Instructors with attitude problems
I had an instructor once hit me on the hand with a ruler to get my hand off the throttle, I told him if he did that again I would be hitting him in the face! Suffice to say we never flew together again,
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Avoid imitations
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I was a qualified RAF instructor on both fixed and rotary wing. I needed to do some refresher and recency flying on a SEP before taking the civvy CPL check ride. I had well over 1,000 hours on SEP, much of it as an instructor but hadn’t regularly flown a fixed wing for the previous three years. At the flying school I was given an instructor who was also RAF qualified (probably done for that very reason). It soon became obvious that we weren’t going to get on for long. All I felt I needed to do was to be allowed to settle in and relearn the attitudes and power settings needed to be able to fly accurately enough to satisfy my future examiner. However, even after a couple of trips where I felt I’d flown well enough to prove that I wasn’t going to kill us both this instructor just wouldn’t stop talking when I was flying. It was non stop. I couldn’t concentrate and discussed this with him in the debrief. Next flight up he was just the same, if not worse. I again asked him to desist and just let me get on with it but he became quite defensive and angry. I told him that I wanted to land off the next approach because I’d had enough. He told me that we WOULD be continuing! I told him that he had control because I wasn’t learning anything from him. He landed in a huff and immediately began to tell me that he was the instructor and knew best. I told him that I wouldn’t be flying with him again, got out, sought out the CFI and told him the same. I changed instructor; he was a retired group captain and far better to fly with! I thankfully passed my check ride a few days later.
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Well done, ST! Similar happened to me but I had to change flight schools instead.
Yeah.. It happens a lot, apparently.
For example, "Flight Examiners" who can't handle just sitting on their hands letting you fly the agreed route in an exam, but instead go full Instructor Mode: since (a) their way is better than anything you've been taught and (b) they have more hours than you and (c) they're technically PIC anyway, they insist on you doing everything they tell you or they'll fail you. "I don't care if you've been taught that way, do what I tell you!" "Yes Sir!!"
CRM in action (not!).
For example, "Flight Examiners" who can't handle just sitting on their hands letting you fly the agreed route in an exam, but instead go full Instructor Mode: since (a) their way is better than anything you've been taught and (b) they have more hours than you and (c) they're technically PIC anyway, they insist on you doing everything they tell you or they'll fail you. "I don't care if you've been taught that way, do what I tell you!" "Yes Sir!!"
CRM in action (not!).
Just about anyone can fly an aircraft, it's not that difficult, hence you can go solo in a plane well before you can do it in a car. However being a good instructor at anything takes aptitude and patience and no, you don't have to be the best pilot to do it. In fact those that have had to actually learn are better at understanding what is happening and relating it to new pilots than those that it comes easily to. It requires thought and study to be a good instructor, way beyond the training course provided. You have to be part pilot, teacher, psychologist, mentor and almost a parent/guardian to the student.
Using physical contact when instructing has no place and is not required, except maybe to remove a student from the controls in an emergency, but that's not normal. Physical contact and loss of calm is an instructor operating beyond their normal stress levels. Anyone hitting or berating, yelling at you is not helping you progress. If you are not progressing at the rate expected by the instructor the lesson should be cut short and a chat on the ground about what the issues are conducted in a calm and discussion based manner, no yelling, no lecturing, no berating, just facts about what went wrong, what is needed and how to get there.
Unfortunately these unsuited types are in the industry right up to airline checkers and management. If you come across them and they try this **** on you, shut the process down and request somebody else do the check/training. If it's done enough they will be removed from that position.
Remember as the trainee at any level it is your licence, career and progress that is going to suffer with the wrong match of personalities, so do not hesitate to ask for change if it's not working.
I once took over a debriefing in an airline check as the checker was demeaning the FO badly about their flying skills and not offering any constructive advice on how to fix it. I butted in and offered some ways the pilot could adjust their flying technique, the checker just stood and nodded. A few weeks later I bumped into the FO on line, he said he was about to quit until I had offered that advice as he had no idea what he was doing wrong and now after a bit of practice of the techniques I offered he was nailing it. It was pretty simple stuff like setting datums and power and attitudes to look for.
Using physical contact when instructing has no place and is not required, except maybe to remove a student from the controls in an emergency, but that's not normal. Physical contact and loss of calm is an instructor operating beyond their normal stress levels. Anyone hitting or berating, yelling at you is not helping you progress. If you are not progressing at the rate expected by the instructor the lesson should be cut short and a chat on the ground about what the issues are conducted in a calm and discussion based manner, no yelling, no lecturing, no berating, just facts about what went wrong, what is needed and how to get there.
Unfortunately these unsuited types are in the industry right up to airline checkers and management. If you come across them and they try this **** on you, shut the process down and request somebody else do the check/training. If it's done enough they will be removed from that position.
Remember as the trainee at any level it is your licence, career and progress that is going to suffer with the wrong match of personalities, so do not hesitate to ask for change if it's not working.
I once took over a debriefing in an airline check as the checker was demeaning the FO badly about their flying skills and not offering any constructive advice on how to fix it. I butted in and offered some ways the pilot could adjust their flying technique, the checker just stood and nodded. A few weeks later I bumped into the FO on line, he said he was about to quit until I had offered that advice as he had no idea what he was doing wrong and now after a bit of practice of the techniques I offered he was nailing it. It was pretty simple stuff like setting datums and power and attitudes to look for.
Last edited by 43Inches; 23rd Jan 2023 at 22:35.
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I had an instructor when I was doing my instrument rating who would berate me for some minor infraction of his standards then get even more upset with me when I looked at him while he was mid rant. He also suggested that I just focus on getting a single engine instrument rating which is next to useless if you are pursuing a career as a commercial pilot. This bloke's personal standard included having his trousers half way down his a$#@e and his shirt never tucked in. He was none too happy when 6 months later I was working part-time at the same flying school as a Grade III instructor and doing the occasional charter in the Company twin.
Last edited by Lookleft; 23rd Jan 2023 at 23:49.
I had an instructor when I was doing my instrument rating who would berate me for some minor infraction of his standards then get even more upset with me when I looked at him during while he was mid rant. He also suggested that I just focus on getting a single engine instrument rating which is next to useless if you are pursuing a career as a commercial pilot. This bloke's personal standard included having his trousers half way down his a$#@e and his shirt never tucked in. He was none too happy when 6 months later I was working part-time at the same flying school as a Grade III instructor and doing the occasional charter in the Company twin.
If an instructor is fixed to one set of techniques and not flexible, probably time to find another instructor.
I've come across a few of these fixed technique instructors that then struggle to teach in another aircraft type, because the technique they learned was a shortcut for their type, not generic to aviation.
If an instructor is fixed to one set of techniques and not flexible, probably time to find another instructor.
I've come across a few of these fixed technique instructors that then struggle to teach in another aircraft type, because the technique they learned was a shortcut for their type, not generic to aviation.
I've come across a few of these fixed technique instructors that then struggle to teach in another aircraft type, because the technique they learned was a shortcut for their type, not generic to aviation.
I know instructors are always on about their job entailing "teaching people who are trying to kill them", but the same holds true for instructors who, for example, inadvertently or otherwise get the numbers mixed up on the aircraft they're in and tell the student his/her speeds are wrong on short final..
If possible, make a recording of this "instructor" in action. once you are confident you can capture the behavior, tell him what you are doing and that future behavior will be reported. This person is undermining the confidence and safety of your pilot group.
I am bringing this back in 2023. I am currently experiencing dealing with an ACID TONGUE sim/line training captain who is EX-AIRFORCE training on a new type. He has nothing good to say to me and YELLS at everything instead of showing/explaining things. Guess he expects you to KNOW. Asking him a question leads to more YELLING!
ZERO CRM!
This does not work for me as it makes me extremely nervous and doubt everything I'm doing. He keeps demeaning me and my credentials. This really chips away at confidence levels.
It seems the company knows about them but does nothing. Sometimes these Dbags stand between you and unemployment and trying to keep up with them is exhausting as you have to suck it up.
Has anyone dealt with this at a company level?
ZERO CRM!
This does not work for me as it makes me extremely nervous and doubt everything I'm doing. He keeps demeaning me and my credentials. This really chips away at confidence levels.
It seems the company knows about them but does nothing. Sometimes these Dbags stand between you and unemployment and trying to keep up with them is exhausting as you have to suck it up.
Has anyone dealt with this at a company level?
If it hasn't happened to anyone else, then its you
Last edited by Brakerider; 24th Jan 2023 at 06:20.
We learnt in tandem seating aircraft, instructor sat in the rear, one student had his instructor undo his straps, lean forward and smack him about the head with his knee board, it's why we wore helmets, student wondered if he could get away with ramming in a bunch of forward stick but thought better of it. 
A story circulated at the time about a previous instructor who had the reputation of being a screamer, always regarded the story as being just that until I happened upon these videos.
A story circulated at the time about a previous instructor who had the reputation of being a screamer, always regarded the story as being just that until I happened upon these videos.
Instructors with attitude problems exist at all levels, from PPL to airline training. Screaming at trainees is not acceptable and counterproductive, ask to fly with someone else instead. Management will soon notice the trend and do something about it. There will always be personality clashes as not everyone can get on well with everybody else but these should be few and far between
Instructors with attitude problems exist at all levels, from PPL to airline training. Screaming at trainees is not acceptable and counterproductive, ask to fly with someone else instead. Management will soon notice the trend and do something about it. There will always be personality clashes as not everyone can get on well with everybody else but these should be few and far between
This depends on the organisational culture. In some airlines there is an entrenched old mate network within the training & checking department. The best you can hope for if you encounter such cronyism is to get your complaint on the record. Often, merely insisting on this sends a signal that you won't give up without a fight if they do the wrong thing by you.
Management will soon notice the trend and do something about it.
Sadly, management only saw the big dollar signs, and buckled to their demands, not wanting to lose the contract. I asked to not fly with this person, (whose Daddy was a general back home) and their response was "You are a Grade 1, go do your job." On his "wings test" (the conclusion was forgone when the cheque was cashed months before) he made zero effort to plan or fly in the correct manner, with me having to take over 3 times during the flight. He seemed to be provoking me for an argument, but I let everything go. In the debrief I gave him a "Satisfactory 3" result, with the comment "I expected you to stuff it up, and you satisfied my expectations." He was disappointed not to have a fight over a "Fail" assessment. Management changed the Satisfactory 3 to be an Excellent 4, and I left the company.
Instructors in GA are, unfortunately, mostly on the first rung of their career ladder.
ideally, if the money was in it, it would be experienced guys getting towards the end of their careers who could pass along the benefits of their years of flying. Even then there are those in that cohort that in no way should be allowed near humans.
I have been flying for 39 years from singles to wide bodies and have met a range of instructors that pretty evenly match the range of personalities out in the “real world”.
The teaching style of the instructor should ideally be able to be modified to suit the learning style of the student, but that isn’t always possible, so in the best case the instructor should recognise that and arrange an instructor better suited to the student. I have done that twice in airline training and it works out for the best, and it is not an admission of failure on my part but a recognition that I wasn’t what the student needed. Perhaps a little bruising to the ego but my ego wasn’t the important thing, the student was.
ideally, if the money was in it, it would be experienced guys getting towards the end of their careers who could pass along the benefits of their years of flying. Even then there are those in that cohort that in no way should be allowed near humans.
I have been flying for 39 years from singles to wide bodies and have met a range of instructors that pretty evenly match the range of personalities out in the “real world”.
The teaching style of the instructor should ideally be able to be modified to suit the learning style of the student, but that isn’t always possible, so in the best case the instructor should recognise that and arrange an instructor better suited to the student. I have done that twice in airline training and it works out for the best, and it is not an admission of failure on my part but a recognition that I wasn’t what the student needed. Perhaps a little bruising to the ego but my ego wasn’t the important thing, the student was.
I did my PPL at the RVAC at Moorabbin in the mid 60's, possibly the busiest years ever for GA. Everybody there yelled at the students , instructors, reception staff, fuel guy, ATC, engineers. Never had a pre flight briefing of a post flight debriefing.
Some years later in my first airline job one of my line training Captains had been an instructor at Royal Vic at the time. Nothing had changed, even the halitosis was still there.
Some years later in my first airline job one of my line training Captains had been an instructor at Royal Vic at the time. Nothing had changed, even the halitosis was still there.
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I am bringing this back in 2023. I am currently experiencing dealing with an ACID TONGUE sim/line training captain who is EX-AIRFORCE training on a new type. He has nothing good to say to me and YELLS at everything instead of showing/explaining things. Guess he expects you to KNOW. Asking him a question leads to more YELLING!
ZERO CRM!
This does not work for me as it makes me extremely nervous and doubt everything I'm doing. He keeps demeaning me and my credentials. This really chips away at confidence levels.
It seems the company knows about them but does nothing. Sometimes these Dbags stand between you and unemployment and trying to keep up with them is exhausting as you have to suck it up.
Has anyone dealt with this at a company level?
ZERO CRM!
This does not work for me as it makes me extremely nervous and doubt everything I'm doing. He keeps demeaning me and my credentials. This really chips away at confidence levels.
It seems the company knows about them but does nothing. Sometimes these Dbags stand between you and unemployment and trying to keep up with them is exhausting as you have to suck it up.
Has anyone dealt with this at a company level?
If you’re afraid of career repercussions join a union and seek them for advice on how to proceed. If reported and the company does not take action report it to your state’s Workplace Health and Safety body.
What you’ve just described sounds like workplace harassment and bullying, which is illegal and a breach of OH&S law.
If you’re afraid of career repercussions join a union and seek them for advice on how to proceed. If reported and the company does not take action report it to your state’s Workplace Health and Safety body.
If you’re afraid of career repercussions join a union and seek them for advice on how to proceed. If reported and the company does not take action report it to your state’s Workplace Health and Safety body.
Mate... Take it up with your chief pilot... or chief flying instructor...
I was in EXACTLY your position when I was learning to fly, every time I flew with this individual it almost reduced me to tears. So I went straight to the CFI and voiced my concern... and he said he'd make sure I never flew with that instructor again.
REMEMBER IT'S YOUR MONEY.... that you are spending. Spend it well
When I flew with that idiot instructor, it also made me question my ability to become a competent pilot.... now I'm flying big shiney jets over the world...
You'll be right
I was in EXACTLY your position when I was learning to fly, every time I flew with this individual it almost reduced me to tears. So I went straight to the CFI and voiced my concern... and he said he'd make sure I never flew with that instructor again.
REMEMBER IT'S YOUR MONEY.... that you are spending. Spend it well
When I flew with that idiot instructor, it also made me question my ability to become a competent pilot.... now I'm flying big shiney jets over the world...
You'll be right
You employ your flying school, CFI, instructor, the lot. They need to lift their game and figure out how YOU tick!
You employ your flying school, CFI, instructor, the lot. They need to lift their game and figure out how YOU tick!