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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

Wokkafans 22nd Mar 2023 22:57

A lot of that looks like cooked off cases, perhaps from a burnt out vehicle?

GlobalNav 22nd Mar 2023 23:11


Originally Posted by uxb99 (Post 11406757)
Is close escort a valid tactic on the modern battlefield? WW2 close escort was seen as relatively ineffective. Escorts preferring to be way out in front to counter any threat rising to meet the bombers.
Of course a lot has changed since then.

it’s not a tactical formation, but then it’s not a tactical mission.

NutLoose 22nd Mar 2023 23:17

It appears something was still burning in Sevastopol the morning after the attack..


It also appears Ukraine has newer sleeker version of their maritime drone.

​​​​​​​


meleagertoo 22nd Mar 2023 23:17


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11406890)
One field!

Hey, steady on! How big was the field? A hectare or a whole county?
Both sides are spewing propaganda remember - it isn't wise to swallow any of it without due and cautious thought...

NutLoose 23rd Mar 2023 00:01

A Russian success… leaving Kherson :D

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NutLoose 23rd Mar 2023 01:06

He’s at it again, ascending to heaven, more like it his ass ending as a silhouette burnt onto the wall of his studio wall post strike..

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jolihokistix 23rd Mar 2023 01:18

Maybe Putin needs irresponsible people like this in order for him to look 'good' against.

Winemaker 23rd Mar 2023 02:58


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11406976)
He’s at it again, ascending to heaven, more like it his ass ending as a silhouette burnt onto the wall of his studio wall post strike..



​​​​​​​https://twitter.com/TheKremlinYap/st...C23ZXr5rUtAAAA

I have to ask, but am sure I know the answer, is this an official Russkie TV channel? Are these people insane? Do real Russians believe this stuff? Ah, Solzhenitsyn's liar quote comes to mind. It's amazing how the world's view of Russia has changed in a year.

GlobalNav 23rd Mar 2023 04:04


Originally Posted by Winemaker (Post 11407009)
I have to ask, but am sure I know the answer, is this an official Russkie TV channel? Are these people insane? Do real Russians believe this stuff? Ah, Solzhenitsyn's liar quote comes to mind. It's amazing how the world's view of Russia has changed in a year.

As crazy as it sounds to an outsider, it is indeed likely that many Russians believe the propaganda. In addition to the threats which make expressions of disbelief risky, it’s simply easier to go along and get along. Western democracy has all too recent examples of a majority of the American electorate believing blatant lies from the highest government level and the pundits of his once favorite propaganda network. So how can we expect better in Russia? The solution(s) to the world’s problems are clearly not political.

ORAC 23rd Mar 2023 07:37

https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon...older-version/

US to fast-track Abrams tanks for Ukraine by choosing older version

WASHINGTON ― The Pentagon announced it will speed up its delivery of Patriot missiles and M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, opting to send a refurbished older model that can be ready faster and reach Ukrainian troops fighting Russia’s invasion force by this fall.

The original plan was to send Ukraine 31 of the newer M1A2 Abrams, which could have taken a year or two to build and ship. But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has approved new plans to send the older M1A1 version from Army stocks, which will be easier for Ukrainian forces to learn to use and maintain as they fight Russia’s invasion.

“DoD, in close coordination with Ukraine, made the decision to buy the M1A1 variant which will enable us to significantly expedite delivery timelines, and deliver this important capability to Ukraine by the fall of this year,” said the Pentagon’s press secretary, Brig. Gen. Patrick Ryder.

The U.S. will refurbish excess M1 hulls and ship them as the M1A1 SA variant, outfitting the 70-ton behemoths with 120mm cannons and 50-caliber machine guns.

Poland in January signed a contract for 250 M1A2 Abrams SEPv3 tanks; U.S. Defense Department officials could not immediately say how they planned to juggle the Ukraine purchase and foreign military sales…..

fdr 23rd Mar 2023 08:15


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11022356)
Chechnya. Interesting.

Ah, for Racedo's comment, at the time, Crimea was a part of Ukraine, had been since Feb of 54. It had no autonomy, and had not for more than a hundred years.

Ukraine had every right to be independent, it was in the original USSR charter and again in the agreements of the breakup of the USSR. So did Chechnya, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia etc. Most elected to do so, under the agreement of Alma Ata.
Crimea was a part of Ukraine by then.

They could be independent, but recall that Russia conducted a genocide of the inhabitants, there is as much right to Turkey there as any other inhabitant at this time.


Gargleblaster 23rd Mar 2023 08:38

Forgive me a simple question, why was the US planning to build new tanks for Ukraine ? The US must have thousands in stock, and the likelihood of suddenly needing them must be minimal. I don't think neither Mexico nor Canada are likely to invade, or the US invading these countries any time soon ! Although, should Trump get reelected we can't know what's going to happen...

Tartiflette Fan 23rd Mar 2023 09:56


Originally Posted by Gargleblaster (Post 11407097)
Forgive me a simple question, why was the US planning to build new tanks for Ukraine ? The US must have thousands in stock, and the likelihood of suddenly needing them must be minimal. I don't think neither Mexico nor Canada are likely to invade, or the US invading these countries any time soon ! Although, should Trump get reelected we can't know what's going to happen...

I believe that the tanks going to Ukraine were going to be supplied without their classified armour, and it was presumably thought more sensible to build new without the classified components rather than go to the trouble of stripping existing units. No idea why there has been a re-think. It does surprise me though, because I had the impression that Biden's assent to send tanks was primarily a sop to Scholz who said he would only send Leo's if the USA sent M1's: what was important was the headline announcement of sending them, not the small-print detail of when they would arrive.

NutLoose 23rd Mar 2023 10:39

New footage showing a marine drone being destroyed in Sevastopol. Beached on a boom? I have read that the ferry service has been cancelled, if indeed it did detonate on the boom, possibility that the harbour now has a damaged boom preventing the ferries from sailing?





https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-sevastopol-attacked-by-drones-from-sea-and-air

..

Beamr 23rd Mar 2023 10:45


Originally Posted by fdr (Post 11407082)
Ah, for Racedo's comment, at the time, Crimea was a part of Ukraine, had been since Feb of 54. It had no autonomy, and had not for more than a hundred years.

Ukraine had every right to be independent, it was in the original USSR charter and again in the agreements of the breakup of the USSR. So did Chechnya, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia etc. Most elected to do so, under the agreement of Alma Ata.
Crimea was a part of Ukraine by then.

They could be independent, but recall that Russia conducted a genocide of the inhabitants, there is as much right to Turkey there as any other inhabitant at this time.

Yes, my comment was to point out to Racedo that Russia started a war against a breakaway region that sought independence. Twice, actually.

NutLoose 23rd Mar 2023 10:57

:)


FUMR 23rd Mar 2023 11:49


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11407193)

To be honest, I am very doubtful that it was Putin visiting!

ORAC 23rd Mar 2023 11:54


Forgive me a simple question, why was the US planning to build new tanks for Ukraine ?
Another reason is that it’s much easier to get new builds through Congress.

For at least a decade the army hasn’t wanted any more Abrams and don’t ask for any in their budget - and every year Congress adds another buy to keep the production line going.

The army preference is that the line should be kept going with FMS orders, as with the Polish order, so ordering more for Ukraine would have extended the production line without any more for the army.

https://www.npr.org/2012/07/25/15725...-says-no-tanks
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...esnt-want.html

​​​​​​​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lima_A...nk_Plant#2010s




Wokkafans 23rd Mar 2023 12:12

Another careless smoker.


fdr 23rd Mar 2023 12:24


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11407184)
Yes, my comment was to point out to Racedo that Russia started a war against a breakaway region that sought independence. Twice, actually.

Chechnya-Ingush had every right to self govern IIRC... I may be wrong, but every state and republic under the USSRs charter, Article 72 had the right of choice to leave the USSR freely, that was 72 different republics and states. That included Georgia etc. In 1991, the Alma Ata protocol was not binding on the parties that refused to be a party, that still had every right to leave the union, and most did before Russia finally got a constitution in order years later. In the meantime, some states, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia refused to sign the Alma Ata Protocols as they had been illegally annexed by the USSR in 1940. They were brave then as now. Chechnya as well as Georgia had every right to walk out, they did not sign any binding agreement with Russia to be one of Yeltsins lackeys.


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