27th Jan 2019, 13:21 - Wikipost
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A thread where ex PNG geriatrics lapuns and long longs can live in the dim distant past.
Where tall stories are accepted as fact. War stories are applauded. Grab a Brownie, pull up a story and join in a trip down memory lane!!! 
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PNG Ples Bilong Tok Tok
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: GOLD COAST
Age: 83
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greejohn your post 3381
Look under "McLean" on the Qld Surveyors Board website.The full name is Ian
McLean-Hodgson.P2 WDL was written off at Doini, an island strip six miles SSE of Samarai.I will do a post in the next few days about the incident, complete with photos.
McLean-Hodgson.P2 WDL was written off at Doini, an island strip six miles SSE of Samarai.I will do a post in the next few days about the incident, complete with photos.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Brisbane Australia
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Yuki White
Many will remember Yuki White at Pixie , Mamager Tokyo , Manager Brisbane amongst other things.
She has just passed away after a short illness.
Sayonara .
She has just passed away after a short illness.
Sayonara .
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Bob johns
I would like to add my name to list.I was with Aerial Tours POM ,DAU ,POM nov 73 mid 74 then Macair Lae then Mendi until Talair buy out and onward until retrenched in July 76. .Was back a couple of times later L.andT .in 89 then MBA 91 until went south sick with malaria and hep A and couldnt get my old job back. regards Bob
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: in them thar hills
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Does anyone know anything about a Twin Otter apparently got too low on 9th July and picked up some splinters? Everyone reported safe but crew needed laundry. Pics anyone?
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Yes. ..................................
Len O'Shea retired in BNE.
Noel Fewster flew with DZ-not sure about GV
Kieth and Kathy Burrows last spotted flying Viscounts in the UK
Ron Buchanan top bloke-passed away-when why? Last heard he was fire spotting in a Aerostar.
A few more for the list;
The two 'Ricks' the lighter and darker: Rick Johnson and Rikky Johnson.Glen Cartwright. All in the 80s
Noel Fewster flew with DZ-not sure about GV
Kieth and Kathy Burrows last spotted flying Viscounts in the UK
Ron Buchanan top bloke-passed away-when why? Last heard he was fire spotting in a Aerostar.
A few more for the list;
The two 'Ricks' the lighter and darker: Rick Johnson and Rikky Johnson.Glen Cartwright. All in the 80s
What are you talking about gas chamber ?
News to me. Hope the crew are ok and the aircraft isn't badly damaged.
Any hints as to who the operator was, and where did the incident happen ?
News to me. Hope the crew are ok and the aircraft isn't badly damaged.
Any hints as to who the operator was, and where did the incident happen ?
The aircraft hit trees trying to cross a gap at approx 9500ft. It landed at Mt Hagen with no injuries, but both wings are quite extensively damaged.
On the day, the weather in the area was not suitable for VFR operations.
Yes, I have photos, but to release them would identify the operator which someone else may wish to do, not me. I would prefer to see a proper investigation and finding first.
On the day, the weather in the area was not suitable for VFR operations.
Yes, I have photos, but to release them would identify the operator which someone else may wish to do, not me. I would prefer to see a proper investigation and finding first.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
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WTF is going on
As SLF who was recently asked by his company to fly into Porgera via Mt Hagen. I was naturally interested in this thread. Having heard from someone who came out of Porgera (Karik?) by bus that day because they couldn't fly and saw the damaged Twin Otter at Hagen, i believe it to have been a APNG plane. APNG subsequently operated his flight from Mt Hagen to Cairns (obviously not with that aircraft 
).
Why is there ANY issue with identifying the operator @#!$!@#$#@$!
Tiger just got grounded here in Australia for decents below safe minimums, and yet you all appear to be operating in a environment where even to discuss a real incident that came within meters of killing everyone on board is problematic...
Have the pilots involved been suspended ? Has an official investigation been started ? Why is there no media involvement ? etc etc
Should i even consider getting on a aircraft in PNG ?
).Why is there ANY issue with identifying the operator @#!$!@#$#@$!
Tiger just got grounded here in Australia for decents below safe minimums, and yet you all appear to be operating in a environment where even to discuss a real incident that came within meters of killing everyone on board is problematic...
Have the pilots involved been suspended ? Has an official investigation been started ? Why is there no media involvement ? etc etc
Should i even consider getting on a aircraft in PNG ?
Moderator
"....and yet you all appear to be operating in a environment where even to discuss a real incident that came within meters of killing everyone on board is problematic..."
Is it? Of course if you have the expertise to contribute to a constructive, professional, competent and factual debate as to why the incident occurred, be my guest. We have no knowledge of the facts of how or why the incident occurred and are content to wait for the official, factual report in due course, at which time I'm sure those here with the experience and qualifications will discuss it in detail.
I like your comparison to Tiger! Tiger flew at 1,300 feet above sea level in an area where the published Lowest Safe Altitude is 2,000 feet above sea level. Do you think that was the sole reason Tiger was grounded? Do you think those pilots were suspended?
I can't remember the published Lowest Safe Altitude where the PNG incident occurred but it is probably somewhere around 14,000 feet or more above sea level? The incident occurred at an altitude around 9,500 feet above sea level. You think because the pilots were flying 4,500 feet below the published Lowest Safe Altitude they were operating illegally and should be suspended?
"Have the pilots involved been suspended ? Has an official investigation been started ? Why is there no media involvement ? etc etc"
No idea but I'm happy to provide all the phone numbers. You can call and ask someone who cares?
"Should i even consider getting on a aircraft in PNG ?"
Your decision I guess? I did for 23 years and am still here. Of course, you could probably get a PMV if you think that would be safer?
Is it? Of course if you have the expertise to contribute to a constructive, professional, competent and factual debate as to why the incident occurred, be my guest. We have no knowledge of the facts of how or why the incident occurred and are content to wait for the official, factual report in due course, at which time I'm sure those here with the experience and qualifications will discuss it in detail.
I like your comparison to Tiger!
Tiger flew at 1,300 feet above sea level in an area where the published Lowest Safe Altitude is 2,000 feet above sea level. Do you think that was the sole reason Tiger was grounded? Do you think those pilots were suspended?I can't remember the published Lowest Safe Altitude where the PNG incident occurred but it is probably somewhere around 14,000 feet or more above sea level? The incident occurred at an altitude around 9,500 feet above sea level. You think because the pilots were flying 4,500 feet below the published Lowest Safe Altitude they were operating illegally and should be suspended?
"Have the pilots involved been suspended ? Has an official investigation been started ? Why is there no media involvement ? etc etc"
No idea but I'm happy to provide all the phone numbers. You can call and ask someone who cares?
"Should i even consider getting on a aircraft in PNG ?"
Your decision I guess? I did for 23 years and am still here. Of course, you could probably get a PMV if you think that would be safer?
Cummon tail wheel, pull the other one, there is no mercy in ripping in to some operators locally, along with a truck load of speculation after an incident - what makes this operator exempt from the usual trial by forum?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Enroute from Dagobah to Tatooine...!
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Which gap is 9500' Hagen - Porgera?
For Joe Bloggs info, there is a lot of flying below a technically 'lowest safe altitude' in PNG by necessity. In order to be above all the terrain in PNG one usually has to be flying quite high and in a pressurised aircraft. A lot of Twin Otter (unpressurised aircraft) work is done at lower levels on shorter routes and down in valleys with weather and terrain around you that is higher. So for this reason the flying environment in PNG is much different to Australia. Every pilot always wants to get home to his family at the end of the day - they are not flying around with death wishes. PNG does have unique challenges and is a much more unforgiving environment. If you are not willing to accept that, then don't go.
Moderator
Kuta Ridge I believe, APNG Twin Otter according to JoeBloggs post, 9,500 ft according to Mach E Avelli's post, although I have no real facts of the incident, operator or aircraft. Not the first time the trees have been trimmed in PNG.
Feel free to discuss if you have facts but please, not the usual uninformed, outrageous speculation that often gets posted about aircraft incidents.
Thought Bloggs first post, as a self professed SLF, was a little over the top, particularly the comparison to Tiger. Must be getting too old and cranky!
Feel free to discuss if you have facts but please, not the usual uninformed, outrageous speculation that often gets posted about aircraft incidents.
Thought Bloggs first post, as a self professed SLF, was a little over the top, particularly the comparison to Tiger. Must be getting too old and cranky!
Join Date: Jul 2011
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No i don't have all the facts. That is why i am trying to open up this discussion so i can get better information if it's available... What really happened and what can be done / has been done to prevent it happening again ? I realise that it's only been a week but some of my collegues are scheduled to be flying there within the month, they have young families, should they be concerned ?
IIRC the report into the Kokoda Twin Otter crash made any number of recommendations about marginal VFR operations, have APNG adopted / implemented some / all / any of them ?
The comparison with Tiger was more about the fact that those incidents were discussed on these forums without fear or favour when they occurred and named the carrier, why the problem in naming the carrier in this incident ?
I'm not suggesting that the flight was from Porgera (they didn't fly that day, as far as i know)
Yes i'm getting old and cranky
IIRC the report into the Kokoda Twin Otter crash made any number of recommendations about marginal VFR operations, have APNG adopted / implemented some / all / any of them ?
The comparison with Tiger was more about the fact that those incidents were discussed on these forums without fear or favour when they occurred and named the carrier, why the problem in naming the carrier in this incident ?
I'm not suggesting that the flight was from Porgera (they didn't fly that day, as far as i know)
Yes i'm getting old and cranky
Moderator
I don't think anyone here has any more information than what has already been posted? Most of the guys that post in this thread left PNG a number of years ago. I don't know what recommendations were made after the Kokoda accident, but I am sure APNG have an excellent safety culture and would be taking every action possible to avoid accidents.
No problems in discussing the incident, but how can it be discussed intelligently when no one knows the facts?
I'm 2,356 kilometers from Mt Hagen and that is about as close as I want to be!
"What really happened..." It would be pure speculation but I suspect the pilot was flying through a gap in inclement weather, as probably happens most days in PNG? In unpressurised aircraft, there is often no option. What answers are you looking for?
Unfortunately incidents of this nature have been happening in PNG since before Peter Manser was endorsed on DC3s! The nature of the terrain, weather patterns in PNG and particularly the Highlands seem to make accidents inevitable, even for the most experienced and cautious PNG pilots. Flying in PNG is very different to flying in Australia.
There has probably been at least twenty aircraft accidents within twenty kilometers of Kagamuga over the years and some of those by very experienced PNG pilots. Many who post here worked, lived and survived ten or twenty years in PNG. Many of our friends and colleagues did not survive.
I guess you need to make your own decisions whether you continue working in PNG?
No problems in discussing the incident, but how can it be discussed intelligently when no one knows the facts?
I'm 2,356 kilometers from Mt Hagen and that is about as close as I want to be!
"What really happened..." It would be pure speculation but I suspect the pilot was flying through a gap in inclement weather, as probably happens most days in PNG? In unpressurised aircraft, there is often no option. What answers are you looking for?
Unfortunately incidents of this nature have been happening in PNG since before Peter Manser was endorsed on DC3s! The nature of the terrain, weather patterns in PNG and particularly the Highlands seem to make accidents inevitable, even for the most experienced and cautious PNG pilots. Flying in PNG is very different to flying in Australia.
There has probably been at least twenty aircraft accidents within twenty kilometers of Kagamuga over the years and some of those by very experienced PNG pilots. Many who post here worked, lived and survived ten or twenty years in PNG. Many of our friends and colleagues did not survive.
I guess you need to make your own decisions whether you continue working in PNG?