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-   -   Ukraine War Thread Part 2 (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/652441-ukraine-war-thread-part-2-a.html)

NutLoose 15th April 2024 11:37

It looks like some Russian backwater now has a self flushing outhouse.... shame if you live downstream.


More





:sad: BEWARE dead body shown



DogTailRed2 15th April 2024 11:54


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11635849)

The bottom one looks like a modern day Butterfly bomb.

NutLoose 15th April 2024 11:59

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d6b0fde576.jpg

NutLoose 15th April 2024 12:13

Ok several links looking at mines and also bomblets etc, including drones. Bear with me as they are interesting.






Preparations to drop the bridges in 2022



back to the front line






NutLoose 15th April 2024 12:22

More on the mines in use etc





Ukrainian Drones again




North Korea's finest


More drones


NutLoose 15th April 2024 12:28

I do hope you find all of those interesting, there are more I can post, including jammers, if people would like to see them.

And now a tip for the Ukrainian EOD team, use a longer fuse next time.


Luc Lion 15th April 2024 12:33


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11635851)
Ukrainian school kids in the occupied territories, spot the happy kid..
https://twitter.com/LvivJournal/stat...09660828651814

There is one smiling happy face though...

in a frame on the wall.

NutLoose 15th April 2024 12:48

An update on what was a dam I mentioned above.





and what is looking like getting flooded?

In accordance with Ukrainian sources, the power that holds a big place on this context is “Kurganmashzavod”. This institution prides itself on being the one producer of recent fight autos for infantry and touchdown forces in Russia. The manufacturing line right here contains all BMP-3 and BMD-4 models, along with the modernization of BMP-2 models fitted with “Berezhok” fight modules. Different armored autos corresponding to “Rakushka” BTR-MD and the “Octopus” are additionally produced right here.

Flooding forecasts pinpoint this location as being inside the 11-12 meter mark. Even inside Russia, exact predictions in regards to the flood ranges in Kurgan are withheld, offering solely obscure indications of above 11 meters or a spread between 9-14 meters.
https://www.specialforcesnews.com/ru...of-submersion/


Lonewolf_50 15th April 2024 14:03


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11633480)
How about it US of A, pulling your weight on support to Ukraine? Position: 19th.
TOP7 : all are Baltic sea countries + Norway.

Total bilateral aid commitments to Ukraine as a percentage of 2021 donor country gross domestic product (GDP) between January 24, 2022 and January 15, 2024, by country

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-of-donor-gdp/

What a crock of Myopia.
The US has security interests all over the globe. Ukraine is one of many. You are looking at this through a paper towel role tube.
FFS, it's a European Security Problem, all of you lot - In Europe _ ought to be leaning ihard into this, and not whinging to the US to do your work for you.
Not to mention a year or so of foot dragging by France and Germany before they unscrewed themselves.

W began raising this issue back in 2006.
Obama nagged you lot about it.
Trump nagged you about it.

Your collective response? Hide your heads in the sand and ignore it for a decade and a half.
THere you sit, bent over and Putin rogers you in your ostrichy bum.
And now you claim that it's America's problem?
No. The security leaches are simply living with the consequences of two decades of their own policy decisions and DELIBERATE foot dragging by major "powers" like France and Germany (refusing to let certain weapons be moved, blah blah blah) when the crisis started.

This Is All Your Fault All of you. You showed Purtin how weak you are, collectively, and he took advantage of it.

Less Hair 15th April 2024 14:14

Russia attacking outside countries and claiming to want more is a global security issue.

Beamr 15th April 2024 14:28


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11635993)
What a crock of Myopia.
The US has security interests all over the globe. Ukraine is one of many. You are looking at this through a paper towel role tube.
FFS, it's a European Security Problem, all of you lot - In Europe _ ought to be leaning ihard into this, and not whinging to the US to do your work for you.
Not to mention a year or so of foot dragging by France and Germany before they unscrewed themselves.

W began raising this issue back in 2006.
Obama nagged you lot about it.
Trump nagged you about it.

Your collective response? Hide your heads in the sand and ignore it for a decade and a half.
THere you sit, bent over and Putin rogers you in your ostrichy bum.
And now you claim that it's America's problem?
No. The security leaches are simply living with the consequences of two decades of their own policy decisions and DELIBERATE foot dragging by major "powers" like France and Germany (refusing to let certain weapons be moved, blah blah blah) when the crisis started.

This Is All Your Fault All of you. You showed Purtin how weak you are, collectively, and he took advantage of it.

First: especially northern European countries have been pulling their weight.
Second: the USofA played the "be on our side or against us" card after 9/11, and plenty of countries joined you in your problem. Are you supposing that it doesn't work the other way round?
Third: the Budapest memorandum
Fourth: what Less hair said.

Lonewolf_50 15th April 2024 15:04


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11636017)
First: especially northern European countries have been pulling their weight.

Indeed, and good job in so doing, and It Is In Their Neighborhood. Self interest is a powerful motivator.
They don't have to be concerned with Taiwan nor the Entire Middle East. You are comparing oranges to wing nuts.

Second: the USofA played the "be on our side or against us" card after 9/11,
There we go with the gratuitous Yank Bashing, right on schedule. I have been reading for about two decades the never ending whinge by Europeans (as often as not in Economist or various Frenchrags) on the Americans spending too much on defense and not on health/whatever. All of a sudden, we aren't spending too much ... hypocrites, the lot of you.
FWIW: I personally don't disagree about the Budapest Memorandum, of which Russia was a guarantor of, but to be very clear NOBODY stood up and was counted in 2014 when that was breached by Russia. Budapest became a dead letter by the end of 2015, when it was obvious that Ukraine's "guarantees" from: Russia, US, France, UK, and China for their giving up their nukes was not what they thought it was.

So Russia broke the deal and got to pay the price of .. sanctions, which have limited impact, and Europe kept buying Russian gas, business as usual.
Also, lest you forget: Ukraine does NOT have Article V guarantees.
No, it's your fault. Europe.
You set the conditions that provided Vlad the opening he was looking for...why? Because the money was too good.

For Less Hair:
Where were you lot in 2014?
Nowhere.
You tell me it's a "global security issue" but the lot of you sat on your hands.
You showed Putin your arse and he's buggering you in it.
Maybe we ought to send you some Petroleum Jelly ...

The only reason this war is still a going concern is that Ukraine surprised the lot of you and fought back.
And they are stil fighting back.

I am still disappointed at Mr BIden for not being able to, despite months of attempts, prevent the tanks from rolling in 2022 ... but it appears that he simply lacked the leverage, or maybe the credibility, to make Vlad think again about trying to pull this off. And I don't think it helped that around the time of the Winter Olympics, Mr Xi apparently assured Vlad that China had his back. Lacking that, I don't think Vlad would have rolled.

It might have taken a Bush41/Baker team to have been successful, hard to say, as it's all water under the bridge.

On the bright side, plenty of weapons systems are being op tested or validated, and some new developments are in the offing ... :p

West Coast 15th April 2024 15:11


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11635831)
That point was indeed what I was actually making.

My mis-read then. We are then in agreement that the US should save its blood and treasure from involvement in another protracted war.

melmothtw 15th April 2024 15:19


The US has security interests all over the globe.
It's almost as if the US should have a higher GDP of defence spending than most European nations, given its global commitments.


THere you sit, bent over and Putin rogers you in your ostrichy bum.
Great way to describe the Republican Party and its MAGA adherents right now.


​​​​​​​And now you claim that it's America's problem?
Afghanistan and Iraq weren't Europe's problem, but still.


​​​​​​​This Is All Your Fault All of you. You showed Purtin how weak you are, collectively, and he took advantage of it.
Wouldn't argue with this, except to add that the US hadn't really shown itself to be a pillar of fortitude leading up to the invasion of Ukraine, and isn't doing so now.

Lonewolf_50 15th April 2024 15:32


Originally Posted by melmothtw (Post 11636060)
Wouldn't argue with this, except to add that the US hadn't really shown itself to be a pillar of fortitude leading up to the invasion of Ukraine, and isn't doing so now.

Mr Obama also bent over and played ostrich in 2014, so no glory there.
He had warned you all that he was pivoting to Asia.
Apparently nobody was listening. (Anymore than Lavrov listened about red lines in Syria ..)

I guess you forget how strong the "we need to STOP being the world's policeman" sentiment was in the US once the wall fell.
During the 90's, there was a lot of objection to going out with altruism as a purpose (rather than a defined US security interest) all over the world, and then sticking band aids on open wonds. We initially stayed out of Bosnia 91-95 for good reason: it was a European Security Problem. (Yes, we had people there with the UN, and that stopped very little from going wrong).
The Somalia debacle informed that sentiment's regrowth. You might want to revisit the case of Army Specialist Michael New.
That particular political theme is as old as the early 20th century isolationist platform that torpedoed Wilson's grand vision.
It's not a new theme in American politics.
Hilariously, Cheney and Rumsfeld tried to pander to that sentiment with their 'we don't do nation building" lines for both Afghanistan and Iraq -and that of course did not work out and they were blowing smoke out of their collective arses.

If the re-emergence of that theme in American politics took you by surprise, that's on you. Trump was making noises like that during his term, and he was all for working out a deal with the Taliban for Americans to leave Afghanistan before he left office.

Beamr 15th April 2024 15:42

Russia is on our backyard yes. It is on the US backyard as well. A neighboring country to the US to be exact. Why is it that a murderous, imperialistic neighboring country doesn't seem to bother you?

Lest we forget that during the first two decades of this millenium the US also bought Russian oil, on average 147 thousand barrels per day, every day, for two decades.

What comes to NATO and article V: I have not brought that up. No one has suggested that Ukraine should be assisted due to NATO articles. What comes to the European support to Ukraine: the defence spending within NATO target is not equal to support to Ukraine. Eg Estonia is over the 2% target but they are giving even more to Ukraine, 3,6% to be exact. So many countries are totalling way above the NATO threshold if both numbers are accounted. But that is not relevant of course when blaming other countries for not exceeding the 2% mark and stating that Europe is not doing anything for Ukraine.

Finally: I am not saying the US hasn't done anything. What I am saying is that the US could easily do so much more.

The small countries are doing what they can already, though keeping in mind that if Ukraine falls the small ones are the next in line.

Lonewolf_50 15th April 2024 15:49


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11636073)
Russia is on our backyard yes. It is on the US backyard as well. A neighboring country to the US to be exact. Why is it that a murderous, imperialistic neighboring country doesn't seem to bother you?

You really think they will try to take Alaska? WTF have you been smoking?

What comes to NATO and article V: I have not brought that up. No one has suggested that Ukraine should be assisted due to NATO articles.
That's right. But you brought up other allies in NATO aiding us. That's on you.

What I am saying is that the US could easily do so much more.
We've already coughed up Tens of Billions of Dollars in aid, and also offered up other stuff that you may or may not be aware of.
We have other priorities also.


melmothtw 15th April 2024 16:08


Russia is on our backyard yes. It is on the US backyard as well. A neighboring country to the US to be exact. Why is it that a murderous, imperialistic neighboring country doesn't seem to bother you?
Yes, when considering the threat from Russia an awful lot of Americans tend to forget that the earth is a globe and not flat as you see it on a map.

FUMR 15th April 2024 16:09


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11636079)
You really think they will try to take Alaska?

It might just be their first step before a Special Mission further south! :}

Beamr 15th April 2024 16:10


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11636079)
You really think they will try to take Alaska? WTF have you been smoking?

That's right. But you brought up other allies in NATO aiding us. That's on you.
What I am saying is that the US could easily do so much more.
We've already coughed up Tens of Billions of Dollars in aid, and also offered up other stuff that you may or may not be aware of.
We have other priorities also.

You are right, a murderous, imperialistic madman would just push the button and send the nukes. My bad.
Now that the Kremlin madman is definately not going to invade Alaska, the US can certainly send the ex-aggressor F16's to Ukraine instead of making them an interceptor squadron, n'est ce pas?

I did not say that NATO allies came to assist the US. I said that plenty of countries joined.
I have no idea why you are so fixed to the NATO theme.


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