant on every QE employee to deliver worlds best practice every day. For those that don't think that is the case, then maybe you are the problem.
Quote:
leading means your doing work for ours,QF does not,management would now how to but a quote together to save their families lives
Could you please repeat that in english.
leading means your doing work for ours,QF does not,management would now how to but a quote together to save their families lives
Could you please repeat that in english.
FCMC, yes QE IS a world class MRO, as are those others which i have mentioned. That is why it is important for QE to remain competitive in the global market, consolidating its existing worlds best practice with programs such as LEAN, and maintaining expenditure control. To introduce a new aircraft type within the existing synergies that QE have targeted would simply be uneconomical.
And just remember, it is encumbant on every QE employee to deliver worlds best practice every day. For those that don't think that is the case, then maybe you are the problem.
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Hi Trader
YES YES we are the problem. It could never be managements. You are so right. SO lets fix it. VR please. Lets get rid of the troublemakers and start fresh. This could be fixed in a week. Lets do it!
Hey worlds best practice. Is that PARTSMART. Great idea! It was just $35 mill wasted but hey if we can save $2 mill on the LAME payrise it will be worth it.
SYD precinct,another good one! Come on guys lets add to the list. We are so fortunate we are run by so many World Class managers and there ideas.
Im feeling warm and Fuzzy!
YES YES we are the problem. It could never be managements. You are so right. SO lets fix it. VR please. Lets get rid of the troublemakers and start fresh. This could be fixed in a week. Lets do it!
Hey worlds best practice. Is that PARTSMART. Great idea! It was just $35 mill wasted but hey if we can save $2 mill on the LAME payrise it will be worth it.
SYD precinct,another good one! Come on guys lets add to the list. We are so fortunate we are run by so many World Class managers and there ideas.
Im feeling warm and Fuzzy!
Insider Trader:
Dear Mr. Trader, your quote here is the best example I have seen for many months of management doublespeak, that means precisely zero.
I know you actually believe it, or you wouldn't post it. It tells me a great deal about you as well, and what it tells me is that you have never been at the coal face of ANY business.
It is possible to be world class and lean, but not mean. It requires an enormous amount of effort from the very top of the organisation down and I know this from experience. Furthermore world class MRO's don't end up with cracked drip drays.
How do I know this? Because I used to spout similar drivel when I was a young and impressionable MBA. Promote your managers from the floor and get rid of the theoreticians and consultants that thought this guff up. That would be a good first step.
P.S. I have visited Lufthansa Technik (if thats what it's now called), and they were doing things in 1980 that I will bet my left **** that you guys are still not doing, and their canteen served beer at lunchtime to LAMES as well
FCMC, yes QE IS a world class MRO, as are those others which i have mentioned. That is why it is important for QE to remain competitive in the global market, consolidating its existing worlds best practice with programs such as LEAN, and maintaining expenditure control. To introduce a new aircraft type within the existing synergies that QE have targeted would simply be uneconomical.
I know you actually believe it, or you wouldn't post it. It tells me a great deal about you as well, and what it tells me is that you have never been at the coal face of ANY business.
It is possible to be world class and lean, but not mean. It requires an enormous amount of effort from the very top of the organisation down and I know this from experience. Furthermore world class MRO's don't end up with cracked drip drays.
How do I know this? Because I used to spout similar drivel when I was a young and impressionable MBA. Promote your managers from the floor and get rid of the theoreticians and consultants that thought this guff up. That would be a good first step.
P.S. I have visited Lufthansa Technik (if thats what it's now called), and they were doing things in 1980 that I will bet my left **** that you guys are still not doing, and their canteen served beer at lunchtime to LAMES as well