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-   -   Ukraine War Thread Part 2 (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/652441-ukraine-war-thread-part-2-a.html)

sycamore 16th April 2024 18:34

Those `ships` are actually` FISHING BOATS`/`trawlers`,as the Russian spy ships are called....

DogTailRed2 16th April 2024 19:09


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11636605)

https://i.redd.it/f9s1vakdfbj71.jpg

henra 16th April 2024 22:20


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11636233)
But here's what you Euros could do.
Assume Trump wins. (I don't think he will, but can you afford to plan for something other than worst case?)
Make your plans according to his worst rhetoric coming true.
There's a planning assumption that may get some people off of their butts and produce results.

Hmmm, I don't think we will be able to produce hundreds of ICBM carrier systems and the related 1000+ nuclear warheads within the next five years even if we try.

Lonewolf_50 17th April 2024 02:59

That isn't the point nor the requirement. The French and Brits have enough nukes between them to tide you over.
Either get working or get used to losing.

Beamr 17th April 2024 05:16

Apparently it has been a busy night for Ukrainian Armed Forces.
The Dzhankoi AFB in Crimea, used by Russian Air Force, has been hit, and some sources claim the ammunition warhouse has ceased to exist along with Zirkon hypersonic missiles and other goods.
High hopes that some airframes went with it.

Whatever it was, it went with a bang.



ORAC 17th April 2024 07:50

Reference the House vote on aid for Ukraine…. 🤕

This is a political trap being laid by @SpeakerJohnson. He wants military aid passed for Israel and NOT for Ukraine.

First the House will pass separate bills. Then these new bills have to go back to the Senate to be voted on again.

Senate Republicans will then pass the House version of aid to Israel, but then filibuster the stand alone Ukraine aid bill. If Ukraine aid can't get 60 votes to end debate in the Senate, then it is dead.

The last vote for aid to Ukraine (with aid to Israel) already had 30 Senators vote against it. If Donald Trump can call and threaten 10 more Republican Senators and twist their arm to join a filibuster, then a stand alone aid bill to Ukraine will never pass.

Or... if Senate Republicans manage to amend a single thing in the bill, it would have to go back to the House to be voted on again and Speaker Johnson could just never allow a vote on the amended version of the bill kicked back to him. Senate Republicans of course would amend nothing in the Israel bill to make sure it doesn't need another vote in the House.

Biden will only get the Israel aid package sent to his desk and then have to decide if he vetoes it or not without Ukraine aid (spoilers - he won't veto it).

​​​​​​​Likewise, doing all this will take additional weeks or months as Senate Republicans will do everything procedurally possible to waste more time to help Russia.

If Speaker Johnson actually wanted aid to pass, he would just schedule an up or down vote on the Senate Bill.

NutLoose 17th April 2024 08:14

We’ve already said and discussed that. That is why it needs to be a combined package.



​​​​​​…

ORAC 17th April 2024 08:38

https://www.politico.eu/article/midd...eeting-summit/

EU fiddles on Middle East as Ukraine burns

https://www.politico.eu/article/why-...ng-russia-war/

Ukraine is heading for defeat

NutLoose 17th April 2024 10:02

it appears there has been a fire in Moscow at possibly the only plant producing misssiles for the S-300 and S-400 systems



A fire has occurred at the Avangard factory in Moscow. The factory is part of the Joint Stock Company Concern of Air and Space Defense Almaz-Antey, the Telegram channel Astra reports.

According to preliminary data, the fire has spread over an area of 50 square meters. However, firefighters who arrived to assist were able to localize it.

The cause of the fire and whether there are any casualties is currently unknown.

The Moscow Machine-Building Plant Avangard is part of the joint-stock company Concern for Air and Space Defense Almaz-Antey. This enterprise manufactures ammunition for the S-300 and S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems.

The factory's website states that it is the only one in Russia producing these missiles. According to data from 2017, the factory employed 2,500 workers.

Earlier, it was reported that a large fire occurred at the machine-building plant Uralmash in Yekaterinburg, Russia. The fire spread over an area of several thousand square meters.

In February, there was a fire at the MiG factory in Moscow, which is involved in the complete servicing - from design to repair - of the Kinzhal fighter-carriers, which participate in strikes against Ukraine.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....9f3a622846.png


Russia's only S-300 ammunition factory caught fire in Moscow (msn.com)

jolihokistix 17th April 2024 10:55

So that's a fifteen by thirty-foot patch...

NutLoose 17th April 2024 11:37

Agreed, but it depends if that patch was crucial to the whole operation.

Meanwhile in Russia, Ukraine has hit a factory in Kazan, where Russia manufactures and repairs Tu-22M and Tu-160M ​​bombers.


NutLoose 17th April 2024 11:38

They have destroyed another Russian Mi-8


Russia: Ukraine's GUR military intelligence destroyed a Russian Mi-8 helicopter at Kryazh military airfield in Samara, 1000 km from Ukraine

NutLoose 17th April 2024 11:40

This reminds me of David Bowies Major Tom.... Here we're sitting in a tin can.... Note the jammer pack on the top.


NutLoose 17th April 2024 11:49

More on the Crimea airfield hit. Though not mentioning aircraft damaged, the casualties may be important as they will posssibly hard to replace pilots and technicians.


AFU conducts MASSIVE ATACMS Block 1 (cluster munition) strike on the Russian airfield in Dzhankoi, Crimea NOTE:

- The AFU previously stated that "now that the Black Sea is clear of the Russian Navy, we will focus on removing their airfields." - Based on images of secondary explosions, I am speculating that the S-400 battery at the airfield, along with other targets, may have been hit in the strike.

- See below current NASA FIRMS image. Last night, there were multiple explosions at the Russian airfield in #Dzhankoi, occupied Crimea, which is in Ukraine. Russian TG Channel Rybar: «The raid was carried out in two waves. The first strike involved seven missiles, apparently with cluster warheads, and the second used at least five . Some damaged equipment at the airfield, and some damaged one of the buildings.»

The Russian 39th helicopter regiment, Air Defense Forces of the Southern Military District (S-400 SAM Battery), 3 Aviation Squadrons and helicopters of the FSB border service are based there. Crimean Wind:

«According to our sources, about 30 Russian servicemen were killed and about 80 were wounded at the airfield in Dzhankoi. Due to the lack of sufficient beds in the Dzhankoi hospital, the wounded are transported by helicopter to Sevastopol for placement in the 1472 VMKG.»

Video images (reported to be from the attack) show multiple secondary explosions of what appear to be large missiles.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....fb05abb6d8.png


NutLoose 17th April 2024 11:54

Yup, they clobbered the air defence big time.




https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....114d07e4f7.jpg

NutLoose 17th April 2024 12:00

And then you are going to give this a guy a gun, surprised they have any officers left after that.


NutLoose 17th April 2024 12:07

Another Aircraft strike from late last year I do not think we have seen before.


NutLoose 17th April 2024 12:13

Needing more armour for the scrapyard in Ukraine? Russia recalling armour from the occupied Nagorno-Karabakh in Azerbaijan


NutLoose 17th April 2024 12:20

More on the airfield hit.


The Telegram channel of the "ZSU-War" released a picture of a destroyed Russian S-400 air defense unit.

The channel reports that the first wave of missiles destroyed the S-400 position.

In detail, 3 launcher and the radar unit was destroyed, leaving the base defenseless against further missiles.

The 2nd wave destroyed the repair and maintenance hub of that airbase.

Secondary explosions did their part in further compromising the Russian base in the occupied peninsula.

No information regarding the status of the choppers in that base, yet.

Satellite pics should deliver the final confirmation of the extent of the destruction, which must be huge judging from the videos we have seen so far.

henra 17th April 2024 19:19


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11637056)
That isn't the point nor the requirement. The French and Brits have enough nukes between them to tide you over.

No they don't. There will be remains of Russia left after FR+UK are finished. Inversely not. MAD means exactly that. Conventionally Europe mainly needs to increase Ammo. But the problem is that most European Countries might refrain from defending the Baltics or Poland for fear of receiving a Nuke on their capital without the ability or assurance of a similar counter strike on Moscow or St- Pete. All the ammo or tanks in the world amount to nothing if they are not used for fear of extinction without ability to counter. What do you think why Scholz is draggig his feet so much. Berlin is in striking distance of a tactical nuke on a ballistic Iskander or Kinzhal fired from Kaliningrad. With little means to defend against. And nothing to retaliate. What would stop good ol' Vlad from nuking Berlin? The following sanctions? His humanity? His good manors? What else?


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