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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

NutLoose 22nd Mar 2023 09:02

Emergency ration drop :D

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Tartiflette Fan 22nd Mar 2023 09:40


Originally Posted by fdr (Post 11406281)
Sorry for being so obtuse, so, simply put, please explain on what factual basis that you would consider that Russia has shown competency in protecting the MSR and as you have specifically indicated, the rail line going through an obvious choke point?

A look at recent high resolution imagery doesn't indicate spur lines, parallel main rail going over multiple new bridges to south east Kherson oblast from criminally occupied Crimea.
Hoping that this is less opaque. :}

It is less opaque, but may well have missed its target :}. As Winemaker said in his post 15593, I think you have confused my post and sfojimbo's

Spunky Monkey 22nd Mar 2023 09:43

Could the reason for the Kerch Bridge not being dropped again, nor the railway junction being totally destroyed is because it is counter productive.
There are a lot of Ukrainians in Crimea who are pro-Russian, but are sitting on the fence because the Rusks are fcukin things up for themselves without any help from the Ukrainians.
Start dropping the bridges again and those peoples lives become pretty miserable. It could start hardening sentiment against the Ukrainians.

In addition if there is a big push through Kherson or Melitopol into Crimea, then there is the risk of telegraphing your intentions before you start the offensive.
It looks like the Russians haven't got a great amount of kit to resupply an area as the front line is so large, so like the build up to D-Day keep the enemy guessing where you are going to strike.

With Chally, Leopard, Bradleys etc, the new Armoured Division of Ukraine has the ability to pick its next battle and timing, ready to strike en-masse deep into Russian occupied lands.
The Russians have decided to ignore this and throw more troops into Bakhmut and Vulhedar, the obvious tactic of trying to get a win for their despotic dictator.

ACW342 22nd Mar 2023 10:00

Jake and British friend, with awacs
 
Lots of Electronic interest around Konigsberg (AKA Kaliningrad) this morning (22/03/23) 2x Rivet joint, european AWACS, joint STARS and a Swede showing interest as well.

A342

golfbananajam 22nd Mar 2023 10:06


Originally Posted by fdr (Post 11406207)
That assumes the Russians had any interest in the term "logistics" or "preparation". Feb 24 2022 had Vlads invaders inside another country without the troops being told they were at war... seems assuming that Vlad is a master strategist might be overstating his skill at RISK.

A leader who messes up as badly as Putin has normally doesn't get to avoid the shallow ditch, jerry can and match retirement plan. In Vlads case, an opportunistic open upper floor window would be poetic, but the back ramp of a IL-76 carrying #200's would at least achieve terminal velocity, that velocity that Vlad is driving the Russian Federation towards dismemberment as he depletes the armed forces that have kept the peripheral vassal states within the sphere of Vlads Evil empire.

An open office window may not help

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3dfd6888a1.jpg
Putin's office is behind one of these windows

but a trip to his old office might.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....88c0d184a4.jpg
The old KGB building

Tartiflette Fan 22nd Mar 2023 10:09


Originally Posted by Uberteknik (Post 11406408)
I understand your desire for plain English without frills and no criticism to your post is meant.

Personally, I find the satire introduces a refreshing relief and welcome variety to a very serious and otherwise dry discussion.

It's a very British cultural theme in the greatest tradition of dark humour from Python to Blackadder to Spitting Image - even if not quite in the same league.

Thank you, however I don't feel I need a primer on English humour - language and its nuances were the basis of my professional life. Satire for me is best when it is a stiletto, introduced so subtly that it is not immediately noticed but is deadly. If I continue with the same analogy, the lines below ( not convinced I would call them satire ) are equivalent to a drunk lurching out of a bar and battering someone to death with a piece of nail-studded 2 x 2 they picked up in the street.. Nothing wrong with that when you want a belly-laugh, of course.



Originally Posted by fdr (Post 11406368)
A leader who messes up as badly as Putin has normally doesn't get to avoid the shallow ditch, jerry can and match retirement plan. In Vlads case, an opportunistic open upper floor window would be poetic, but the back ramp of a IL-76 carrying #200's would at least achieve terminal velocity


rattman 22nd Mar 2023 10:10

T-55's on the move
https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1638472120534458368

train with
at least 14 t-55's

coley chaos 22nd Mar 2023 10:11

There was a P8, 2 Polish aircraft and an assortment doing the same yesterday although a firmer gathering this morning.

NutLoose 22nd Mar 2023 10:27

UK to purchase Swedish Archer artillery systems to replace the AS-90's delivered to Ukraine. Finally a top of the range modern bit of kit reputed to be the best in the world.... what are we doing with it? ;)

https://www.army.mod.uk/news-and-eve...l-with-sweden/


The British Army will receive modern artillery platforms to replace those supplied to Ukraine, as part of an agreement struck with Sweden.

The first 14 Archer artillery systems will be owned by the British Army this month and be fully operational by next April, forming an interim replacement for the 32 AS90 artillery systems the UK gifted to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Designed and built by BAE Systems Bofors in Sweden, Archer has double the maximum range of AS90, greater operational mobility, greater availability and reduced time into action. Operated by 3-4 crew, it has a lower requirement for personnel than the AS90’s five, and benefits from a higher top speed of 70 kph compared to the current 53 kph.

Tartiflette Fan 22nd Mar 2023 10:37


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11406479)
UK to purchase Swedish Archer artillery systems to replace the AS-90's delivered to Ukraine. Finally a top of the range modern bit of kit reputed to be the best in the world.... what are we doing with it? ;)

https://www.army.mod.uk/news-and-eve...l-with-sweden/

I didn't know BAE owned Bofors: I thoughts Hägglund was their sole Swedish company. A quick search now shows me that Alvis bought Bofors quite a while back.

I wonder which criteria swung the decision in favour of Archer rather than the other SPG on offer ? Speed seems the most obvious factor, although Caesar is faster.

FUMR 22nd Mar 2023 11:20

FDR

Please continue with your satirical posts. I believe that more of us appreciate them than those who don't!

TUPE 22nd Mar 2023 11:30


Originally Posted by FUMR (Post 11406510)
FDR

Please continue with your satirical posts. I believe that more of us appreciate them than those who don't!

..☝🏻..

ORAC 22nd Mar 2023 11:45


​​​​I find wordy text wordy.
​​​
Prolix

jolihokistix 22nd Mar 2023 11:46

@rattman above, T54/55s to push through to the big WW2 ammo dump waiting for them in Transnistria? GOAL!!!!!

NutLoose 22nd Mar 2023 11:52

Zelensky has been in the Bahkmut region handing out awards.


ORAC 22nd Mar 2023 11:54


I wonder which criteria swung the decision in favour of Archer rather than the other SPG on offer ?
Immediate availability. The first of the 14 will be delivered this month, with all 14 fully operational by April 2024.

Some eyebrows raised at Sweden selling them when their replacements won't arrive till 2029-2030, but apparently that was the their preferred replacement timescale anyway.


Wokkafans 22nd Mar 2023 12:01


NutLoose 22nd Mar 2023 12:10

Meanwhile it appears those Moscow police that we saw heavily handedly forcing people onto buses for Ukraine may well be joining them.
You would have thought they would be the last people he would want to send as they keep a tight lid on Moscow.


NutLoose 22nd Mar 2023 12:14


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11406538)
Immediate availability. The first of the 14 will be delivered this month, with all 14 fully operational by April 2024.

Some eyebrows raised at Sweden selling them when their replacements won't arrive till 2029-2030, but apparently that was the their preferred replacement timescale anyway.

Read it again, it does not say that. It says The first 14 Archer artillery systems will have ownership transferred to the British Army this month. That could mean anything, heck it could mean they are still in construction but have simply been earmarked as for the UK.

NutLoose 22nd Mar 2023 12:34

Aviation Content..


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....71ad8ae83c.png


A blast from the past that I have not seen noted anywhere else.


On April 3, 2022, a Russian IL-22 electronic evesdropping aircraft was hit by a Ukrainian BUK missile. Anticipating a second missile, the pilot performed a missile eavasion maneuver. There was indeed a second missile which, which just grazed the tail!
The aircraft caught fire but the aircraft's 4 turboprops engines were unharmed. The pilot immediately lowered the undercarriage for a possible emergency landing & the crew put out the fire. With 200 holes, leaking fuel heavily, the aircraft managed to limp back to base!

Translation form the main site The crews story

https://www-mk-ru.translate.goog/pol..._x_tr_pto=wapp


Anti-missile maneuver

From the very beginning of the special operation in Ukraine, Viktor Volodin and his crew immediately found themselves at the forefront. The first flight is February 24th. And then from day to day - the usual combat work, in which, according to some, there is nothing heroic.

Maybe so. But sometimes life puts a person in a situation where he has a simple choice: either become a hero or die. This happened to Viktor Volodin. On April 3, his plane was shot down by Ukrainian air defense.

On this day, the crew of the Il-22 aircraft under the command of Volodin received an order: "to work behind the ribbon" (this is how combat pilots call the line of demarcation).

IL-22 is an air control post that provides control and communication with command posts, ground units, reconnaissance, and aviation. And he also negotiates with army helicopters - they "go" so low to the ground that other communications sometimes do not reach them. The transfer of coordinates, if God forbid where someone was knocked out and urgent help is needed, also goes through it. IL-22 is one of the main combat units, without which it is difficult to coordinate the battle.

Ukrainian air defense is constantly hunting for these aircraft. Acts smart. Their air defense works without radar tracking, so that the positions of anti-aircraft systems cannot be detected. Radars turn on only when the target is already visually visible. They direct the rocket, launch - and then turn off again.

... In the indicated square, Major Volodin's plane had been flying for the previous two days. Apparently, the third was already expected. When the pilots occupied the desired zone and the height of 7600 meters, at the third hour of the flight, the crew of the Il-22 suddenly heard a loud bang. It resounded very close to the side. The pilots did not immediately realize that the Ukrainian air defense had worked. As it turned out later - a rocket of the Buk complex.

The cockpit immediately turned into a sieve. Air began to escape from the holes, making a deafening whistle - the cabin "hissed". The pilots felt the pressure drop. Normally, it is maintained as it is at an altitude of 1000-1500 meters. And then the crew suddenly found itself in a rarefied "highlands" - an altitude of 7600 meters. It feels like such an explosive depressurization is akin to a shell shock: everything floats before your eyes, the brain turns off ...

A thought flashed through Victor's mind: maybe a second rocket launch - an anti-missile maneuver is needed!

This maneuver is taught to all military pilots, when with a large roll and vertical speed you change the flight path as steeply as possible so that the rocket does not catch up with the aircraft. But a maneuverable fighter is one thing, and the Il-22, a “heavenly slug”, created on the basis of the passenger Il-18, the former flagship of Aeroflot, is quite another. This is a reliable, stable machine for civil transport. The plane is not even a jet, but a propeller. What's the maneuver? But Volodin took a chance.

It will later be written in the objective control log that the actions to maintain the combat survivability of the aircraft were carried out competently, in cold blood and in a timely manner. But then he didn't think about it. I was just in a hurry to take the car with people away from the next blow. There were five crew members on board and four more - combat crew, command post specialists.

And then suddenly the flight engineer shouted: “We are on fire!” The damage caused the oxygen system to burst into flames. The flames crept onto the hull. Volodin ordered: "Run to extinguish!" The flight engineer and radio operator grabbed portable fire extinguishers and rushed to put out the flames.

At that moment, another pop sounded. The second rocket has already touched only the tail. If it had hit the engines, everything could have ended right there. Volodin realized that the anti-missile maneuver worked - by a large roll and descent, he managed to quickly change the flight path and get away from the missile. Now all that remained was to land this "leaky" plane.

On the rest of the fuel

IL-22 went down. Having released the landing gear and preparing for an emergency landing, he walked towards Rostov-on-Don. And then again the flight engineer's cry: "There, kerosene is pouring from all the cracks!". This was already clear from the fuel gauges. Their indicators quickly descended lower and lower: the car was rapidly losing fuel.

Since the engines were still running, the plane was flying, and the fire on board was extinguished, the crew decided to still try to land on their airfield, and not in an open field. Although the situation was very dangerous. It is not clear how she could develop further. Kerosene was gushing from the fuel tanks, engines were working nearby, which could flare up at any moment ...

In the air, the plane burns quickly, like a match. Major Volodin ordered everyone to put on parachutes and, just in case, be ready to leave the board. He pulled his "Il" to the airfield and mentally thanked God for the fact that there were fields around and no big hills. I tried to avoid settlements as far as possible, keeping an eye on potential landing sites at the same time. He understood: if the car catches fire, it cannot happen near the village: there are people there. If anything, you need to sit down somewhere in the field ...

The entire flight from the impact of the second missile to landing took only 10 minutes. And it seemed like an eternity. The pilots knew that guys and command were waiting for them in Rostov-on-Don, and besides, it would be easier to land on the emergency board in a familiar lane. At the military airfield, they were indeed given priority landing. Fire trucks rolled out, prepared rescuers, doctors ...

Il-22 went to the strip by the shortest path at an angle of 90 degrees. He leveled course before landing. They sat down clearly, as if written, turning off the engines and leaving only one, which was the least damaged. They rolled on it.

Everything was done so quickly that there was even a little fuel left in the tanks. Already on the ground, the guys from the crew silently looked at each other and understood that almost a miracle had happened: they not only survived themselves, but also managed to save the plane stuffed with top-secret equipment. If this board "squatted" or fell somewhere on the territory of Ukraine, and the enemy got the equipment, the losses from the point of view of state secrets would be enormous.

The award did not find heroes

Already on the ground, examining their wounded Il, the pilots were sincerely happy: how lucky they were that no one was injured on board - no one was killed, no one was injured by shrapnel ... The Il-22 is designed for long, hours-long flights. It has places for recreation, a kitchen, a table where you can have a bite to eat, drink tea. All these compartments were full of holes from rocket shrapnel, but at the time of the defeat, by some miracle, there were no people in them!

Representatives of the industry counted more than 200 through holes in the aircraft - in the engines, wing, cables ... The electrical wiring was damaged, as well as the oil and fuel systems. The striking elements of the Buk hit the tail. Engineers walked around the cabin and wondered: how did they sit down ?!

Made an act. Despite serious damage, it turned out that the aircraft could be restored. It was sent for overhaul. "Ilu" should patch up all the holes, starting from the fuel tanks, replace the engines, propellers, which were also cut, but still - thanks to the designers! – continued to rotate to the last. After that, the plane will be back in service.

And his crew is already in the ranks. After ten days in the rest home, the pilots went to work, and three weeks later they again went to the special operation zone to perform regular combat missions.

Oddly enough, no one from this crew has been awarded in the past six months. Somewhere up there, everyone was arguing, deciding, it seemed that they even sent some documents for the performance. But then, they say, there was again someone who said: “So what? Nonsense! We also flew in holes in our time ... "

Probably so. We really have a lot of real men in the army who can find a way out of the most hopeless situations, for which they can definitely be called Heroes of Russia. Is it just the awards?

... And therefore, when Tamara Volodina walks through the streets of the town and people around ask: well, have you already handed your husband the Star of the Hero? - although she answers “no”, she still smiles and proudly raises her head. She really has something to be proud of. And people know it. On merit and honor.

Of course, our people serve and risk their lives not for rewards. Work is like that. And yet, you must admit, when soldiers and officers who have passed difficult tests remain "with their own" - this is not entirely fair. MK journalists hope that in the case of the crew of Major Volodin, justice will still prevail.


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