Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: On Uranus
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cougar...
My PIA will start the moment I arrive at work. Strike or no strike it will be on.
Get ready for a long and hard fight men, the company was not ready in january when it should have started but the assocation pulled out at the last minute! Rest assured they are more than ready now.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Comrades, i think you should all be very agressive, PIA all the way.
2 day stoppages O/T bans and the like
2 Days turns into 4 days, turns into six days, turns into 8 days,
Cannot wait to see how agressive you guys will be, the fun has started, please ensure that you all keep following your executive and you all do the right thing by your comrades, make sure that you really test the companies resolve, they could be bluffing, but you will all soon find out.
Bring it on, and please ensure you have some money trucked away for a rainy day or two or three or four.
Remember to dress well outside the gate. On the positive side, you will save money on lunch during lockout if you all pool your resources to ensure that the sausage sizzle is ready.
2 day stoppages O/T bans and the like
2 Days turns into 4 days, turns into six days, turns into 8 days,
Cannot wait to see how agressive you guys will be, the fun has started, please ensure that you all keep following your executive and you all do the right thing by your comrades, make sure that you really test the companies resolve, they could be bluffing, but you will all soon find out.
Bring it on, and please ensure you have some money trucked away for a rainy day or two or three or four.
Remember to dress well outside the gate. On the positive side, you will save money on lunch during lockout if you all pool your resources to ensure that the sausage sizzle is ready.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bexley
Posts: 1,792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bring back the 8 hour shift....mate
8 hour rosters fits well and truly in a complex set of plans that we have mapped out. It is not the first step. It will be considered, and needs to be kept in reserve in the following scenario.
If Qantas do enough grovelling to the Government and convince them that the national ecomomy is in strife because we have some minor bans on and they cancel our bargaining period. Then we roll out 8 hour shifts. It doesn't require the approval from anyone but us.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Johnny wanted to have sex with a girl in his office, but she belonged to someone else...
One day, Johnny got so frustrated that he went up to her and said, "I'll give you a $100 if you let me screw you. But the girl said NO.
Johnny said, "I'll be fast. I'll throw the money on the floor, you bend down, and I'll be finished by the time you pick it up. "
She thought for a moment and said that she would have to consult her boyfriend... So she called her boyfriend and told him the story.
Her boyfriend says, "Ask him for $200, pick up the money very fast, he won't even be able to get his pants down."
So she agrees and accepts the proposal. Half an hour goes by, and the boyfriend is waiting for his girlfriend to call.
Finally, after 45 minutes, the boyfriend calls and asks what happened.
She responded, "The bastard used coins!"
Moral of the story:
Always consider a business proposal in its entirety before agreeing to it and getting screwed!
One day, Johnny got so frustrated that he went up to her and said, "I'll give you a $100 if you let me screw you. But the girl said NO.
Johnny said, "I'll be fast. I'll throw the money on the floor, you bend down, and I'll be finished by the time you pick it up. "
She thought for a moment and said that she would have to consult her boyfriend... So she called her boyfriend and told him the story.
Her boyfriend says, "Ask him for $200, pick up the money very fast, he won't even be able to get his pants down."
So she agrees and accepts the proposal. Half an hour goes by, and the boyfriend is waiting for his girlfriend to call.
Finally, after 45 minutes, the boyfriend calls and asks what happened.
She responded, "The bastard used coins!"
Moral of the story:
Always consider a business proposal in its entirety before agreeing to it and getting screwed!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A few interesting quotes from an article entitled “Aviation Maintenance: Maintaining the Edge” by AMc in the April 08 edition of Australian Aviation Magazine.
‘This skilled and motivated but decreasing workforce base (AMEs & LAMEs) is, in a time of practically full employment, showing signs of being unable to keep pace with the demands of a rapidly growing aviation industry.
…new aircraft with new technologies such as composites and ultra-efficient engines will require new skillsets to maintain them… But who is going to maintain all of these new aircraft as they arrive? …the increased demands from all these segments (GA, small to mid-sized airlines, military, flying schools, clubs) are just not being met.’ AMc.
“The main threat facing the aviation industry in Australia today is a lack of qualified licensed aircraft maintenance engineering staff. Heavy pressure is being put on the experienced LAMEs to supervise and sign for work carried out by unlicensed and less experienced staff… And applicants are in a much stronger position for negotiation of conditions of employment – much more so than has ever been seen in the aircraft engineering industry.” KR, engineering manager of Skippers Aviation. (Hello people! Do I have your attention now?)
“The skills shortage is a huge issue for our industry in Australia.” TE, general manager, JHAS.
“The skills shortage of qualified engineers is compounded by a reluctance of people with compatible engineering backgrounds to enter the industry due to perceived lower working conditions than other engineering industries, such as mining and heavy machinery maintenance… the culture of cost minimisation increases an organisation’s reluctance to train engineers in technical skills and aircraft type courses to prevent wages from increasing and also reduces the retention in the industry of engineers that feel they no longer have a career path. Once people experience life away from shift work or discover other shift working industries with higher rates of pay, they are reluctant to return to aviation. There are good opportunities for people with the necessary discipline and quality that an aviation background provides to work in mining, the petrochemical industry, manufacturing, the energy sector, logistics, project planning and plant maintenance.” Unnamed ALAEA representative.
‘But Virgin Blue said the industry itself has to shoulder some of the blame.’ AMc.
“As with all highly skilled trades there is always a need for more trainees and apprentices to meet future demand… The industry failed to train apprentices 10 to 12 years ago, so consequently the industry is now in catch up mode.” ‘…he has found it difficult to attract a “good, experienced airline engineering planning and management capability in the market.” BS, general manager engineering operations, Virgin Blue. (No kidding. QF seems to have the same problem…)
‘Just as is happening with pilots, supply versus demand is impacting an engineering employee’s earning potential in a positive way.’ AMc. (There’s that old ‘supply vs demand’ thing I’ve been crapping on about ad nauseaum in previous posts!)
“The single biggest challenge facing the industry is the shortage of skilled labour… It is a looming problem...” GI, maintenance director, ExecuJet Australia.
“The biggest advantage of in-house engineering is quality, followed by flexibility to perform work outside of the usual routine requirements. When maintenance is performed in-house there is much better access to the support services that are required to acquit aircraft maintenance and inspections and especially non-routine work properly… and staff that are familiar with the organisation’s routines and policy documents. There is also much closer supervision carried out in-house as there is always oversight by the airline’s LAMEs at all stages of the work… There also needs to be factored in the pride that local workers put into their work – they take ownership of the company’s assets, whereas there may not be the same level of care taken with a ‘customer’ aircraft…” Unnamed ALAEA representative.
“Cost saving is the biggest advantage of retaining engineering capabilities in-house. It gives us the availability of staff to carry out the engineering requirements on an immediate basis, as opposed to having to look for available third party maintenance organisations or personnel when required.” KR, engineering manager of Skippers Aviation.
“Our workforce plan has two elements: the up-skilling of our current employees to be multi-licensed, giving them new opportunities and creating a much more stimulating work environment; and developing trainees and apprentices.” TE, general manager, JHAS. (DC & MH, are you listening? That’s a manager who is in touch with the staff and knows what motivates them!)
“The adoption of EASA regulations allows us to multi-skill LAMEs, improving our productivity and their pay.” BS, general manager engineering operations, Virgin Blue. (Hmmm… a direct link between multi-skilling, i.e. training people and improving their productivity. What a novel idea! Pity DC & MH don’t see it that way, except for those among the golden-haired boys of the “Talent Pool”)
I strongly recommend people get themselves a copy of this article and read it in its entirety. I have quoted selectively here. DC is quoted extensively, but it’s the usual “flexibility, efficiency, working smarter, we’ve invested millions into engineering” mantra that we’ve all heard before. The reason I have quoted selectively is to give those nervous nellies among us (Wingers and friends) a perspective of our industry that perhaps they may lack, to highlight the strength of our negotiating position, how QF management is disclocated from reality, the arguments for maintaining engineering in-house and that working for QF is not the best on offer, both in terms of wages & conditions, lifestyle and job satisfaction.
And let's be realistic LAMEA380. It's not even gonna get to two day stoppages! Why? Because the playground bully usually only needs a punch in the nose from his intended victim to cease and desist bad behaviour. We don't need to kick QF in the nuts to get our point across. A two day stoppage will cost us around $1000 after tax ($130,000/yr divided by 180 12 hour days, less around 30% tax paid). It's a burden we can all share relatively equally, considering what is to be gained by this sacrifice. But imagine the harm a two day stoppage will do to QF financially and to it's reputation! QF will not let it happen. As the Fed Sec has stated, there is a plan, there are many steps to take before kickin 'em in the goons, like a punch in the nose, a nipple-cripple, a bitch slap and a wedgy.
‘This skilled and motivated but decreasing workforce base (AMEs & LAMEs) is, in a time of practically full employment, showing signs of being unable to keep pace with the demands of a rapidly growing aviation industry.
…new aircraft with new technologies such as composites and ultra-efficient engines will require new skillsets to maintain them… But who is going to maintain all of these new aircraft as they arrive? …the increased demands from all these segments (GA, small to mid-sized airlines, military, flying schools, clubs) are just not being met.’ AMc.
“The main threat facing the aviation industry in Australia today is a lack of qualified licensed aircraft maintenance engineering staff. Heavy pressure is being put on the experienced LAMEs to supervise and sign for work carried out by unlicensed and less experienced staff… And applicants are in a much stronger position for negotiation of conditions of employment – much more so than has ever been seen in the aircraft engineering industry.” KR, engineering manager of Skippers Aviation. (Hello people! Do I have your attention now?)
“The skills shortage is a huge issue for our industry in Australia.” TE, general manager, JHAS.
“The skills shortage of qualified engineers is compounded by a reluctance of people with compatible engineering backgrounds to enter the industry due to perceived lower working conditions than other engineering industries, such as mining and heavy machinery maintenance… the culture of cost minimisation increases an organisation’s reluctance to train engineers in technical skills and aircraft type courses to prevent wages from increasing and also reduces the retention in the industry of engineers that feel they no longer have a career path. Once people experience life away from shift work or discover other shift working industries with higher rates of pay, they are reluctant to return to aviation. There are good opportunities for people with the necessary discipline and quality that an aviation background provides to work in mining, the petrochemical industry, manufacturing, the energy sector, logistics, project planning and plant maintenance.” Unnamed ALAEA representative.
‘But Virgin Blue said the industry itself has to shoulder some of the blame.’ AMc.
“As with all highly skilled trades there is always a need for more trainees and apprentices to meet future demand… The industry failed to train apprentices 10 to 12 years ago, so consequently the industry is now in catch up mode.” ‘…he has found it difficult to attract a “good, experienced airline engineering planning and management capability in the market.” BS, general manager engineering operations, Virgin Blue. (No kidding. QF seems to have the same problem…)
‘Just as is happening with pilots, supply versus demand is impacting an engineering employee’s earning potential in a positive way.’ AMc. (There’s that old ‘supply vs demand’ thing I’ve been crapping on about ad nauseaum in previous posts!)
“The single biggest challenge facing the industry is the shortage of skilled labour… It is a looming problem...” GI, maintenance director, ExecuJet Australia.
“The biggest advantage of in-house engineering is quality, followed by flexibility to perform work outside of the usual routine requirements. When maintenance is performed in-house there is much better access to the support services that are required to acquit aircraft maintenance and inspections and especially non-routine work properly… and staff that are familiar with the organisation’s routines and policy documents. There is also much closer supervision carried out in-house as there is always oversight by the airline’s LAMEs at all stages of the work… There also needs to be factored in the pride that local workers put into their work – they take ownership of the company’s assets, whereas there may not be the same level of care taken with a ‘customer’ aircraft…” Unnamed ALAEA representative.
“Cost saving is the biggest advantage of retaining engineering capabilities in-house. It gives us the availability of staff to carry out the engineering requirements on an immediate basis, as opposed to having to look for available third party maintenance organisations or personnel when required.” KR, engineering manager of Skippers Aviation.
“Our workforce plan has two elements: the up-skilling of our current employees to be multi-licensed, giving them new opportunities and creating a much more stimulating work environment; and developing trainees and apprentices.” TE, general manager, JHAS. (DC & MH, are you listening? That’s a manager who is in touch with the staff and knows what motivates them!)
“The adoption of EASA regulations allows us to multi-skill LAMEs, improving our productivity and their pay.” BS, general manager engineering operations, Virgin Blue. (Hmmm… a direct link between multi-skilling, i.e. training people and improving their productivity. What a novel idea! Pity DC & MH don’t see it that way, except for those among the golden-haired boys of the “Talent Pool”)
I strongly recommend people get themselves a copy of this article and read it in its entirety. I have quoted selectively here. DC is quoted extensively, but it’s the usual “flexibility, efficiency, working smarter, we’ve invested millions into engineering” mantra that we’ve all heard before. The reason I have quoted selectively is to give those nervous nellies among us (Wingers and friends) a perspective of our industry that perhaps they may lack, to highlight the strength of our negotiating position, how QF management is disclocated from reality, the arguments for maintaining engineering in-house and that working for QF is not the best on offer, both in terms of wages & conditions, lifestyle and job satisfaction.
And let's be realistic LAMEA380. It's not even gonna get to two day stoppages! Why? Because the playground bully usually only needs a punch in the nose from his intended victim to cease and desist bad behaviour. We don't need to kick QF in the nuts to get our point across. A two day stoppage will cost us around $1000 after tax ($130,000/yr divided by 180 12 hour days, less around 30% tax paid). It's a burden we can all share relatively equally, considering what is to be gained by this sacrifice. But imagine the harm a two day stoppage will do to QF financially and to it's reputation! QF will not let it happen. As the Fed Sec has stated, there is a plan, there are many steps to take before kickin 'em in the goons, like a punch in the nose, a nipple-cripple, a bitch slap and a wedgy.
Last edited by Konehead; 17th Apr 2008 at 04:14.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have friends currently working contracts at JHAS and Forstaff. They all tell the same story. They are desperate for appropriately licensed LAMES. My friends get flown in from interstate and put up in hotels due to the shortage. They keep getting offered full time positions at the end of the contracts but (as they are all past retirement ages) keep saying no.
It really makes you wonder about the quality and licenses of the so-called scabs…. And really, how many could you really get in today’s environment.
Qf are still trying to bluff and everyone has seen their hand.
It really makes you wonder about the quality and licenses of the so-called scabs…. And really, how many could you really get in today’s environment.
Qf are still trying to bluff and everyone has seen their hand.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SYD
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How about this for a novel idea. When the company reject our 5% demand, we pull this off the negotiating table and make it 6%. Every time they reject our offer, we up it by 1%. Oh, also our accepting the offer would require the falling on their own swords by the 2 arseholes that have destroyed QF engineering morale and conditions. (And if u 2 arseholes think im just a whinger, come down and work a few nightshifts with us).
I am now well and truly fed up. I just want to work and be backed up by 'supply chain' like we were 5 yrs ago. The time has come for change.
.
To be honest, im not even that concerned about the money anyway. It is simply criminal what those 2 have done to us.
Rant Over!
I am now well and truly fed up. I just want to work and be backed up by 'supply chain' like we were 5 yrs ago. The time has come for change.
.To be honest, im not even that concerned about the money anyway. It is simply criminal what those 2 have done to us.
Rant Over!
Last edited by Big Unit; 17th Apr 2008 at 06:18. Reason: Still seething with more anger....
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Strong Support For Pia!
If reading these posts and talking to work colleagues is repesentative of the QF LAME workforce (with the exception of the loser trolls like wingers and LAME380) then I say bring on the vote and the first action.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ALAEA Fed Sec just a few questions.....
From what I hear there is no way in hell QF is going to break the 3% dead lock, they just don't want to set a precedence and open the flood gates to the rest of our fellow employees. I'm just wondering if there is a way around it rather then trying to go through, what seems to be a very stubborn wall.
I guess like most people I'm rather fed up with it all and just want it to be over and done with, but not at the expense of our conditions or rights. I'm ready to fight but why are they being such holes. If what they want is a fight then god help them because I've never seen so many of us thinking the same thing. Bring it on.
The circle of stupidity continues.....
From what I hear there is no way in hell QF is going to break the 3% dead lock, they just don't want to set a precedence and open the flood gates to the rest of our fellow employees. I'm just wondering if there is a way around it rather then trying to go through, what seems to be a very stubborn wall.
I guess like most people I'm rather fed up with it all and just want it to be over and done with, but not at the expense of our conditions or rights. I'm ready to fight but why are they being such
holes. If what they want is a fight then god help them because I've never seen so many of us thinking the same thing. Bring it on.The circle of stupidity continues.....
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney
Age: 54
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what lock outs,they will not happen,in 2001 the ame's went on strike for months,without a look out, in fact the company felt it,do you think it would get any better if the engineers that certify the aircraft went on strike,believe it guys and girls the company are sh!tting them selves to the threat that you may walk of the job
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: sydney
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EP the AMEs went out for a few hours to a full day at a time. The company wasn't too worried abou tit because all the LAME's picked up the slack with unlimited O/T. And it seems that they would be the same ones doing O/T now. They didn't support their brothers back then and I doubt they will support them right now.
And the company wouldn't be too stressed anyway, they have had another 4 months to sort out their back up plan, and I reckon JHAS would still be on QF calling card to take over the A380.
Part of the reason the A380 went to QE was to do with the EBA, Now that it has fallen apart I wonder if they will use the JHAS contingency to make sure the new flagship isn't delayed by the poor industrial relationship.
Time will tell.
And the company wouldn't be too stressed anyway, they have had another 4 months to sort out their back up plan, and I reckon JHAS would still be on QF calling card to take over the A380.
Part of the reason the A380 went to QE was to do with the EBA, Now that it has fallen apart I wonder if they will use the JHAS contingency to make sure the new flagship isn't delayed by the poor industrial relationship.
Time will tell.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Change expected soon
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's all this F.U.D. about "lockout". PIA is just that - PROTECTED. Half the reason why negotiations have been slow is that the ALAEA have been dotting the i's and crossing the t's. Now we have the blessing of the Commission to carry out a whole range of PROTECTED action to advance our renumeration claims and working conditions. (Not 'escalate' because we don't know what that word means!)
We have the support of the AME's (who have been screwed by the same management), we have the support of the pilots, we haven't got the public offside and the Government hasn't taken sides. The ALAEA exec have guided things fairly well so far. Let's give them the support and muscle they need with a huge YES vote.
What does the company have? A management team that don't know the first thing about aircraft engineering, and is destroying Qantas Engineering. 1% of the LAME's who are s#&k-hole Yes men. 50 scabs, half of which won't even turn up if push comes to shove. Remember, the scabs can't sign for all the maintenance at every base on an on-going basis. If things do turn bad, it won't take much for GD to turn on DC and MH.
Our claims are reasonable, they aren't over the top. If you want this EBA sorted out sooner rather than later, give our exec. something to negotiate with. 80% and above should do the trick.
We have the support of the AME's (who have been screwed by the same management), we have the support of the pilots, we haven't got the public offside and the Government hasn't taken sides. The ALAEA exec have guided things fairly well so far. Let's give them the support and muscle they need with a huge YES vote.
What does the company have? A management team that don't know the first thing about aircraft engineering, and is destroying Qantas Engineering. 1% of the LAME's who are s#&k-hole Yes men. 50 scabs, half of which won't even turn up if push comes to shove. Remember, the scabs can't sign for all the maintenance at every base on an on-going basis. If things do turn bad, it won't take much for GD to turn on DC and MH.
Our claims are reasonable, they aren't over the top. If you want this EBA sorted out sooner rather than later, give our exec. something to negotiate with. 80% and above should do the trick.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: sydney
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree PIOT the claims are reasonable but I hope the fight hasn't been left for too long. My thoughts are that the fight should have happened last EBA when things were not so bad.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Up left - Down right
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EBA proceeding have taken some time now, but it is time well spent. The Exec. will have leaned a lot about how QF do business ie slipping things in & out and misrepresenting their words etc. The resolve of the masses are hardening with every rock QF throws. I would not doubt that we will vote yes to PIA with about 90% this time. 1700 LAMES having problems making schedule, how will a few dozen out of touch scabs do it, NOT....
Go for it guys, it is time to save QE & our wages.
Go for it guys, it is time to save QE & our wages.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: n.s.w
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Management only understand one thing. A few sandwiches short of a picnic you might say. The only way they will feel compelled to negotiate with us in a meaningfull way, without backsliding and twisting words is if we kick them in the nuts. They are nothing more than school yard bullies.