Pilots with history of recreational drug use.Do I stand a chance?
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Pilots with history of recreational drug use.Do I stand a chance?
Hello
I've realised that I really want to be a Pilot and that there's nothing else I'd imagen doing but there's a slight problem I'm worried about.I've been using extacy and speed recreationally on the weekends for a year or so and haven't touched it for over 2months now.The only excuse I have is that I was young and dumb.My parents would be ready to sponsor my training as long as they see that I'm commited.They obviously aren't aware of my past drug use and there's no need for them to.I want to become and airline Pilot and I am ready to put in 100%.I've told my GP about my drug use, so will that come up on my medical when applying to airlines if I don't mention it?
I did my year 12 with satisfactory results but I don't posses the Qantas maths requirement.
thank you
I've realised that I really want to be a Pilot and that there's nothing else I'd imagen doing but there's a slight problem I'm worried about.I've been using extacy and speed recreationally on the weekends for a year or so and haven't touched it for over 2months now.The only excuse I have is that I was young and dumb.My parents would be ready to sponsor my training as long as they see that I'm commited.They obviously aren't aware of my past drug use and there's no need for them to.I want to become and airline Pilot and I am ready to put in 100%.I've told my GP about my drug use, so will that come up on my medical when applying to airlines if I don't mention it?
I did my year 12 with satisfactory results but I don't posses the Qantas maths requirement.
thank you
Sorry, have no idea what the prospects are, but whatever happens, I urge you not to consider "not mentioning it". You are legally required to declare it during the medical, and failure to do so/later discovery of same could land you in deep doo-doos.
I don't imagine a history of drug use would necessarily disqualify a candidate, (it might), but for your own protection (not to mention that of any passengers you may be responsible for in the future) it needs to be declared. Maybe not to a future employer - each will no doubt have rules regarding this - but definitely to the medical/regulatory authorities.
I don't imagine a history of drug use would necessarily disqualify a candidate, (it might), but for your own protection (not to mention that of any passengers you may be responsible for in the future) it needs to be declared. Maybe not to a future employer - each will no doubt have rules regarding this - but definitely to the medical/regulatory authorities.
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Admitting to recreational drug use will disqualify you from holding a medical at the first instance - about 10 years ago one of my students admitted to smoking a bit of pot on the weekends 
Mind you, admitting to illegal activity during an interview with a government medical officer could be viewed as failing the underlying IQ test anyway
I am assuming you have never been caught in posession and that there is no official record of your past silliness.
I won't encourage you to lie in your aircrew medical but I think the question you will be asked is "Have you, since your last medical or in the last 12 months, used any illicit drug or narcotic?"
See if you can go 12 months without - perhaps then
1/. you know you have the self-discipline required;
2/. you will have the clear head required for the very intensive (and expensive) training and
3/. you can answer the question truthfully.
Best of luck.
Mind you, admitting to illegal activity during an interview with a government medical officer could be viewed as failing the underlying IQ test anyway
I am assuming you have never been caught in posession and that there is no official record of your past silliness.
I won't encourage you to lie in your aircrew medical but I think the question you will be asked is "Have you, since your last medical or in the last 12 months, used any illicit drug or narcotic?"
See if you can go 12 months without - perhaps then
1/. you know you have the self-discipline required;
2/. you will have the clear head required for the very intensive (and expensive) training and
3/. you can answer the question truthfully.
Best of luck.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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I don't believe I'm reading this. 
The pilot of the PA32 that killed a NZ family and American tourist probably only considered himself a "weekend" or "recreational" user of canabis too.
I don't know if it is permitted under privacy laws or other civil liberties provisions but the sooner an employer has the right to send someone after establishing probable cause, to the local clinic for a p1ss test the better.
The pilot of the PA32 that killed a NZ family and American tourist probably only considered himself a "weekend" or "recreational" user of canabis too.
I don't know if it is permitted under privacy laws or other civil liberties provisions but the sooner an employer has the right to send someone after establishing probable cause, to the local clinic for a p1ss test the better.
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I might be about to get a pasting for this....but what the heck, 
There might be a pilot shortage......but they are not that short of em!
What sort of fool were you, and now you think all is good and into an airline job now. There are probably hundreds of applications on desks and the airlines have picked through them, and I hate to say it but maybe they are not prepared to scrape the barrel any deeper.
I suggest you go five years or so clean and see if you can forget you ever did it.
I have seen the effects "Speed" has on its users and it took several years for the effects (mentally) to go away, from what I understand Ecstasy does permanent damage.
In my opinion get your sh!t together and stay that way for a while yet before you consider such a move. And maybe do something constructive with your newly gained knowledge and educate all those around you about how stupid it was and how much you realise now what life is really about. I am glad you have turned the corner, so help some of your friends out too! Ohh and all the supplier you know, get their details and take them to the cops, get em roasted so they can't do it any more.
I wish you well, even though it sounds a bit harsh above, just don't do that sh!t again!
J
There might be a pilot shortage......but they are not that short of em!
What sort of fool were you, and now you think all is good and into an airline job now. There are probably hundreds of applications on desks and the airlines have picked through them, and I hate to say it but maybe they are not prepared to scrape the barrel any deeper.
I suggest you go five years or so clean and see if you can forget you ever did it.
I have seen the effects "Speed" has on its users and it took several years for the effects (mentally) to go away, from what I understand Ecstasy does permanent damage.
In my opinion get your sh!t together and stay that way for a while yet before you consider such a move. And maybe do something constructive with your newly gained knowledge and educate all those around you about how stupid it was and how much you realise now what life is really about. I am glad you have turned the corner, so help some of your friends out too! Ohh and all the supplier you know, get their details and take them to the cops, get em roasted so they can't do it any more.
I wish you well, even though it sounds a bit harsh above, just don't do that sh!t again!
J
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So you've been off the gear for 2 months. Well wacky do to you.
You need to see if you can stay of it for 2 years - if only to prove to yourself that you can do it.
At this stage of the game I wouldn't let you mow my yard
You need to see if you can stay of it for 2 years - if only to prove to yourself that you can do it.
At this stage of the game I wouldn't let you mow my yard
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There is NO ROOM for JUNKIES in the aviation industry. And before anyone starts harping on about his "use" being "recreational", drugs are drugs. Don't waste your time. Don't waste possiblie employers time. Get a job in Woolies or Coles. We don't need your sort with the lives of the traveling public in your hands.
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I am not condoning drug use , But I guess it is ok for pilots to have a history of being alcholics! QF having their own alcho anon!
Cast the first stone if you havent been a bit dusty after an overnight!
He is young by the sound of it, dont tell them and see if you stay clean for the training which will take you the best part of a year anyway. Then decide.
Cast the first stone if you havent been a bit dusty after an overnight!
He is young by the sound of it, dont tell them and see if you stay clean for the training which will take you the best part of a year anyway. Then decide.
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jaba you have every right to say such things & most agree as we can see. Ok here's a guy who is 19 & posted twice here. Take a look at the scenario a bit here. Why on earth would you want to 'hang' yourself all over again (first hanging was the day he started this death spiral) here in a public forum where pilots, employers & god knows who else is ready to judge, sentence & hang someone for almost anything?
Somebody in command of anything never lone an A/C ought not to be anywhere near machinery when on or have been in the past mind altering drugs but they are sadly.
So 'cetnik' as you can see/read I believe it best at yr age to go away from this industry & prove to yourself first that yr worthy to hold a job in our field of expertese. Then when you know yourself that your back to normal(whatever that is anyway!) maybe just maybe you could seek a pvt license & take it from there. Yr subject matter (if it is in fact real) is a very touchy subject & airing it here wasn't a smart move. You are obvioulsy not alone many youngsters would be heading down a path of destruction but do you really think that 2 months proves much?. NO. come back here much latter, now isn't the time
CW
Somebody in command of anything never lone an A/C ought not to be anywhere near machinery when on or have been in the past mind altering drugs but they are sadly.So 'cetnik' as you can see/read I believe it best at yr age to go away from this industry & prove to yourself first that yr worthy to hold a job in our field of expertese. Then when you know yourself that your back to normal(whatever that is anyway!) maybe just maybe you could seek a pvt license & take it from there. Yr subject matter (if it is in fact real) is a very touchy subject & airing it here wasn't a smart move. You are obvioulsy not alone many youngsters would be heading down a path of destruction but do you really think that 2 months proves much?. NO. come back here much latter, now isn't the time
CW
LSD, if taken even once, permanently disqualifies you from flying due to the risk of a flash back.
No respectable airline will knowingly employ a former drug user in a sensitive position such as air crew. Can you imagine the publicity if the press found out ? The legal implications in the event of an accident would be unimaginable.
Also the drug culture doesn't go well with customs and international aircrew. There is the suspicion you could be pressurised into smuggling.
Two months really is nothing to boast about when it comes to being clear, talk to us again when it's been five years.
Best advice, forget it.
No respectable airline will knowingly employ a former drug user in a sensitive position such as air crew. Can you imagine the publicity if the press found out ? The legal implications in the event of an accident would be unimaginable.
Also the drug culture doesn't go well with customs and international aircrew. There is the suspicion you could be pressurised into smuggling.
Two months really is nothing to boast about when it comes to being clear, talk to us again when it's been five years.
Best advice, forget it.
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I doubt you'll see much overt support for your position in here Cetnik. IMO recreational drug-use of any sort is about the stupidest choice you can make at any time in your life, for whatever reason. It would be naive in the extreme to contend that there is no recreational drug-use amongst the pilot community -there's more than ample evidence that this is not the case. It is more than likely however that you'll find a majority of the pilot community are 'clean', are that way by choice and have been all their lives. As a function of that, you can expect to find an exceptionally low tolerance of self-confessed recreational drug users and an absolute intolerance of discovered 'closet' recreational drug users -for wont of a better way of putting it.
Do you stand a chance? Not in any organisation in which I hold a position of responsibility, if I know of your use.
Do you stand a chance? Not in any organisation in which I hold a position of responsibility, if I know of your use.
How old are you?
1. Find out if your GP has made any record of what you told him. If it ain't in writing, it didn't happen, and unless he prescribed something (Valium, Zoloft?) he may not have recorded anything. Besides you might have simply been fantasising and he didn't believe you.
Furthermore, if you only did something once or twice, it would not necessarily be material in my opinion. I'd discuss it with your GP in more detail including whether he thought it was material and discussing exactly how anyone would find out different from what you say on your medical form if there is no record.
2. But there is a deeper issue, there is a difference between being "young and stupid" and using drugs as self medication for personal problems. If the latter is the case, then you had better think very hard about whether those problems still exist, because they WILL resurface during your training when it becomes stressful, as it will no doubt be from time to time, and if they resurface and you resort to self medication again, then you and anyone flying with you, are in deep deep lethal trouble.
To put that another way, if you lose situational awareness while flying on instruments in a dark and stormy night, from stupid drug or anxiety related stuff going on in your head, then you are simply dead.
3. Thanks to the random drug testing regime, you will get caught if you do stupid stuff. Not sure if usage two months ago will be picked up.
4. It is not unusual to be mixed up and unsure of what you want to do with your life at your age. Exactly how did you determine you wanted to be a pilot? What aircraft have you flown? When did you decide this? Last week? Yesterday? Do you know what the job really entails?
If you haven't dipped your toe in the water and tested your aptitude, then maybe now is the time to do so before you commit yourself (and your parents hard earned cash) to training schemes.
To put it another way "Not so fast young Skywalker."
On a brighter note, I'm afraid I've had to deal with similar young peoples problems, and the individuals concerned now hold some pretty responsible qualifications in a transport environment and are doing just fine.
To put it another way if you've grown out of it, and it was just "youthful high spirits", and there is no record, forget about it, don't mention it because it's not material.
OK,now flame me for potentially encouraging an illegal act.
1. Find out if your GP has made any record of what you told him. If it ain't in writing, it didn't happen, and unless he prescribed something (Valium, Zoloft?) he may not have recorded anything. Besides you might have simply been fantasising and he didn't believe you.
Furthermore, if you only did something once or twice, it would not necessarily be material in my opinion. I'd discuss it with your GP in more detail including whether he thought it was material and discussing exactly how anyone would find out different from what you say on your medical form if there is no record.
2. But there is a deeper issue, there is a difference between being "young and stupid" and using drugs as self medication for personal problems. If the latter is the case, then you had better think very hard about whether those problems still exist, because they WILL resurface during your training when it becomes stressful, as it will no doubt be from time to time, and if they resurface and you resort to self medication again, then you and anyone flying with you, are in deep deep lethal trouble.
To put that another way, if you lose situational awareness while flying on instruments in a dark and stormy night, from stupid drug or anxiety related stuff going on in your head, then you are simply dead.
3. Thanks to the random drug testing regime, you will get caught if you do stupid stuff. Not sure if usage two months ago will be picked up.
4. It is not unusual to be mixed up and unsure of what you want to do with your life at your age. Exactly how did you determine you wanted to be a pilot? What aircraft have you flown? When did you decide this? Last week? Yesterday? Do you know what the job really entails?
If you haven't dipped your toe in the water and tested your aptitude, then maybe now is the time to do so before you commit yourself (and your parents hard earned cash) to training schemes.
To put it another way "Not so fast young Skywalker."
On a brighter note, I'm afraid I've had to deal with similar young peoples problems, and the individuals concerned now hold some pretty responsible qualifications in a transport environment and are doing just fine.
To put it another way if you've grown out of it, and it was just "youthful high spirits", and there is no record, forget about it, don't mention it because it's not material.
OK,now flame me for potentially encouraging an illegal act.
Interesting range of responses to this 'problem'!
Jaba............as far as I understand, repeated exposure to ecstasy can apparently result in memory loss, brain damage and depression, and repeated exposure to speed can result in malnutrition, psychosis (including violence), reduced resistence to infection, and brain damage.
Simply, the potentially disastrous consequences of taking ecstasy and speed far outweigh the (perceived) benefits.
Jabawocky offered you some good advice Cetnik..........here's some more from the Designated Medical Examiner's Handbook:
Somehow, I think that you may need to reassess your career ambitions.
Jaba............as far as I understand, repeated exposure to ecstasy can apparently result in memory loss, brain damage and depression, and repeated exposure to speed can result in malnutrition, psychosis (including violence), reduced resistence to infection, and brain damage.
Simply, the potentially disastrous consequences of taking ecstasy and speed far outweigh the (perceived) benefits.
Jabawocky offered you some good advice Cetnik..........here's some more from the Designated Medical Examiner's Handbook:
- CASA will not usually issue an aviation medical certificate to a pilot or ATC who suffers a substance abuse disorder or who is involved in the problematic use of drugs.
- Current CASA practice is to ask all applicants for aeromedical certification (original and renewal), about possible problematic use of drugs and substances.
- Applicants who admit to the problematic use of drugs/substances or whom the DAME suspects of drug/substance abuse on the basis of other history or examination findings are required to submit a urine sample for drug screening.
- As a minimum, urine samples should be tested for the following groups of drugs: cannabinoids, amphetamines, cocaine analogues, hallucinogens, opiates, sedatives and phencyclidine analogues. In addition, the requesting DAME should request testing for any other drug/substance that he/she suspects that the applicant may be using/abusing.
- Any applicant who returns a positive urine drug screen and thus confirms his/her problematic use of drugs/substances does not meet the relevant medical standard. CASA will not issue a medical certificate unless an explanation acceptable to CASA is provided.
Somehow, I think that you may need to reassess your career ambitions.
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Hmmmm..... why the sympathy, (Young and stupid, just tried once, he will grow out of it). I have never and will never touch drugs and the majority of my friends are the same. I am not a motivated person, I listen to heavy metal music and have had some very unhappy times in my life however, I NEVER turned to drugs. There is NO EXCUSE for it. END OF STORY! It's not like he didn't know what he was doing!! There is plenty of info out there warning of the dangers. IT'S ILLEGAL FOR ______ SAKE!! Doesn't that tell you something? He made the decision to do something that is CLEARLY illegal, harmful and overall STUPID! Too late buddy. Coles or Woolies for this kid.
Cetnik, once you have finished with this thread, get another username because they aviation community is quite small and you will be identified quite quickly if you continue to post on Pprune under that name while training.
The ignore the likes of NAS1801 comments. He doesn't know what you and I know. For starters, there would not be one teenager in Australia who hasn't puffed on Marijuana at least once, it's far easier for teenagers to get than cigarettes and alcohol.
The drugs issue is one of those "I wish you hadn't told me that!" areas.
If you tell the DAME, then they are required to take action. Once that action is taken and its on your record, even if the DAME then issues you a medical certificate then it appears unlikely any employer will hire you, ever. It's a catch 22 situation.
To put it another way, there is no point even attempting to start an aviation career if evidence (from you or anyone else) exists of prior drug use, even if you are completely "clean" for years.
I often have to go out of my way counselling various young people that what they do before the age of 18 DOES count as far as police and medical records go. Most of them think the slate is wiped clean at age 18 - it isn't.
The ignore the likes of NAS1801 comments. He doesn't know what you and I know. For starters, there would not be one teenager in Australia who hasn't puffed on Marijuana at least once, it's far easier for teenagers to get than cigarettes and alcohol.
The drugs issue is one of those "I wish you hadn't told me that!" areas.
If you tell the DAME, then they are required to take action. Once that action is taken and its on your record, even if the DAME then issues you a medical certificate then it appears unlikely any employer will hire you, ever. It's a catch 22 situation.
To put it another way, there is no point even attempting to start an aviation career if evidence (from you or anyone else) exists of prior drug use, even if you are completely "clean" for years.
I often have to go out of my way counselling various young people that what they do before the age of 18 DOES count as far as police and medical records go. Most of them think the slate is wiped clean at age 18 - it isn't.
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For starters, there would not be one teenager in Australia who hasn't puffed on Marijuana at least once,
J