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-   -   Ukraine War Thread Part 2 (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/652441-ukraine-war-thread-part-2-a.html)

NutLoose 18th April 2024 14:15

Send them, send them all.


meleagertoo 18th April 2024 14:20

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6cef241caf.jpg[/QUOTE]
Damn right this reeks. Of fake news and disinformation. It is so fatuous it surely cannot possibly be true, even of MTG.
Same applies to the alleged "plant" making "missile fuel".
The only plant is anyone who imagines missile fuel gets made in derelict warehouses, or that a minor fire like that would do any significant damage at all.
Sadly these pages contain ever-increasing amounts of blatant fakery and propaganda, even to Putinesque levels of ludicrousness like the above.

April 1 was a fortnight ago...

I'll only even begin to believe the MTG allegations if there is a link to a credible US Governmental source for it, otherwise I call "Fake News".

NutLoose 18th April 2024 14:34

:E........


henra 18th April 2024 14:43


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11638031)
Little means? THAAD/Patriot TBMD. Germany was in on the few projects I was working on back in the 90's involving TBMD / NATO AACS and such. (And I am sure they were party to its successors).
Not sure what German posture is currently, so I am out of date.

THAAD sadly got into troubled water and was suspended and never resumed. So it would be on Patriot to catch all incoming. With the number of systems Germany has it has to decide what to defend. Some will be needed for Buechel, some for the most important military facilities. That won't leave too many for protecting Berlin. 5 - 10 Nuclear Kinzhals + 5 - 10 Iskander would probably do the job of wiping out Berlin since chances are one of those would get through. Warning time would be ~4 minutes from launch.

While I can see you concerns as regards how the world looks from Schotz's point of view, Ballistic Missile Defense exists.
As to the hypersonic missiles, etc, yeah, that's a new threat class. Shoot the archer...
The problem with Ballistic Missile Defense against nukes ist that even if you miss a single one the consequences for a city like Berlin would be catastrophic. With hundreds of thousands to millions of Deaths.

Less Hair 18th April 2024 14:50

Everybody is targeted by submarine based nukes anyway. I don't think the German public is especially scared of Russia's nukes right now. It still makes you wonder why they based new short range nuke missiles at Kaliningrad.

henra 18th April 2024 15:33


Originally Posted by Less Hair (Post 11638080)
Everybody is targeted by submarine based nukes anyway. I don't think the German public is especially scared of Russia's nukes right now. It still makes you wonder why they based new short range nuke missiles at Kaliningrad.

Strategic ICBMs would be one escalation level too high. Single digit quantity 'tactical' Nuclear SRBM on a Non- Nuke State could be the ticket to getting away with eliminating a Country without severe consequences especially if correspnding signals are sent e.g. by a colurful (re-) aspiring guy.

NutLoose 18th April 2024 15:42


meleagertoo;11638065

And as for MTG
Damn right this reeks. Of fake news and disinformation.
Same applies to the alleged "plant" making "missile fuel".
The only plant is anyone who imagines missile fuel gets made in derelict warehouses, or that a minor fire like that would do any significant damage at all.
Sadly these pages contain ever-increasing amounts of blatant fakery and propaganda, even to Putinesque levels of ludicrousness like the above.

For what its worth the blast would have taken out the windows of the building and the poster is one of the more credible on Twitter.

His credentials


Ukrainian patriot. Advisor to Internal Affairs Minister (2021-2023). Institute of the Future founder
And as for MTG and her stupidity, Is the Washington Examiner enough proof for you?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...aine-vote-aid/

Or the Daily Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/...ys-republican/

henra 18th April 2024 15:50


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11638105)
And as for MTG and her stupidity, Is the Washington Examiner enough proof for you?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...aine-vote-aid/

Maybe it's time to make a full background check if she isn't a genuine Russian spy.

NutLoose 18th April 2024 15:57

She would probably fail the intelligence test.

gsky 18th April 2024 16:07

If this is the belief of MTG then the natural thing for her to do is go to Russia and volunteer to join their forces fighting in Ukraine.

meleagertoo 18th April 2024 16:53

If the Caspian Sea exodus is true then not many significant Black Sea units can do it with a published depth available of 3.7m and probably less in reality

The Kilos, Grishas, Krivaks, Steregushkiy, Admiral Grogorovichs, Aligators and the fleet ilers certainly can't, the Ropuchas would be marginal with a 3.6m draft.
Not much of significance left but coastal missile boats and small landing/patrol craft.

Guido1977 18th April 2024 19:00


Originally Posted by meleagertoo (Post 11638065)
I'll only even begin to believe the MTG allegations if there is a link to a credible US Governmental source for it, otherwise I call "Fake News".

It is just one simple google search away try "greene (ga)" and "prohibits funding until ukraine closes all bio-laboratories" (with quotes!).
Find: rules. house. gov/bill/118/hr-8035
(A "credible US Governmental source" may sound oxymoronic to MTG.)

mfg

(My first post - I'm not allowed to post links.)

Lonewolf_50 18th April 2024 19:01


Originally Posted by henra (Post 11638077)
THAAD sadly got into troubled water and was suspended and never resumed. So it would be on Patriot to catch all incoming. With the number of systems Germany has it has to decide what to defend. Some will be needed for Buechel, some for the most important military facilities. That won't leave too many for protecting Berlin.
5 - 10 Nuclear Kinzhals + 5 - 10 Iskander would probably do the job of wiping out Berlin since chances are one of those would get through. Warning time would be ~4 minutes from launch.

Got it. As I understand it, Japan is working out how to sell Patriots under license. Might want to sign up for a few more ...

The problem with Ballistic Missile Defense against nukes ist that even if you miss a single one the consequences for a city like Berlin would be catastrophic. With hundreds of thousands to millions of Deaths.
True enough. Most of the scenarios we ran were chem/bio/conventional war head based. Thanks for the elaboration. :ok:

Originally Posted by henra (Post 11638101)
Strategic ICBMs would be one escalation level too high. Single digit quantity 'tactical' Nuclear SRBM on a Non- Nuke State could be the ticket to getting away with eliminating a Country without severe consequences especially if corresponding signals are sent e.g. by a colourful (re-) aspiring guy.

FWIW, I think that the Germans are / were tied into some sharing on the US EW network a while back, but it's been so many years I can't say how that fits current events.

nonsense 19th April 2024 02:04


Originally Posted by DuncanDoenitz (Post 11638022)
Probably Volga-Don Canal, and the lower stretches of the namesake rivers. Google the maximum draught/beam etc to determine which of their (surviving) fleet can navigate the waterway.

Maximum length 141 m (463 ft)
Maximum beam 16.8 m (55 ft)
Maximum draft 3.6 m (12 ft)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga%E2%80%93Don_Canal

ETOPS 19th April 2024 07:39

Russian Tu22 shot down…


konstantin 19th April 2024 10:49

Nope, it was a "technical malfunction"...
;)

https://sputnikglobe.com/20240419/te...118006757.html

Beamr 19th April 2024 10:55

This is efficient, if it really does what the label says. 3000 square meters in 30min and the mines are mapped with GPS coordinates.
Impressive.



Spunky Monkey 19th April 2024 11:08


Originally Posted by ETOPS (Post 11638475)


Well that Backfired...


I'll get my coat...


It would appear from the socials that The Rusks shot down their own aircraft, again!

konstantin 19th April 2024 11:14

Ukraine are claiming a long range S200 shootdown, the aircraft subsequently travelling a fair way east before succumbing... to, ahem, an engine problem, according to one Russian report...
:hmm:

Pali 19th April 2024 12:46

Slovaks indignant with stance of Fico's government decided to finance ammunition for Ukraine through crowdfunding. Part of the campaign is a 99 years old veteran and Holocaust survivor who fought against Nazi Germany during Slovak National Uprising. He said: "We have to drive Putin out of Ukraine. We have to defeat him. I lived through the Second World War. I fought in it. I can tell you there was no point negotiating with Hitler and there is no point negotiating with Putin."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68843542

In four days we collected more than 2 million euros. We want to gain our honour back somehow.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2ff777b8cc.jpg

https://www.municiapreukrajinu.sk/

PS: Fico during meeting with Ukrainian PM told behind the closed doors that Slovakia will support Ukraine in joining EU, Slovakia considers Russian aggression illegal and his rhetoric is rather meant for his electorate.

I can't comment on all this because I would be banned due my language... :mad:


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