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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

dead_pan 11th Nov 2022 10:24

Surprised their phones are still working after floating so far down the river. Fake?

ORAC 11th Nov 2022 10:24

Russian paratrooper on his last order in Kherson region:

"The last order was change into civilian clothing and run in any direction you wanted"

dead_pan 11th Nov 2022 10:29


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11329055)
Russian paratrooper on his last order in Kherson region:

"The last order was change into civilian clothing and run in any direction you wanted"

Any fighting-age male is going to at least raise suspicion amongst Uke forces.

NutLoose 11th Nov 2022 10:55

Russia blew up several spans of the bridge over the dam. Let's hope the dam structure itself is ok.



They dropped the Kherson rail bridge too


Bridge detonation ( Rail)


..

..

Wokkafans 11th Nov 2022 10:59


Originally Posted by dead_pan (Post 11329054)
Surprised their phones are still working after floating so far down the river. Fake?


I read elsewhere that it is believed to be fake.

NutLoose 11th Nov 2022 11:06

Mud season is in full swing


ORAC 11th Nov 2022 11:37

Not sure if it’s a request or a thank you…

Next to Ukrainian flag, citizens have hoisted the flag of the European Union. #Ukraine #Kherson


Beamr 11th Nov 2022 11:38


Originally Posted by dead_pan (Post 11329057)
Any fighting-age male is going to at least raise suspicion amongst Uke forces.

Ukrainians will know who's who the minute the suspect opens their mouth. A Russian may speak ukraine but will not talk like an Ukrainian. There are given Ukrainian words a Russian can't pronounce properly. Eg. palyanytsia. Bad pronounciation and you're done.

slate100 11th Nov 2022 11:46


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11329098)
Ukrainians will know who's who the minute the suspect opens their mouth. A Russian may speak ukraine but will not talk like an Ukrainian. There are given Ukrainian words a Russian can't pronounce properly. Eg. palyanytsia. Bad pronounciation and you're done.

The first casualty of war is not truth, but rather Ukrainians with lisps...

Wokkafans 11th Nov 2022 11:51

Short thread on the Ukrainian Uncrewed Surface Vessels (USV) used recently to attack Russian vessels in harbour.





NutLoose 11th Nov 2022 11:53

So it appears the span of the bridge they dropped ( small one ) wasn't the previously damaged one...


NutLoose 11th Nov 2022 11:59

Not seen these before, it shows right up until the remote boats hit the ships at Sevastopol. Previous versions stopped earlier.



fdr 11th Nov 2022 12:13


Originally Posted by Less Hair (Post 11329032)
Would they be protected by the Geneva convention without uniform (combatant status)? More like kamikazes being left on the western bank with no bridges.

What war? :} Wasn't this a special Vladimir yada yada?
  • US Field Manual (1976), the use of civilian clothing by troops to conceal their military character during battle is an act for which a combatant would lose his right to be treated as a prisoner of war.
  • “In addition to the ‘grave breaches’ of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, the following acts are representative of violations of the law of war (‘war crimes’): … use of civilian clothing by troops to conceal their military character during battle.”
  • Customary international law does not … prohibit belligerents from using saboteurs, secret agents or other irregular forces feigning civilian status to attack legitimate military targets. Wear of civilian clothing during an attack, or during a spying or sabotage mission behind enemy lines, may subject combatants to punishment if captured by the enemy.
  • Article 44(3) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides:
    In order to promote the protection of the civilian population from the effects of hostilities, combatants are obliged to distinguish themselves from the civilian population while they are engaged in an attack or in a military operation preparatory to an attack
  • The Russian Federation’s Regulations on the Application of IHL (2001) states:
    Combatants have the right to take a direct part in combat operations and, if captured by the enemy, the right to be granted the prisoner of war status. Combatants are obliged to comply with the rules of international humanitarian law in their activities and to distinguish themselves from the civilian population at least by carrying their arms openly during each military engagement or while being visible to the enemy before the engagement.
  • Ukraine’s IHL Manual (2004) states:
    Combatants are obliged to distinguish themselves from the civilian population while they are engaged in an attack (or in a military operation preparatory to an attack), at least by carrying their arms openly.

    If a combatant falls into the power of an adverse party, he shall be entitled to the status of a prisoner of war

They get to be sorted out and handled as POW until their status is verified. Thereafter, they get to be treated as common criminals or as POWs. Shooting them as spies might have been great sport once upon a time but is frowned upon, that would be a war crime in itself, which is what Russia has done repeatedly to POWs in recent and historical times.


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11329055)
Russian paratrooper on his last order in Kherson region:
"The last order was change into civilian clothing and run in any direction you wanted"

That would be a breach of the Geneva Convention by the officers and their managers.


Originally Posted by dead_pan (Post 11329057)
Any fighting-age male is going to at least raise suspicion amongst Uke forces.

yup. Poor old Special Kherson Cat needs to be vouched for.... along with his cat, who should not be treated as a spy cat, and certainly is not a plump, juicy morsel to serve up with field mushrooms, and a fine red white red white.

Its going to be an MP's nightmare... They need to offer fair alternatives to the poor old Ruski Konscripti, "dead meat" was not the cause of the unpleasantness, they have been shot at by their own sides, and it would be a fair bet that those left behind are not the professional hardliner lifers that messed up royally all round. The options are to give them an opportunity to surrender gracefully, or to be taken out by force. There should be ALARP on risk to the Ukrainian forces to clear out the mess, and the guys that did that need to 'fess up on where the booby traps and mines are. Once captured, it is unlawful to ask them to work on military matters or be used as minefield clearance droids. Ukraine has behaved gracefully under severe stress, and are a stark contrast to Russia, and they need to maintain that distinction IMHO.

On the basis of no good turn.... perhaps the Kerch bridge has run out it's useful life, would seem to be a balanced response to the drop of the bridges today in Kherson oblast.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....76e4a9508.jpeg


ORAC 11th Nov 2022 12:15

ROFL….

"The Ministry of Defense reported that at 5:00 Moscow time, the transfer of Russian troops to the left bank of the Dnieper was completed. As the department clarifies, not a single piece of military equipment and weapons was left on the right bank." …..


NutLoose 11th Nov 2022 12:19

Kherson city square



pasta 11th Nov 2022 12:20


Originally Posted by fdr (Post 11329122)
On the basis of no good turn.... perhaps the Kerch bridge has run out it's useful life, would seem to be a balanced response to the drop of the bridges today in Kherson oblast.

Assuming the Kerch bridge isn't currently being used to transport significant quantities of anything important (which appears to be the case), surely better to let Russia expend further time and resources on trying to fix it, and then drop it when they're done?

fdr 11th Nov 2022 12:26


Originally Posted by pasta (Post 11329129)
Assuming the Kerch bridge isn't currently being used to transport significant quantities of anything important (which appears to be the case), surely better to let Russia expend further time and resources on trying to fix it, and then drop it when they're done?

true, quite true. timing is everything. It is definitely time to give Ukraine the full range for the 270's to take out every rail line that crosses the occupied territory. It is past time for the Ruskis to go home. They are not fast on the uptake of the hint that Ukraine is giving them. Taking out the MSR is the fastest way to make their life miserable and get a bit of a Vlad hate mail going in revolt. That is the least amount of Ukrainians placed at direct risk.(IMHO)

fdr 11th Nov 2022 12:27


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11329125)
ROFL….



"The Ministry of Defense reported that at 5:00 Moscow time, the transfer of Russian troops to the left bank of the Dnieper was completed. As the department clarifies, not a single piece of military equipment and weapons was left on the right bank." …..

That is tortologically possibly, maybe a true statement.... RuZZia didn't leave anything behind, they donated them to the Ukrainians. :}

skua 11th Nov 2022 12:37


Any fighting-age male is going to at least raise suspicion amongst Uke forces.
Trouble is the orcs seem to have a broader definition of "fighting age male" than most NATO countries!

dead_pan 11th Nov 2022 12:39


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11329126)
Kherson city square

Looks remarkably intact compared to the likes of Kharkiv etc.


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