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UK F-35B Lost

Old 9th Dec 2021, 15:35
  #321 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dctyke View Post
Do the navy still have shore leave after deployments at sea and do RAF personnel enjoy the same treatment?
Certainly the RN personnel - they'll be off for X-mas now. Not sure about RAF.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 16:38
  #322 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Auxtank View Post
Certainly the RN personnel - they'll be off for X-mas now. Not sure about RAF.
They’ll be off to Prince of Wales
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 17:34
  #323 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mogwi View Post
With the SHAR, by the time you noticed something was wrong you were going off the end - one way or another. Just no time (or brakes) to stop.

Mog
Was there ever a time when an aircraft, having started it's take-off run from a carrier had the time or room to stop? Hundreds of aircraft must have been lost like that over the years, with many fatalities.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 17:58
  #324 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, I guess the last time that it was possible was pre-catapult, when it was possible to check full power on the brakes before committing. You still had to judge the deck pitch though and could end up with a face-full of oggin if you timed it wrong. One advantage of the ramp!

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Old 9th Dec 2021, 18:24
  #325 (permalink)  
 
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to what the $100M price tag is paying for.

I suspect that some of it buys great big houses in Lancashire.


Originally Posted by Auxtank View Post
I am outraged by this.

Seriously? The Sun posts it - Twatter follows it up - all based on (probably) THIS Forum and egoat.

Are you seriously saying that EICAS wouldn't have picked this up at Idle Power?

Even though it'll report the fact that you've left the port side ashtray lid open.

If so, I'm confused as to what the $100M price tag is paying for.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 18:31
  #326 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Warren Peace View Post
I suspect that some of it buys great big houses in Lancashire.
Yeeees.
Hope now everyone's ashore getting wrecked in Pompey it's not a case of "Here endeth the lesson."

Somebody on this thread stated that $100M constituted 3 days expenditure by the NHS.
"Puts it in to perspective. Too much bloody perspective if you ask me." (Spinal Tap, MOVIE Quote)


Last edited by Auxtank; 9th Dec 2021 at 19:46.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 18:39
  #327 (permalink)  
 
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Did I miss the recovery? Any photos ??
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 19:03
  #328 (permalink)  
 
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No photos. No details.
As expected and one must therefore assume a successful recovery of all the important bits - which is basically all of it.
The Ejector Seat will be missing - which is good.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-mediterranean

Last edited by Auxtank; 9th Dec 2021 at 20:18.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 20:17
  #329 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Auxtank View Post
Yeeees.
Hope now everyone's ashore getting wrecked in Pompey it's not a case of "Here endeth the lesson."

Somebody on this thread stated that $100M constituted 3 days expenditure by the NHS.
"Puts it in to perspective. Too much bloody perspective if you ask me." (Spinal Tap, MOVIE Quote)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAruBWa7LGk
It's about six hours expenditure by the NHS, or as someone else put it 'barely gets you to an early breakfast on new year's day'. NHS budget is £150B so ~£400m a day.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 20:23
  #330 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dctyke View Post
Do the navy still have shore leave after deployments at sea and do RAF personnel enjoy the same treatment?
You’d hope the RAF has learned about this post-PITTING…
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 01:34
  #331 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LateArmLive View Post
Ooh, I do love a good quiz. I'm basing my opinion of your "absolute speculation" on actually knowing the ins and outs of the accident. You, however, have no knowledge to state there was a FADEC problem.
As for my knowledge of FADECs, it's purely from an operators experience. I think you might need to accept you know very little about the F35 engine and this accident. Maybe even stop making incredible claims, even if this is a Rumour Network.
Most people on here flew gas turbines with HMUs with no high end IEC protection or FADEC. Did you? I am not 60 years old yet. Operators are not engineers. When it goes wrong, do you have a clue? No. You put Inop in the tech log / F707A and expect me to work out the snag with mimimal info.. The F135 engiine on this F35B sucked a major FOD item into its P2 point at an entry speed of 0.5 Mach. Basic gas turbine theory taught in the RAF and module 15 of the B1 theory exams. Expect carnage. 300 type courses mean nothing if you cannot remember the basics. So end the lesson.

Last edited by Cat Techie; 10th Dec 2021 at 01:52.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 07:14
  #332 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
Most people on here flew gas turbines with HMUs with no high end IEC protection or FADEC. Did you? I am not 60 years old yet. Operators are not engineers. When it goes wrong, do you have a clue? No. You put Inop in the tech log / F707A and expect me to work out the snag with mimimal info.. The F135 engiine on this F35B sucked a major FOD item into its P2 point at an entry speed of 0.5 Mach. Basic gas turbine theory taught in the RAF and module 15 of the B1 theory exams. Expect carnage. 300 type courses mean nothing if you cannot remember the basics. So end the lesson.
I don't really care how old you are, but thanks for the story. As for your theory above - where does the "FADEC problem" you previously claimed come into things?
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 10:02
  #333 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LateArmLive View Post
I don't really care how old you are, but thanks for the story. As for your theory above - where does the "FADEC problem" you previously claimed come into things?
Two completely separate things.
FADEC Engine control simply takes on some of the engine management and handling requirements and does them a bit more accurately.
But, however the engine is being controlled, severe FOD will result in a significant reduction in engine thrust, sometimes with engine surge which may become locked in.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 10:14
  #334 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
Most people on here flew gas turbines with HMUs with no high end IEC protection or FADEC. Did you? I am not 60 years old yet. Operators are not engineers. When it goes wrong, do you have a clue? No. You put Inop in the tech log / F707A and expect me to work out the snag with mimimal info.. The F135 engiine on this F35B sucked a major FOD item into its P2 point at an entry speed of 0.5 Mach. Basic gas turbine theory taught in the RAF and module 15 of the B1 theory exams. Expect carnage. 300 type courses mean nothing if you cannot remember the basics. So end the lesson.
Err why are you having a pop at me? and quoting someone else? Perhaps one needs glasses. I wasn't the one asking the question. I would point out though FADEC is on everything these days, not just turbines.
And for your info as you appear to be having an unwarranted pop at me, I was an A Tech P in the RAF and post RAF have worked on Learjets, Beechjets, Citations, Gulfstreams, Falcons and turboprops galore.


..

Last edited by NutLoose; 10th Dec 2021 at 10:54.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 11:52
  #335 (permalink)  
 
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For those who may not have seen it....flopping off the ramp at the 7:10 point:


IG

Last edited by Imagegear; 10th Dec 2021 at 12:06.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 12:09
  #336 (permalink)  
 
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At 3.02 if only she knew
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 13:15
  #337 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Err why are you having a pop at me? and quoting someone else? Perhaps one needs glasses. I wasn't the one asking the question. I would point out though FADEC is on everything these days, not just turbines.
And for your info as you appear to be having an unwarranted pop at me, I was an A Tech P in the RAF and post RAF have worked on Learjets, Beechjets, Citations, Gulfstreams, Falcons and turboprops galore.


..
Well said.
I don't understand why the subject of FADEC is being referred to in this instance.
But to clarify.
A GT engine may feature either Inlet Guide Vanes at the front of a compressor or Variable Guide Vanes or Bleed/Blow Off Valve at the rear of the compressor.
Both of these features would be controlled by the FADEC.
However, these are specifically to act as airflow aerodynamic devices to either raise the surge line or reduce the compressor running line.
But they would not be able to cope with compressor mechanical damage resulting in a surge.
On a typical modern GT, with a pressure ratio of over 25/1, a surge would happen incredibly quickly.
Certainly significantly faster than the normal FADEC data refresh rate of around 5 to 10Hz. And there is then the matter of the IGV/VGV/BV response time.
This would be nothing like fast enough to get anywhere near able to react to a compressor mechanical damage caused surge. And should the damage become serious enough, the surge would lock in meaning that the engine would have be either throttled back or more likely shut down.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 13:37
  #338 (permalink)  
 
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No photos. No details.
Indeed, you have to suppose that there's a reasonable chance they (or another maritime F-35 operator) may have to do this again over the course of the jet's lifespan, and don't want to give too much away as to how they managed it this time around.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 13:43
  #339 (permalink)  
 
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Salute!

Good poop, Buster. Thanks.

Only bad FOD I ever had was a chunk of ice that had built up in the intake and the end-of-rwy troops didn't see it. Ingested just after gear came up. Being a P&W F100 turbofan the chunk was diced and sliced, then mostly went thru the bypass ducting. Was in a Viper, so sucker struck the fan blades right under my seat, so it was very apparent something was awry. Secondly, when I retarded throttle I "felt" a vibration, so came back pronto for a heavyweight landing without touching the throttle again until rolling out. Had about 60 to 70 big compressor blades on first two stages missing chunks or severely bent. I don't know how much the damage reduced my power, but I had "enough" and did not tempt fate.

Can't imagine getting the F-35B off the deck without max specified power and some wind over the deck. And BTW, seems the USN did a "cold cat" test for their Cee model. Prolly find something over on the F-16 dot net F-35 forums.

Gums sends...
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 13:55
  #340 (permalink)  
 
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Can't imagine getting the F-35B off the deck without max specified power and some wind over the deck.
Well, they did launch one while the ship was stationary in Portsmouth some months back so doesn't necessarily need wind over the deck. Of course, no idea who much fuel etc that was carrying, but the MoD did say that this crashed aircraft was not carrying any stores so wouldn't have been that heavy.
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