Ukraine War Thread Part 2
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Ben Wallace being remarkably undiplomatic….
UK not an Amazon delivery service for weapons to Ukraine, says defence secretary Ben Wallace
The minister said "whether we like it or not people want to see gratitude" for weapons sent to Ukraine, adding that Kyiv needs to "persuade doubting politicians in other countries that you know that it's worth it".
UK not an Amazon delivery service for weapons to Ukraine, says defence secretary Ben Wallace
The minister said "whether we like it or not people want to see gratitude" for weapons sent to Ukraine, adding that Kyiv needs to "persuade doubting politicians in other countries that you know that it's worth it".
What exactly were they, and how are they applicable today ?
Very reasonable comment as I see it.. If Zelensky is always going to scream " Not Enough " every time, then it's the kid crying wolf. Zelensky has made himself a very big media figure, but needs to understand that that is not always the best way to achieve his objectives.
Bravo to Ben Wallace for having slapped him in the chops.
Bravo to Ben Wallace for having slapped him in the chops.
Once or twice in a British generation we get such a person, and I believe BW is such. Sadly, their fate is to be remembered as a loose cannon, often with some respect and affection, and often by opponents.
Robin Cook, Ann Widdecombe, General Mike Jackson are on my list. Other lists are available.
OK mods, bin this like my recent feeble attempts at contribution.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
What exactly were they, and how are they applicable today ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
The infighting in Russia has now spread to the army - the Supreme Command literally fragging each other…
Ivan Popov, the major general (chief) of the 58th Russian army, which is now fighting in the southern part of occupied Ukraine, has resigned and recorded a very interesting audio message. Here are the quotes:
1. First of all complaining about his superiors. Only the General Staff of RF is his superior, so it is obvious that it is Gerasimov. He says that he is not listened to, his problems are not perceived.
2. He says they have no counter-battery, no artillery. His soldiers are being killed en masse by Ukrainian artillery. Says there are a number of other problems he can't talk about. (about this later)…..
I'm done with his quotes. Now the most interesting part from another source.
On July 11, a Storm Shadow strike has made on the 58th Army's headquarters in Berdyansk where the deputy commander of the 58th Army, General Tsokov , was killed.
Now, this source says that it was General Popov who was the target. And the coordinates of the headquarter of 58th army were leaked by.....
And this is post from a small russian tg-public. By the way, the information was posted here BEFORE the news with Popov was published….
Ivan Popov, the major general (chief) of the 58th Russian army, which is now fighting in the southern part of occupied Ukraine, has resigned and recorded a very interesting audio message. Here are the quotes:
1. First of all complaining about his superiors. Only the General Staff of RF is his superior, so it is obvious that it is Gerasimov. He says that he is not listened to, his problems are not perceived.
2. He says they have no counter-battery, no artillery. His soldiers are being killed en masse by Ukrainian artillery. Says there are a number of other problems he can't talk about. (about this later)…..
I'm done with his quotes. Now the most interesting part from another source.
On July 11, a Storm Shadow strike has made on the 58th Army's headquarters in Berdyansk where the deputy commander of the 58th Army, General Tsokov , was killed.
Now, this source says that it was General Popov who was the target. And the coordinates of the headquarter of 58th army were leaked by.....
And this is post from a small russian tg-public. By the way, the information was posted here BEFORE the news with Popov was published….
Seriously though, a platform where you have to use perverse workarounds (as in the 1/x, 2/x thread pattern) is clearly not fit for purpose. And as others have said, the mental overhead of sorting the wheat from the chaff (e.g. that Sushko guy) is just not worth it.
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A little more detail. From the New York Times (free viewing for a quite a few articles and, IMHO, well worth the subscripton) https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/12/w...l-missing.html
One top commander has disappeared since a mutiny. Another was killed in an airstrike in Ukraine. Another accused his leadership of treachery after being fired. And a fourth former commander was gunned down while out on a jog in what may have been an organized hit.
The ranks of the Russian military have continued to be roiled by instability in the days since a short-lived insurrection by Wagner mercenaries three weeks ago, as pressures from Moscow’s nearly 17-month war reverberate across the armed forces.
On Wednesday, mystery deepened over the fate of Gen. Sergei Surovikin, the country’s former top commander in Ukraine, who has been dubbed “General Armageddon” for his ruthless tactics, and who has not been seen since the Wagner rebellion.
One of the country’s top lawmakers said, when pressed by a reporter, that the general was “taking a rest.”
The ranks of the Russian military have continued to be roiled by instability in the days since a short-lived insurrection by Wagner mercenaries three weeks ago, as pressures from Moscow’s nearly 17-month war reverberate across the armed forces.
On Wednesday, mystery deepened over the fate of Gen. Sergei Surovikin, the country’s former top commander in Ukraine, who has been dubbed “General Armageddon” for his ruthless tactics, and who has not been seen since the Wagner rebellion.
One of the country’s top lawmakers said, when pressed by a reporter, that the general was “taking a rest.”
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Very reasonable comment as I see it.. If Zelensky is always going to scream " Not Enough " every time, then it's the kid crying wolf. Zelensky has made himself a very big media figure, but needs to understand that that is not always the best way to achieve his objectives.
Bravo to Ben Wallace for having slapped him in the chops.
Bravo to Ben Wallace for having slapped him in the chops.
Ukraine's president came to Vilnius, Lithuania, with high expectations.
He was looking for an assurance that his country would join Nato after the war with Russia was over. He wanted membership of the world's most powerful military alliance to be a beacon of hope for his people, the ultimate peace dividend that could ensure that never again would Russian troops despoil the Ukrainian homeland.
Instead, Mr Zelensky was simply told Ukraine would be invited to become a member "when allies agree and conditions are met". So far, so noncommittal.
Not surprisingly Ukraine's president hit the roof, saying it was "absurd" for Nato leaders not to give even so much as a timetable. The conditions, he said, were "vague".
And he was furious at the idea that somehow Ukraine's membership of Nato would somehow be a bargaining chip for post-war negotiations with Russia.
But once President Zelensky met Nato leaders face-to-face, the diplomatic dust settled. They fell over themselves on Wednesday to assure him that things had changed, that Ukraine would join Nato.
He was looking for an assurance that his country would join Nato after the war with Russia was over. He wanted membership of the world's most powerful military alliance to be a beacon of hope for his people, the ultimate peace dividend that could ensure that never again would Russian troops despoil the Ukrainian homeland.
Instead, Mr Zelensky was simply told Ukraine would be invited to become a member "when allies agree and conditions are met". So far, so noncommittal.
Not surprisingly Ukraine's president hit the roof, saying it was "absurd" for Nato leaders not to give even so much as a timetable. The conditions, he said, were "vague".
And he was furious at the idea that somehow Ukraine's membership of Nato would somehow be a bargaining chip for post-war negotiations with Russia.
But once President Zelensky met Nato leaders face-to-face, the diplomatic dust settled. They fell over themselves on Wednesday to assure him that things had changed, that Ukraine would join Nato.
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I think he was trying to get as much as he could from the NATO crowd, there will probably never be a better time to twist their arms and extract promises from them.
Later, after the war is over, their attention may fade.
Not everything is always as it seems.
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NATO members have a duty of assistance to every member under attack. Making Ukraine a member now, during a war, would move NATO into full war with Russia. This is why everybody knew that any formal invitation would be impossible until after this war has ended.
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The Budapest Memorandum was covered quite a lot on here at the start but I don't recall it having an "expiry" date. I don't find it acceptable that a man sitting a long way from the war zone should publicly criticise the leader of a country fighting for its very existence (and trivialise it by using Amazon) against a much larger agressor, I'm sure it gives comfort to the Russians to see some "cracks" in the allies. I suspect though that this is getting off topic. Slava Ukraini.
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I suspect that a lot of the rhetoric was for domestic consumption, the Ukrainians currently are losing people for a cause and he has to show that he is pushing NATO to provide the wherewithal to help them.
I feel for the guy, he's a different breed to any politician I've ever seen. Didn't flee in the face of immense personal threat, while facing a vast information warfare capability that seeks to label him a Nazi, destroy his image and undermine him at every possible opportunity. He was, and is a catastrophe for Russia.
Make no mistake, Russian media are amplifying any hint of disagreement, they desperately need to destroy this brave and honorable soul.
Make no mistake, Russian media are amplifying any hint of disagreement, they desperately need to destroy this brave and honorable soul.
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Kyiv has been getting hammered throughout the conference - which might have contributed to his mood…
”Suspilne, Ukraine's state broadcaster, has an update on the damage in Kyiv after yet another night where Russia has struck at Ukraine’s capital – the third night in a row. It reports:
Air defence during the night shot down all 20 “Shahed” drones and two Kalibr missiles. The consequences of the launch of the Iskander-M ballistic missile are being clarified….
At night, the Russian army attacked Antonivka and Kherson. Over the past day, three people were killed and two were injured in the Kherson region. Eight people were injured in Donetsk region, one in Kharkiv region.
The number of people injured due to the fall of an explosive object in Zaporizhzhia on 12 July increased to 21 people, including eight children.”…..
”Suspilne, Ukraine's state broadcaster, has an update on the damage in Kyiv after yet another night where Russia has struck at Ukraine’s capital – the third night in a row. It reports:
Air defence during the night shot down all 20 “Shahed” drones and two Kalibr missiles. The consequences of the launch of the Iskander-M ballistic missile are being clarified….
At night, the Russian army attacked Antonivka and Kherson. Over the past day, three people were killed and two were injured in the Kherson region. Eight people were injured in Donetsk region, one in Kharkiv region.
The number of people injured due to the fall of an explosive object in Zaporizhzhia on 12 July increased to 21 people, including eight children.”…..
Very reasonable comment as I see it.. If Zelensky is always going to scream " Not Enough " every time, then it's the kid crying wolf. Zelensky has made himself a very big media figure, but needs to understand that that is not always the best way to achieve his objectives.
Bravo to Ben Wallace for having slapped him in the chops.
Bravo to Ben Wallace for having slapped him in the chops.