Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
(Post 11371022)
It's a great shame that this tank issue is causing such division amongst allies when what is needed at this point is unity in confronting Putin's expansionism.
To plagiarise the three Musketeers, it should be all for one and one for all. |
Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
(Post 11371022)
It's a great shame that this tank issue is causing such division amongst allies when what is needed at this point is unity in confronting Putin's expansionism.
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Mark Hertling riposte regarding the Abrams vs Leopard thread post earlier…..
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 11371049)
To plagiarise the three Musketeers, it should be all for one and one for all.
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Dea King and general across the board update of operations.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...near-black-sea Ukraine Situation Report: Donated Sea King Helicopter Makes Debut Near Black Sea |
Originally Posted by _Agrajag_
(Post 11370983)
There is a great deal of merit in paying to retain a UK capability, The proviso is that it MUST be interoperable. The UK has a very nasty habit of producing unicorns, and then not having the funds to keep them operational and properly supported.
The largest and most important Infantry programme of the last few decades originally had 'Interoperability' in the title of the oversight and management authority. The aim was to reduce casualties, through integration and interoperability increasing tempo. DEC insisted that 'Interoperability' be removed before approval. 'We aren't required to be interoperable with our own people (RN and RAF, or even other Army units), never mind allies'. To this day it's not in the title. It's an aspiration, not a policy. |
Originally Posted by langleybaston
(Post 11370940)
Do we have VSOs among us?
And if so, are any smart? |
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The Economist:
Vladimir Putin’s war is turning Russia into a failed state, with uncontrolled borders, private military formations, a fleeing population, moral decay and the possibility of civil conflict. https://www.economist.com/the-world-...ing-into-chaos |
Thinks tense between Washington and Berlin…
Interesting report from SZ on the Leopards 2 debacle and the discussions between the US and Germany "The refusal from Berlin led to violent reactions in Washington" Lloyd Austin is said to have gotten into a heated argument with Scholz's chief of staff…. |
Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 11370979)
I think any replacement new build needs to be home built, buying in has a quality all of its own, however, buying in means the demise of the UK’s tank building industry, the closing of factories and the dispersal of the design teams meaning you will be beholden to other countries for your Armaments from hence forth. Look what happened to the likes of the UK’s once world beating military aviation companies, killed off by imports.
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Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin
(Post 11371496)
Pardon the maritime metaphor, but that ship has sailed. The only real "tank-builders" in the UK closed well over a decade ago - and we haven't designed a "new" main battle tank in the UK since the mid-80s, so it's not as if there was a design team to disperse in the first place..
There comes a point where the loss of capability from cuts in spending, or Thatcherite selling off our expertise for next to nothing, is going to seriously bite us in the bum. Being dependent on other nations for key expertise and manufacturing capability puts us at the mercy of both those other nations and the influence of the multinational commercial entities they rely on. The war in Ukraine should be a wake-up call. We've seen how one petty tyrant can cause massive global disruption. Everyone in the UK, and many other countries, has felt the impact of so many countries being influenced badly by one tyrannical state. I doubt our bloody government will take a blind bit of notice, though. Learning lessons from experience is not something governments do. |
Originally Posted by _Agrajag_
(Post 11371507)
Being dependent on other nations for key expertise and manufacturing capability puts us at the mercy of both those other nations and the influence of the multinational commercial entities they rely on.
Originally Posted by _Agrajag_
(Post 11371507)
The war in Ukraine should be a wake-up call. We've seen how one petty tyrant can cause massive global disruption.
Maybe Britain can find some way to undo Britexit? |
Thatcherite selling off our expertise for next to nothing, is going to seriously bite us in the bum. From Agrajag
Not just in this field either. The family Silver was sold off then and has kept being so. Politics drove construction of two new aircraft carriers and I leave it to those who know a lot more than me to judge if that was the right priority. Frankly I doubt it |
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Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin
(Post 11371496)
Pardon the maritime metaphor, but that ship has sailed. The only real "tank-builders" in the UK closed well over a decade ago - and we haven't designed a "new" main battle tank in the UK since the mid-80s, so it's not as if there was a design team to disperse in the first place..
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The key is in the wording "Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land (RBSL) is a UK-based combat vehicles design, manufacturing and support business." It is neither UK owned nor UK controlled. All "UK based" expertise and capability could be shut down and moved at the drop of a hat. Nothing the UK government could do to stop it. |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 11371484)
Lloyd Austin is said to have gotten into a heated argument with Scholz's chief of staff….
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Originally Posted by _Agrajag_
(Post 11371533)
The key is in the wording "Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land (RBSL) is a UK-based combat vehicles design, manufacturing and support business."
It is neither UK owned nor UK controlled. All "UK based" expertise and capability could be shut down and moved at the drop of a hat. Nothing the UK government could do to stop it. Care to prove what you write ? |
Originally Posted by henra
(Post 11371540)
He should not only shout at the chief of staff (who can't decide this on his own). This won't be sufficient. He should also shout at the perpetrator himself (Scholz). Or maybe Biden himself can give him a (verbal) beating?! I'm still counting on NSA to find material regarding Wirecard or Cum- Ex.
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