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Instructors with attitude problems

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Instructors with attitude problems

Old 6th Feb 2008, 22:00
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Instructors with attitude problems

Has anyone ever had an instructor that would always yell at you, make you feel stupid and basically rubbish everything you did in the cockpit. Up until recently the instructors I've had, have all been patient and willing to teach you the skills you need to improve. But with this instructor it feels the more he complains the worst my flying gets. It makes me question my ability to be a pilot!

Am I the only one with this problem?
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Old 6th Feb 2008, 22:13
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Grrr

Yeah, I had an instructor during my early training who, if he wasn't yelling at me for something, was experiencing some sort of "air rage" toward other aircraft in the circuit, for minor inconveniences such as (shock, horror! ) finishing their runups faster and making it to the holding point first! Strange fellow..... think it might have been 'roid related somehow, given the amount of time said individual spent in the gym! Anyway, he's been moved on to a desk job now!

The Baffler
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Old 6th Feb 2008, 22:25
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Angry

No you are NOT the only one who has had or will have this situation.

As a wide body capt under training, was told that the questions I was occasionally asking "indicated a lack of knowledge". YOU THINK!!!!

As the apparent shortage of Instructors/Pilots gets to bite, many people who shouldn't do instructing will be in those positions, as they have in small numbers always been there.

Most good instructors are actally "born", some may be trained if they have the basic stuff, the rest actually struggle at the task with mixed results.

Some instructors can only teach by "checking" as they have a false sense of the standard, some who cannot reach that standard themselves, and provide only negative comments in the false premise that that will encourage the improvement in the student. The shouters and hitters, YES HITTERS, out there should be removed from the gene pool ASAP

Instructing is like building a brick wall, one "brick" at a time, fully supported by the prvious "brick" and always reviewed at the end of the lesson as to progress, skill development and future expectations in the process.

I have been privilaged to be an Instructor over many years in all classes of Aircraft, now mostly in the Simulator area and the situation you describe is not unique even in our so called "top of the pile", it has to be monitored and eliminated if at all possible by suitable supervision, sadly not always available

Change your Instructor at the very least, or the school if it is necessary and find someonewho will put enjoymentinto the learning process.

Cheers

Greybeard
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Old 6th Feb 2008, 22:46
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Originally Posted by Scorpion83
It makes me question my ability to be a pilot!
Don't let that sort of behaviour influence you at all -it tells you far more about that 'instructors' insecurity and personality issues than it will ever tell you about your own flying ability.

Many years ago I used to have an instructor that was very liberal with the use of the fuel-stick across the knuckles in acknowledgement of any errors on my behalf -usually failing to deselect carb air on short finals... it wasn't unusual to come away from a 30 minute lesson with swollen, painful knuckles on the right hand. Until the day on very short finals it got too much for me. That swipe of the fuel-stick saw me relinquish the controls, rail my seat fully aft and put me feet up on the dash -where his already were! He had to move very quickly indeed. We had a fairly serious -and loud- 'discussion' during the taxi to parking which culminated in my clouting the prick once the aircraft was shut down and secured.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that I recommend handling a similar situation in that manner -I don't. In retrospect I should have handled it completely differently -I certainly would today were it to happen again, but it was a long time ago, we were both considerably younger and sillier. He didn't do it again, I didn't forget carb air again and we went on to become close friends.

In your circumstance, my recommendation is simple: Find another instructor. Don't waste your time with this idiot. It is your money, your time and your training that is being hampered by this fool. It's up to you to make the necessary changes. You obviously have a problem or you would never have posted here. Get it sorted.

This sort of behaviour is, as I see it, an inevitable consequence of the lack of industry experience of the majority of 'instructors' in industry today. Bare 200hr CPL's should not be even considered as candidates for instructor ratings. All too often they lack the experience of life, intra-personal relationships, maturity and even basic aviation experience to consolidate their own training before they are training other candidates. It's not usually necessary to take too many steps onto the tarmac before you find someone willing to give you full benefit of their 'experience' -all 250 hrs of it.

Take the time to look around, find yourself an experienced instructor -often you'll find they're the ones with a little (or a lot) of grey hair, a couple or three full logbooks and an extremely laid back, placid manner. You might have a little bother getting a booking with them -they'll probably have a fairly full roster of students on the go- but persist. It'll be worth it.
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Old 6th Feb 2008, 22:55
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Never take unecessary crap from an instructor BUT the onus is also on you to be fully prepared for your lesson. There were times wher I was yelled at by my instructor probably due to him at witts end because all the hard work he put in was not being replicated at my end and the end of my other class mates. I think it is a two edged sword (cant believe Im defending circuit heros), put in the time out of the aircraft getting it right and frustration levels in the aircraft will be far less.
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Old 6th Feb 2008, 23:55
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Yep

You get a few like that who will do what they can to make you feel inferior. I think many of us have experienced some sort of it. Even if students get things not quite right, I believe it should be dealt with in a polite manner as they will be more receptive to feedback (unless something really needs to be actioned)

However, all you can do it take it on the chin and don't take it personally.
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 00:22
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Mate... Take it up with your chief pilot... or chief flying instructor...

I was in EXACTLY your position when I was learning to fly, every time I flew with this individual it almost reduced me to tears. So I went straight to the CFI and voiced my concern... and he said he'd make sure I never flew with that instructor again.

REMEMBER IT'S YOUR MONEY.... that you are spending. Spend it well

When I flew with that idiot instructor, it also made me question my ability to become a competent pilot.... now I'm flying big shiney jets over the world...

You'll be right
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 01:00
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There are so many instructors out there that fit this bill. I almost failed my UPPL test in '90 because of one of these knobs. You can't accept any unreasonable stick from them because it will effect you're ability to learn, but even worse, your ability to enjoy.

Walrus
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 02:39
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I have to agree with the majority of posts here. I don't mind being told I am wrong, or even foolish if that is true, I don't mind the instructor raising his voice slightly to make his point and, if safety is at risk he can shout and take over the aircraft. However he will not get away with insulting me, putting me down, shouting simply because he can't be reasonable or control his temper and, it would not be smart of him to hit me.

If I was sufficiently annoyed by any of his behaviour or I thought that for any reason our relationship was causing my training to suffer, I would be in the CFI's office requesting a new instructor, or down the road at the next school. I'm paying a minimum of $200 bucks an hour for flight training, not for abuse, I can get that free from anywhere.

I do agree with the greybearded one, more mature and experienced instructors are fantastic, if you can get them, and you usually need to book ahead. My current guy is pretty good, although young enough to be my son! He's got a good attitude though and works hard, besides, we get along well.

Scorpion, ditch your instructor and/or your school, and remember this, at some stage during your personal and flying development you'll need to learn to take command of your situation and not let your situation take command of you, certainly your flying career depends on that.

Best of luck with everything mate.

ABX
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 02:48
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I'm relieved to hear that it's not just me. The main down side about ditching my instructor is the delays in my training schedule. I'm gonna have a bit of a talk to him, let him know what I think and if he doesn't change move on to another instructor. I can't afford to have doubts in myself at this stage of my training. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 02:59
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"I don't mind the instructor raising his voice slightly to make his point and ...."

Geez, I think every instructor I have spent any amount of time with has yelled at me some point!

"Hold it off" - "Hold it off" - "HOLD IT OFF" - "HOLD THE F*CKING THING OFF"

"Go 'round" - "Go 'round" - "GO 'ROUND" - "FOR F*CK SAKE WILL YOU GO 'ROUND"

I have even, on the very odd occassion, yelled back, "Would you please just shut-up and let me fly the aeroplane"!

... but they mostly became, and many remain, long term friends.

This is quite different to being constantly put down. Scorpion83, you need to change instructors, if not Schools, pronto!

Dr

Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 7th Feb 2008 at 03:35.
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 03:24
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i think there is a big difference bewteen an instructor who really cares about their students but may not have enough experience to handle all situations with aplomb, and an instructor who does not really care and acts like a goose.

the first group, while obviously not ideal, will learn with time and practice. they should not be denigrated but should be treated like you yourself would like. if you think your instructor is in this group, i suggest a quiet chat will help.

if your instructor is in the second group, ditch them ASAP.
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 03:53
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Thumbs up You are Paying

Hi Scorpion83 ,
First, you are paying him/her to be in the aircraft to teach you to fly. You are paying him/her!!!!!! You are not paying him/her to be abusive, offensive and insulting. You are paying him/her to teach you, and assist you to improve your flying.

DONĒT PUT UP WITH AN INSULTIVE INSTRUCTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only one time should the voiced be raised in the cockpit. That is in a critical situation. And the voice should not be aimed at you, but rather at the situation that needs immediate attention. ( FUL POWER!! NOSE UP, GO AROUND ) and shrieking should be a last resort!! And that is the only time an instructor should yell. If they bellow in a non-critical situation, then they have a problem, with themselves.

YOU MUST CHANGE INSTRUCTORS

Report the style of teaching to the Chief Pilot and question him/her if itís the schools typical method of teaching in an aeroplane. The answer will be no, Iím sure.

Otherwise, TELL the instructor, to adjust his teaching technique, to suit your style, if he canít then erase him from you air classes. You pay him, with your money. Never ever put up with some one that you are not happy in, in any field, if you are paying them!!!!!!!!
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 04:24
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FTDK, yeah mate I do agree, it would be 'un-Australian' not to punctuate the conversation with a few f*cking expletives, I don't mind that at all. When its done as a put down I get pissed off. The examples you gave would be no problem to me at all, however if he said, "Hold it off you f*cking idiot" I'd see red.

I suspect that some instructors forget that once they too were green wannabes that didn't always get it right.
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 04:36
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Reflection

... but they mostly became, and many remain, long term friends.
FTDK, I have often thought back on life and realised that a few of the blokes I'd rather have a beer with are also those with whom I have had a blue and then sorted it out.

I notice also, when reading the posts here on PPRuNe that although being a professional pilot takes you far away from your mates the friendships seem to last. It is common to see people catching up here in the forums and arranging a time have a drink with old mates.

ABX

I've also seen a few instances where the hatred lasts even longer!
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 04:43
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ABX

The FTDK still talks to me...........I promise I never bent his plane..... Actually I dont think we got past ....A bit more rudder, A bit more rudder

He did in one of his briefs say....."Behind that prop is 285 ponies, and not one has equine flu, so plenty of right foot young Jaba!

J
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 04:54
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"Actually I dont think we got past ....A bit more rudder, A bit more rudder"

But we were only a bee's dick away from, "Jeeeeez Jaba, PUSH THE RIGHT F*CKING RUDDER PEDAL WILL YA!

Dr
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 04:54
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Hey Jaba, I don't think I can afford to learn in a FTDK, even if the good Doc was available for lessons!

Behind that prop is 285 ponies...
Yeah, I do get the impression that the FTDK is maintained pretty well... although I'm not sure about the maintenance of its regular driver!

In one of my earliest posts on PPRuNe I commented something along the lines of "if only Chuck would open a flight school". Perhaps the Doc and Chuck together? Or maybe that would cause too much strain on the local liquor establishments!

ABX
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 05:24
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"if only Chuck would open a flight school"

Gawd 'elp us- I can just see it now!
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Old 7th Feb 2008, 05:24
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knew of one with bad attitude but he landed and got the A/H repaired

*baadddum ching*
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