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Norwegian

Old 23rd Feb 2008, 04:30
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seattle, WA U.S.A.
Age: 49
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Hey, thanks for the tip on Naples Air Center. I think that might be my best bet as far as distance learning and having a place in the U.S. for the brush up ground school and testing at the end of the course. It's looking like a long, hard slog to get though the ATPL, license conversions and the rest of it but hopefully by this time next year I'll have the quals to put an application in to Norwegian.

Does anyone know if Norwegian is O.K/not O.K. with dropping by their corporate offices to introduce yourself and drop off a resume? I know some carriers would rather it was all conducted through the recommended channels and some don't mind meeting interested applicants face to face. Was wondering if it would be worth the time to swing by for a few minutes the next time I'm in Oslo.
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 10:39
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Hej,

After reading this thread I understood rostering is 5-3-5-4. Home bases and routes are known to me. Not to many ID90/100 possibilities.

What I would like to know is, how is the working atmosphere at Norwegian(colleagues, managment etc) ? It is possibly already explained in Norwegian language (which I don`t speak yet), but how are payment and holiday. Any info about the selection, must be more than only an interview isn`t it ?

At the moment I fly for a well paying small 737/NG/Classic operator in Europe with very limited upgrade possibilities for the coming 10 years. I flew already 5000 hours B737 for them. Working atmoshpere could be better too.

Thanks,

A.T.
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 20:14
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Thumbs up

Hej Dovregubben,

Thanks a lot for your quick and friendly reply. Usefull info.

A.T.
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Old 9th Mar 2008, 14:10
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: norway
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Ja det stemmer at NAS iallefall har ansatt det dem trenger frem til sommeren. Men det stemmer også at 1500 timerskravet bare er der for syns skyld. Jeg har en kilde som sier at flere for tiden har 600 timer ved ansettelse. Det laveste som er ansatt er visst 450 timer, men sikkert med gode kontakter.

Last edited by bararo; 10th Mar 2008 at 19:54.
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Old 9th Mar 2008, 22:40
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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For omtrent 3 år siden var kravet bl.a. 1500 total, men man måtte ha 2000 total for å komme på intervju . Tidene forandrer seg og det er pr idag pilotens marked. Tipper de snart må begynne å spandere rating på sine søkere
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Old 10th Mar 2008, 08:07
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Vi får se, men hvis det er sant som det sies her at de ansetter folk med langt under deres egne krav, samtidig som de tidligere i vinter har uttalt at det fort kan bli aktuelt å være med på MPL sertifikat-greiene så sier det meg at markedet i Norge er nesten helt støvsugd for piloter med erfaring. Altså, hvis man er lowtimer så er mulighetene mye mye større enn på lenge for å lande en jobb . Man kjøper seg ikke jobb hvis man ikke er pinadø nødt?
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Old 10th Mar 2008, 08:17
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Norway
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Fat chance.....
Kjos´ern selv mener at han må begynne å spandere ratinger fra ca. neste år (jeg snakket med mannen selv).
Jeg tror ikke det er så urealistisk. Selv om det finnes mange norske piloter med rating, er det ikke alle som vil hjem igjen til Norge.
Time will show
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Old 10th Mar 2008, 08:49
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Det må være feil at gj.snittspiloten har 600 timer ved ansettelse. Kjenner flere som har startet i DY siste månedene, alle med mye og god erfaring. Og alle som de har gått på kurs med har også hatt godt med timer og operativ erfaring, mange fra 737 og andre hårfønere.

Men det begynner nok å tynnes ut i rekkene av de med erfaring
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Old 10th Mar 2008, 12:27
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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DY ansetter med 450 timer? Akkurat det tviler jeg på.
Men, en prislapp på 220.000nok for 737 rating utgår, da humper jeg heller rundt i beech litt til...

Hadde vært greit å betalt ned flylånet, ikke øke det..
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Old 10th Mar 2008, 20:28
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Dovregubben, nå må du forklare hvem som krever 1500 total og betaler 300.191 i startlønn? Og en rating til 180.00 er vel bare for selve ratingen? Man skal da også betjene sine andre lån samtidig som man skal ha penger å leve for de ca 2 månedene man er på kurs? Tipper dette er nærmere 250.000 når man summerer alle utgifter. Og jeg kjenner mange som har betalt en rating, men ikke en eneste en av dem er i nærheten av å betale den ned på 1 år. De fleste tar den over mange år, gjerne i.f.m. et refinansiert noliglån e.l. Hvor mye har man da betalt for jobben sin?
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Old 10th Mar 2008, 20:33
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Guttn! you got it!!
Bra sagt!
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Old 11th Mar 2008, 07:06
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Haugesund, Norway
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42? Not fifty?

It's been lots of different roumors about the buying of the new Norshuttles. Someone say they put in an order for 42, as you say.
Norwegian's spokesman, have said that they did actually put an order for 50 brand new 737-800's, what will be delivered from february 2008 to sometime in 2014, I think it was. A guy I know, he works at OSL. He said that the three first aircraft were ex. Air Europa. LN-NOB, -NOC and -NOD. Though that proved to be wrong, since the firs B738 came directly in from Boeing Field, Seattle...

I don't think it's been a so open debate. No one has actually cared so much about the buying, that anyone knows for sure
First AFTER the orders was put in, people started caring a lot.
Myself, I think it was stupid to buy the B738.. But off course, it strengthens the airline's position in the European airline market.
The could have bought just B737's or B739's instead. Don't know why I say it, but I just don't like B738, and I'm not the only one.

Well.. Anways. Yes, I know they are hiring too, and they have many hubs in Norway, including WAW in Poland. The airline is under a HUGE expasion-period right now. It's closing up on SAS on European flights. They are looking on eachother as might concurrents. Which is quite ironic, after the know, new Norwegian's only 6 year of operation-period.

But Norwegian - rock on. :]
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Old 11th Mar 2008, 20:22
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Guttn, får ikke helt med meg spørsmålet ditt. Inngangslønnen som jeg nevner er tatt direkte ut av Norwegians K-avtale.

Trykk ON på kalkulatoren din og legg inn et handicap på 164.000 fra første år og regn ut tap i livslønn, tipper at også du kommer til at investeringen blir bra. Nå er det jo ikke akkurat en aktuell problemstilling siden selskapet kun aksepterer piloter med gyldig 73 rating, men dog.

De jeg kjenner har kjøpt ratinger og brukt alt fra 149000 til litt i overkant av 180. Dine løpende utgifter til livsopphold og finans har du vel uansett. Nå får du CBT homestudy kurs som du sikkert fikser på noen uker selv ,med noen få dager klasseromsundervisning på tampen. Videre 8-12 simulatorpass, så en dag med touch and go på flyet. Det er klart at skal man rote bor flere måneder på å få seg en rating så kan det jo bli dyrt. De fleste bruker opptjent ferie kombinert med turnusfri og flere jeg vet om har ikke tapt en krone lønn i sin kursperiode.

1500t er i beste fall "guidence". Norwegians OM-A beskriver min.qualifications alt fra Alt 1 som er 1500TT/500MPA/300 on type or equivalent type. Laveste inntakskrav er for kandidater med mindre enn 600timer.

Men som mange allerede har påpekt er det en god tilstrømning av søkere med massiv erfaring. Og som noen av sjefspilotene uttrykker det har man ihvertfall ikke rekrutteringsproblemer i 2008.
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Old 11th Mar 2008, 20:58
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Har NAS 300000 i brutto grunnlønn? Det er da ikke så veldig bra, med tanke på de høye timekravene samt at man med møte med gyldig 737 rating. Skjønner at det er tillegg for diverse, pluss dietter, men allikevel... Det er jo ikke mye mer enn hva Coast hadde i begynnerlønn...

Vet ikke jeg, men i mine ører rimer det ikke. Men dette er jo smak og behag, og hva som den enkelte syns er vikitgst for sin egen karriere. Syns bare det er synd at et sånt selskap ikke gir typerating og lønn fra dag 1 på kurs.

My 2 cents
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Old 11th Mar 2008, 23:24
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 48
@ Guttn

You always make comments about Norwegian, in my opinion always about how mean and bad they are and so cruel of them wanting you to have a valid TR before starting with them.

Yet you still don´t understand what Dovregubben is trying to tell. Open your eyes and read the posts again. He is NOT saying that if you have 1500hr TT and a TR you get 300.191, you get 300.191 as starting salary if Norwegian would Typerate you.

So lets get things straight:

1: You have 1500hr total time (500 multicrew) and pay for your own TR, you start with 460 000 Nkr yearly(strinn 4).

2: You have 1500hr total time (500 multicrew) and Norwegian pays for your TR, you start with 300 191 Nkr yearly(strinn 2).

If step 2 happens, the next 2 years you will earn 160 000 Nkr (year one), and 150 000 (year 2) less compared too if you choose step 1.

So, during 2 years you earn 310 000Nkr less, take away taxes and that is about 200 000Nkr. The coming 12 years you will constantly lagg 2 year (approx. 50000 Nkr) untill you hit the highest "strinn".

So, which way is most economically best for you?

So far I have yet to see a higher starting salary in Scandinavia if you have 1500TT, but maybe you can enlighten me. From what I understand, it is higher than both WF and SAS?

I get it you work for Wideroe? Good for you, a nice company to work for and I hope you enjoy it. But I, a Norwegian pilot, would never dream of making a lot of comments (specially with a bit of sour taste) about a company I don´t have all the facts about.

Now take care and read posts more carefully

Happy landings, TFM
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Old 12th Mar 2008, 08:08
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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TFM, yupp I read it again after I posted, as it seemed to be not so easy to understand. Liked your way of clarifying the 2 different angles a lot better .

So let`s get the facts straight then; salary with a TR at NAS is higher than all else in Norway. Salary without a TR (NAS gives you one) is lower than both Lufttransport and WF (not sure about SAS, but I think they`re around 300000). The difference is that with LT, WF and SK you don`t have to ask the bank for money (or your rich uncle for that matter) when it`s time for employment. Heck, those crazy kids even pay you to do their TR .
Excemption; if you already have flown the 737 and didn`t have to put money up front to begin with.

As I previously mention - it`s about what suits the individual pilot best. And it`s not only about salaries for a lot of pilots. It`s also about "the whole package" offered by the given company. Still offended? Sorry dude.
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Old 12th Mar 2008, 09:44
  #117 (permalink)  

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...og det vil ikke koste 220k for ratingen hvis du kan presse den inn i ferie og friperioder. Jeg slapp unna med 167k inkludert landingsrundene hos Sterling. Tok det i ferien, så jeg tapte ingen lønn. Betalte i EUR, så det avhenger jo av valutakursene også.
Siden DY har en TRTO-godkjenning på trappene (vet ikke om alle findings/concerns er lukket etter første inspeksjon fra LT ennå?), er det nok snakk om å tilby rating i en eller annen form. Det er også lagt inn diverse tabeller med nye timekrav/bonding i OM-en.
Bare det å bake de 3-4 obligatoriske interne passene inn i ratingen - i stedet for i tillegg til en ekstern rating - bruke DY-prosedyrer (og TRI-er) ville spart mye tid, penger og arbeid og streamlinet operasjonen betraktelig. DY kunne fremdeles betalt for 3-4 pass, og dermed spart kandidaten for tilsvarende.

Hva angår startlønna i DY (1.500h TT) så er ikke så langt unna WF hvis man deler lønn på antall flytimer eller arbeidstimer. WF har dessuten et idiotisk stort overskudd for tida, kombinert med en god del oppsigelser, så med K-08 under oppseiling spørs det om ikke startlønna blir justert opp. her må DY bare henge på. Hvis WF i tillegg fikk pølsefingrene ut av bakenden og opprettet baser på Værnes eller Sola vil kanskje ikke DY være så attraktiv lenger? Men alt avhenger jo av om man ser på grunnlønn eller hele pakka inkludert tillegg. Dietten (satsene) i DY ligger 50% over WF, og er med på å dra opp utbetalingene betraktelig. Men den er jo ikke pensjonsgivende.
Jeg skal nok innrømme at utbetalt lønn er det som teller for min del akkurat nå. Fritid er verdt mye, men betaler ikke regningene. Det er unektelig slik at jeg i min andre måned i DY fikk utbetalt det samme som i det 6. året i WF... Det er de yngste, med skyhøye utdanningskostnader, ny-startet familie med hus- og billån som trenger pengene - ikke de over 60 med null gjeld og ingen forpliktelser. Her vinner DY. Ingen pendling, mer utbetalt, oftere hjemme til kvelds. Da var jeg solgt. DY har heller ikke WFs latterlige lønnsstige på 26 (eller er det 24/25 nå) trinn!!! Tar jo en evighet å klatre oppover.
Ikke everyone´s cup of tea, men vi har alle forskjellige behov.
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Old 12th Mar 2008, 10:05
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
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Posts: 48
Guttn, I was never offended, just wanted to get things straight.

I totally agree with you that offcourse it is nice not having to pay for the TR yourself, but with NAS way of "rewarding" with a higher starting salary, I believe is the best way of doing it.

There is also a reason to why NAS have gone this way. They wanted to attract experienced Norwegian pilots working abroad and also NAS don´t have a TRTO, so the way of doing it was to require a valid TR, pay them enough so they wanted to return home.
I believe the majority of pilots starting with NAS have 737 experience. We have a lot of exSAS/BU, quite a few come from Ryan, some from easyJet, a few norwegian Sterling pilots. Not to mention all the ex FlyMe and Falcon pilots.

On top of this a lot of pilots in Norway saw a chance to switch employer and they got the same offer: "we still don´t have a TRTO but if you get a TR on 737 we will employ you, with a good salary".

A TRTO costs money, and now NAS spent the money on salary to the pilots instead with focus on the expansion. Fair in my point of view. What the future has to bring we yet have to see.

In my case, I had a TR (didn´t pay for it) and +1000hrs on the type, Norwegian was the absolutely best company to join when returning home. Even though initially taking a pay cut, it was very small and now with the strong NKR, I´ve actually had a pay increase.
Sterling and FlyMe(still alive at the time) offered much lower salary and we all know SK haven´t recruited since 2000, but as you say they probably will offer a lower initially salary as well.

It is a lot of talk about when SAS starts calling pilots back and recruiting the floodgates from NAS will open. Unless they up their salary I´m unsure that will happen. You also have to look at your lifelong earnings. If you step down 200 000Nkr yearly, it will take you quite some years to gain that back. With (assuming now, forgive if wrong) a longer time to Command at SAS, you might never catch up. Unless SAS recognize experience when recruiting again, they might have problem attracting the right mix of people. As before, the future will tell.

And to sum up, real happy for you WF guys that the Q400 will return!

TFM
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Old 12th Mar 2008, 10:10
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: @ some hotel far away from everything
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Crossunder, helt klart. Er man smart så gjør man dette i ferie og friperioder, så må man heller ikke ut med såååå mye cash.

Forskjellene er nok ikke så store som man skulle trodd, og som du sier så er det opp til den enkelte. Selv har jeg det bedre som ukependler til nord enn om jeg skulle vært dagpendler til OSL. Har gjort sistnevnte noen år (ikke for DY) og det tok nesten livet av meg på E-6 ved 2 tilfeller. Jeg får også mye mere sammenhengende tid hjemme med familen min når jeg har fri. For meg er det veldig viktig. En annen ting som er like viktig er at jeg synes det er utroooolig moro med kortbaneoperasjoner.

Man kan uansett enes om at det er pilotenes marked. Mulighetene burde være store for at man kan få seg den jobben man selv ønsker, og ikke må ta til takke med dårlige betingelser.

Punktum?
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Old 12th Mar 2008, 16:05
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 77
SAS new pay scale start at appr 380.000, and stop at 980.000 as FC on regional aircraft after 18 years. If you end as FC in mainline, you can add appr 25% on that after another 8 years.

The fired pilots will though start on the old scale, and alreade have an average of 3 years seniority, giving them a salary of 6-700.000 if they return to SAS on ltr 3-4.

These figures are as of K06, and you can probably add 3-4% per year by april 2007 and 2008.
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