Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA

[Bumpfoh]

Koney

$64 question is will they listen or continue on with their aloof & pompous attitude towards the LAME Assn as has been the case for the last 12 months of "negotiations"?

Time will tell but if I was a betting man..............

Don't know what the grass looks like in your part of AUS but it's dry and dusty down south and we may have to acquaint ourselves with it some time soon if the company don't come to their collective senses in a hurry.

[Konehead]

bumpfoh

Don't know what the grass looks like in your part of AUS but it's dry and dusty down south and we may have to acquaint ourselves with it some time soon if the company don't come to their collective senses in a hurry

You can be far more effective on the tarmac or in the hangar than on the dry and dusty grass. Thanks to your friendly neighbourhood incompetents, oops I mean managers, we have a labyrinthine system of PPMs, LAPs, Warranty claims, Form 500s, CROSS Reports etc to tie them in knots.
And I hope you're filling out your warranty forms. You'll be doing less hands-on work to the angst and chagrin of the higher-ups, hence applying just a little more pressure, but you're also indirectly making money for your local area manager. The warranty money flows back to his cost centre and contributes to his KPIs (what his bonus is based on), not to ACS or Heavy as a whole. So while your local manager will have the S**Ts with your increased enthusiasm for Warranty and decreased actual work output, he will not complain too loudly.
Forgive me for being melodramatic, but in the same vein as "The tree of liberty may occasionally need to be watered by blood", we can water the grass on our side of the fence with the sweat of all LAMEs pulling together for a common cause, and the tears of the managers as they see their bonuses evaporate, only marginally offset by Warranty claims of course...
That also means keeping our hands out of the O/T cookie jar - for everyone's long-term benefit. Enough of the "everyone else is doing it so why shouldn't I?" attitude! Take the long view, O/T piggies. There isn't that much moral difference between you and a scab. You're both acting contrary to the best interests of the membership.
There are only a few repeat offenders, but more than enough to help QE out of the s**t-storm they're in now. In a perfect world I'd like to see an overtimer quietly approached by a crew of guys to have a friendly chat about how it's in all LAMEs interests and especially his if you know what I mean, to not come in for O/T until after the EBA is signed. Then we may all be able to afford to actually go on holidays with our hard-won J14 priority...
Which brings me to something nasty I heard recently. LAMEs get on the flight based on their relatively sad Y-class onload priority, not their J15 priority. Once you're on the flight, well and good - that's when your J14 gets you in front of the CSMs and second officers. But with the load factors so high, you just don't get on the flight!
Anyone know the truth of this?

[Insider Trader]

Illegal PIA?

Interesting, but if i am right in interpreting Konehead's remarks, then i am seeing a member of PPrune actively encouraging members of the ALAEA currently employed under the Qantas EBA to undertake 'unofficial' overtime bans, which is ILLEGAL! Any systemic evidence of this would be forwarded to the AIRC for an immediate resolution which, by any means would not be good for the ALAEA membership as a whole.

It would be a tragedy for the membership as a whole to see the hard work put in by both the ALAEA exec and the QF team be ruined by the rogue actions of a few trouble makers at this point. Both parties have reached an 'in principle' agreement which has now been digested by the ALAEA membership. IMO, it is a very generous offer and any issues with the offer by the membership should have been addressed with the ALAEA exec before an 'in principle' agreement was reached. The spirit of 'good faith' will be destroyed if the unwarranted actions of a few are invoked. It is simply not acceptable to come to an agreement, then bluff and point the gun once more.

As i have said before, the current economic climate doesn't allow for outlandish claims. The industry is dynamic, contracting and becoming more competitive at a rapid rate. Illegal, or irrational negotiation is at your own peril.

PS. As Konehead mentioned, it is only appropriate that ALL documentation is filled out correctly, and in a timely manner, IAW with the QF PPM. Failure to do so would be not carrying out your responsibilties correctly as a LAME.

[The_King]

Who is Insider

Could Insider Trader and “M” be one and the same ?

They are definitely reading from the same “play book”.

[Konehead]

Fear and Loathing in Mascot Castle

Interesting, but if i am right in interpreting Konehead's remarks, then i am seeing a member of PPrune actively encouraging members of the ALAEA currently employed under the Qantas EBA to undertake 'unofficial' overtime bans, which is ILLEGAL!

I am not actively encouraging anything, just expressing a personal opinion about what it would be like in my perfect world.
It is not illegal to be unavailable for overtime for legitimate/plausible personal reasons.
It is not an overtime ban if the union hasn't banned overtime, legally, illegally or otherwise.

Any systemic evidence of this would be forwarded to the AIRC for an immediate resolution

Good luck in collecting said systemic evidence. Would you like a stat dec stating my reasons for not working overtime?

It would be a tragedy for the membership as a whole to see the hard work put in by both the ALAEA exec and the QF team be ruined by the rogue actions of a few trouble makers at this point.

How times change. The previous ALAEA executive sellouts were saying the same thing about the current members of the executive before they were voted in. I see where the puppets got their lines from.
IT, You credit me with more influence than I have! LAMEs are intelligent, independent people. They aren't going to be swayed much by what they read here. If they were, then no-one would be doing overtime etc etc, the company would have been on its knees and the the EBA would be signed by now!
I fail to see how the "rogue actions of a few trouble makers" will have any effect on the membership, unless the rogues are those continuing to do overtime, in which case they'll be working to ease the pressure on the company to loosen the purse strings, not increase the pressure.

Both parties have reached an 'in principle' agreement which has now been digested by the ALAEA membership.

Digested and shat out. The agreement was an "in principle" one in that the union "recommended" it just to get something out to the troops after weeks of silence from both sides, in order to present it to the members for a vote. Unlike a company, a union is a democracy. The members have spoken. The vote would have gone down. The rogue actions of about 75% of the membership made sure of that. And now where are we? I quote the latest ALAEA e-Torque edition:

"The parties are now looking at solutions that would address the concerns raised at the EBA meetings."

The spirit of 'good faith' will be destroyed if the unwarranted actions of a few are invoked. It is simply not acceptable to come to an agreement, then bluff and point the gun once more.

You mean like training scabs?

As i have said before, the current economic climate doesn't allow for outlandish claims.

It doesn't allow for outlandish bonuses either, but tell that to the Board, the CEO, the CFO, DC and so on down the line of snouts in the trough.

The industry is dynamic, contracting and becoming more competitive at a rapid rate.

Contracting? Asia will soon be the biggest aviation market in the world. A growing market means more aircraft. More aircraft, more work. More competition, more opportunities outside the big QF. No-one's getting trained anywhere in the world in sufficient numbers to ease the worsening labour crisis in pilots and engineers. Market forces will prevail. It is inevitable. Just ask the J* pilots who knocked back the first draft of their EBA and ended up with a better deal.

Illegal, or irrational negotiation is at your own peril.

I'm doing nothing illegal.
I trust my very patient, calm and rational executive to negotiate on my behalf, because if I was forced to negotiate with that bunch of circus clowns across the table, I would have jumped across the table and done something highly illegal to them. With a baseball bat.

[Big Unit]

As i have said before, the current economic climate doesn't allow for outlandish claims

Hey Insider Trader. What exactly was the % figure DC's pay went up by again....48%. And exactly how is that justifiable in todays 'current economic climate'. FU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[QF MAINT OUTSOURCED]

Just Imagine What The Company Could Make If They Got Rid Of All Lame's And Engineering,they Doubled Their Profit After They Shut Down Hm H245

[Sunfish]

Great post, Konehead.

Mr. Trader is singing from the same hymnbook that QF has used in the past to stitch you up.

Dealing in "Good Faith" does NOT mean you have to take it up the backside.

You can be as feral as you like and still be in "Good Faith", nor, as a group, do you have to accept the recommendations of your executive.

[The masked goatrider]

Just a few thoughts I would like to share.

The Exec has recommended an offer - I imagine that there would never have been a formal offer if they didn't and they needed to test the water.

The Exec have done something that none in the past have done - They did not at any stage tell their members that this is the best you will ever get.

They should have taken action in January and better do it when the vote goes down. I will be voting no until they get 5% pa.

[Insider Trader]

A timely reminder

For all those folks that are campaigning for a 'NO' vote in relation to the EBA agreement, i would encourage them to read this article from the Sydney Morning Herald.

It is very interesting that the new Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, who, allegedly was to be beholdent to the Union movement, has identified that curtailing inflationary wage growth is critical in maintaining a hold on an agressive economy. Furthermore, he has indicated that any future wages growth must be productivity based. This is common practice amongst larger private sector businesses. The current 3% wage increase on offer to LAMEs under the EBA agreement IS NOT linked to an increase in productivity. Also the NSW govt. has put a cap on any wage rises for their public sector staff at 2.5%.

Those that are adamant that they won't budge until they receive a 5% wage rise may be in for a long wait.

[Dragger of Knuckles]

Time to walk the walk

WAR !!!! What it is good for ?

Teaching unscrupulous people a very big lesson in manners

They took my life but they cannot take my pride, roll on the vote me and bros in Avalon can't wait to pay them back for their constant distaste of us

We may have been rosemary's child but we know how that film ended

Vote NO

[Johnny V]

Walk the Walk ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ohhhh i've wet myself, you guys are sooooo precious

Gutless as the fish in a fishmonger's stall
Yellow as the sun
Spineless as whatever

The only ones amongst you that have shown any bravery are the POS exec members who fronted you with our very reasonable deal and BLEW IT by telling you it barbed wire and all

But don't worry we've got PC, WV, WB and BB sussed and they will all have redundancy papers by the end of the year then where will you be

Walk the Walk oh my .....................

[The Mr Fixit]

Johnny V, FU

Whoever has the balls stand up now and carry the torch

Send out the word to your brothers, actions will speak louder than words

I have read here constantly of men taking their own stance it is time we ALL stood, time is not our enemy it is our friend

A thousand LAMEs attended meetings all over this nation and spoke as one

We will not accept your deal, you out there raised your hands now live by your ideals

THIS LAME OF ONE WANTS TO BECOME A LAME OF MANY

NO is my simple answer and I will stand by it

[Konehead]

Kevin Rudd, who, allegedly was to be beholdent to the Union movement, has identified that curtailing inflationary wage growth is critical in maintaining a hold on an agressive economy.

1. The union movement knows it can't expect much help from Rudd. The past is the past. Old allegiances are forgotten. If there's a vote in it, Rudd will cut the unions loose.
2. That inflationary wage growth is a whole lot of horses that bolted. The leading pack is management bonuses. DC's 48% bonus being a leading example. Rank hypocrisy.
3. Who really cares about the public service. They're overpaid and underworked anyway.

Furthermore, he has indicated that any future wages growth must be productivity based... The current 3% wage increase on offer to LAMEs under the EBA agreement IS NOT linked to an increase in productivity.

Good idea, perhaps we should put a claim in to recognise the productivity gains of new technology foisted upon LAMEs like LAMEs entering online techlogs, PartSmart, online Form 500s, ADOC Navigator etc etc. And how about a share of the millions we put back into the business with warranty?
What about basing managers bonuses on how much business they bring into ACS and Heavy, instead of how much they give away to IASA, Rockwell Collins, Menzies, SIAEC, HAECO and JHAS?
What about improving our productivity by TRAINING US! Hmmm... let's see, B767 Radio, A330, B744ER, B738, engine runs, instead of this TowSafe, Take5, SafetyMate etc bullsh*t.

Also the NSW govt. has put a cap on any wage rises for their public sector staff at 2.5%.

The NSW public service is the most bloated and overpaid in the country. It is why NSW is the Pauper State instead of the Premier State. They can handle winding back a bit, as their pay rises have far outstripped both average wage rises and inflation in the last decade - unlike LAMEs who have gone backwards in real terms in the same time.

[Sunfish]

Konehead 1, Trader 0.

[Dragger of Knuckles]

My last post had an edge to it and while I wont be backing away from it's statements I wold like to clarify some points

War would teach us ALL a lesson, the company bad, us I believe good

After attending the exec meetings I saw men who said they would stand by us whichever way we voted if the deal is bad VOTE NO and we will fight on.

We told them on mass NO, they didn't cry "Idiots this is the best deal you'll ever get"

This is being deliberatly dragged out by the company to wear us down, I say if my leaders can weather the storm so can I. The Pilot group voted their deal down twice, no IA, but still got a better deal than first and second offereed. Pornstar pilots voted their offer down and got a 17% increase it only got voted up (53%) when the compnay kept AIPA out, ALPA in and 77 AWA holders allowed to vote

In the film the Magnificent Seven and old man tells Yul Brunner "Farmers, they are scard that it will not rain and they are just as scared that it will rain too much"

Do not be the farmer be one of the M7 and stand up for your right share of the pie we don't hav to go to PIA to get what we want WE JUST HAVE TO DO OUR JOBS

PIA is an excuse for the p!ssweak and moraless who continue to do overtime, secondments and scab on their mates they will also be YES votes

STAY LONG STAY STRONG VOTE NO

[mister hilter]

All this posturing on here, whilst good to see, is futile. Bring on the vote and let's play 'em where they lay.
Mrs Hilter still says NO.

[PIOT Bord]

Please Explain!!

I do not understand the QE / DC & MH stance on the whole EBA issue. They don't seem to be able to communicate it, can anyone else? I.T. does it make sense to you?

In order to have a win on some fairly minor issues in the EBA, QE delay and obfuscate the whole process. Initially only the militant were incensed but this has now grown. The vast majority of LAMEs are pi**ed off about the whole deal. Does QE not understand the difference in productivity from a demotivated workforce?

A/C are being delayed because LAMEs dealing with a defect who know a work-around rectification method are electing to follow the companies laid down procedure. Three months ago such a situation would not have even been contemplated. These are LAMEs who used to be known as "company men" (not of the suck hole variety).

Work is being refused to be done because "we have no training and there is no one trained who can supervise". Supervisors are just shrugging their shoulders and walking away. DMMs seem to understand, why doesn't QE management?

DC & MH might be working to a grand master plan but the whole place is falling into a heap while they get there. I would be surprised if the vote for the EBA isn't rejected by more than the 88% who voted for PIA.

I repeat, PLEASE EXPLAIN!!!!

[Konehead]

This is being deliberatly dragged out by the company to wear us down,

IO has admitted/bragged as much in the EBA meetings. This fact alone should harden everyone's resolve. It shows that while negotiations are going on in good faith, there is little good will. So be it. Let them reap the whirlwind.

[The Mr Fixit]

My resolve is hardened
My patience immense
The supervision have less faith in the management than we do
Bring it on