UK F-35B Lost
Sorry guys, the fuel control system of any gas turbine engine requires 5 basic inputs for self control either by FADEC or the Fuel control unit itself. These are a reference of PT2 and TT2 for air density, N2 Rpm, Throttle position and PB (Combustion chamber pressure) to prevent engine stall during acceleration. Supersonic aircraft need one additional control factor and that is MA (Mach number) to prevent excessive air entering the engine intake when aircraft airspeed is above Mach.
All other parameters such as N1 Rpm, TIT, FF, PT7 or Oil Pressure are simply for indication to the pilot of the state of his engine EG N1 RPM or PT7-PT2 when converted to an EPR is used to inform the flight crew how much power the engine is producing with FF used as a cross reference. OIl pressure and TIT is simply to inform the aircrew on the state of the engine in regards to oil pressure and operating temperature. Some FADEC systems are designed with software to control any condition outside normal, by warning the aircrew and automatically retarding fuel flow to prevent engine over speeds and over temps and also relight the engine if it flames out during aggressive maneuvering or abnormal atmospheric conditions if throttle position is in flight idle or above.
All other parameters such as N1 Rpm, TIT, FF, PT7 or Oil Pressure are simply for indication to the pilot of the state of his engine EG N1 RPM or PT7-PT2 when converted to an EPR is used to inform the flight crew how much power the engine is producing with FF used as a cross reference. OIl pressure and TIT is simply to inform the aircrew on the state of the engine in regards to oil pressure and operating temperature. Some FADEC systems are designed with software to control any condition outside normal, by warning the aircrew and automatically retarding fuel flow to prevent engine over speeds and over temps and also relight the engine if it flames out during aggressive maneuvering or abnormal atmospheric conditions if throttle position is in flight idle or above.
I am no STO VL or F35 specialist but ex FJ Question;
surely at the start of the roll it must have been obvious there was little or no forward thrust? From the video he could have aborted half way up the ramp he was going so slowly.
With all the Harrier experience in the UK surely there must be some early go no go speed/power/accel point? Just asking….
surely at the start of the roll it must have been obvious there was little or no forward thrust? From the video he could have aborted half way up the ramp he was going so slowly.
With all the Harrier experience in the UK surely there must be some early go no go speed/power/accel point? Just asking….
Mog
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The FADEC also had a slight problem in this case. P2 / P3 / P6 / N2 /T6 were all going out of normal parameters with an enging that would have been seeing its compresser and turbine stages rapidly chewing themselves up on parts of itself and a rogue intake blank. While myself and a colleague were waiting to ground run a small regional airliner today, we discused the accident in question and realised that an F35B was 7000 Kgs more than our airliners MTOM. Our highly effective brakes on 4 wheels wouldn't stop our aircraft from the distance from engine failure to end of deck at the same speed. The F35B brakes certainly could not.
First off to your earlier query I just read, when did I last run a gas turbine, probably several months ago, when did I last run an aircraft, several this month, type ratings about 300 types and engines, also C certifying and last issuance, 3 ARCS this month as a CAMO (Nov).
As for engine indications of an imminent failure, from experience of an IGV failure on an engine reported as slow to accelerate, none or milliseconds before it all let loose and the turbine departed rearwards, First indication aircraft shaking so much you couldn’t see the instruments in front of you, followed by fire warnings, unresponsive to throttle movement and only stopped when the fuel was chopped. Every case is different.
Any update on the recovery now it’s been located?
.
Spent many hours in the front waiting too. Well not actually in the front, in the back too, but would have been in the front shortly afterwards.
EXCLUSIVE – A credible source, wishing to remain unnamed, has confirmed that an arrest has been made in connection with the leaked footage of an F-35 crashing on take off from HMS Queen Elizabeth.
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...The lost jet : https://www.navylookout.com/photo-es...-homeward-leg/ 06 Dec 2021
"On 16th November HMS Queen Elizabeth passed through the Suez Canal and into the Mediterranean. While conducting routine flying operations on the 17th November a UK F-35 jet crashed on takeoff. Leaked footage shows the pilot ejected at the end of the ski ramp as the aircraft lacked sufficient airspeed to get airborne. Fortunately, the pilot survived and landed back on the ship under parachute and did not get wet. He has subsequently flown ashore for precautionary medical checks. Various unofficial sources report that the cause was a protective foam engine blank that was sucked into the jet, causing the loss of power. One of the blanks became dislodged and was blown out of sight into the central void in front of the engine. During pre-flight checks, the assumption was made that both covers had been removed when in fact one was lodged in the aircraft out of view. This version of events is unverified and the outcome of the investigation should be awaited before making judgements.
It has subsequently emerged that unfortunately, the aircraft lost was one of the newest in the UK fleet – ZM152. She first flew in June 2019 and would have had significantly lower Block IV upgrade requirements than older airframes. In co-operation with NATO allies, the MoD SALMO is taking the lead in the efforts to recover the wreck of the aircraft believed to be in around 1,500m of water in the Levantine Sea, South of Cyprus...."
"On 16th November HMS Queen Elizabeth passed through the Suez Canal and into the Mediterranean. While conducting routine flying operations on the 17th November a UK F-35 jet crashed on takeoff. Leaked footage shows the pilot ejected at the end of the ski ramp as the aircraft lacked sufficient airspeed to get airborne. Fortunately, the pilot survived and landed back on the ship under parachute and did not get wet. He has subsequently flown ashore for precautionary medical checks. Various unofficial sources report that the cause was a protective foam engine blank that was sucked into the jet, causing the loss of power. One of the blanks became dislodged and was blown out of sight into the central void in front of the engine. During pre-flight checks, the assumption was made that both covers had been removed when in fact one was lodged in the aircraft out of view. This version of events is unverified and the outcome of the investigation should be awaited before making judgements.
It has subsequently emerged that unfortunately, the aircraft lost was one of the newest in the UK fleet – ZM152. She first flew in June 2019 and would have had significantly lower Block IV upgrade requirements than older airframes. In co-operation with NATO allies, the MoD SALMO is taking the lead in the efforts to recover the wreck of the aircraft believed to be in around 1,500m of water in the Levantine Sea, South of Cyprus...."
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/h...-bed-xn0dhfp9x
HMS Queen Elizabeth: Sunken F-35 jet is raised from sea bed
The wreckage of an F-35 has been recovered from the sea bed in a delicate seven-day operation involving vessels from Britain, Italy and America, as a member of the military was arrested for leaking footage about the crash….
It is understood the arrested man was a member of the crew on the aircraft carrier and has been flown back to the UK. It is unclear whether he is in the Royal Navy or RAF.….
It has taken nearly three weeks for Britain to pull together the necessary experts to lift the wreckage to the surface. Defence sources said that they were “pleasantly surprised at how quickly the recovery took”. It is understood the conditions were particularly challenging because of stormy weather.…
HMS Queen Elizabeth: Sunken F-35 jet is raised from sea bed
The wreckage of an F-35 has been recovered from the sea bed in a delicate seven-day operation involving vessels from Britain, Italy and America, as a member of the military was arrested for leaking footage about the crash….
It is understood the arrested man was a member of the crew on the aircraft carrier and has been flown back to the UK. It is unclear whether he is in the Royal Navy or RAF.….
It has taken nearly three weeks for Britain to pull together the necessary experts to lift the wreckage to the surface. Defence sources said that they were “pleasantly surprised at how quickly the recovery took”. It is understood the conditions were particularly challenging because of stormy weather.…
Administrator
It is being a Licenced Aircraft Engineer that actually works with fairly modern technology. What is your knowledge of FADEC systems? Please tell me? What is a PMA? Changed the stator of one last night. What is their usual relationship with FADEC units?
First off to your earlier query I just read, when did I last run a gas turbine, probably several months ago, when did I last run an aircraft, several this month, type ratings about 300 types and engines, also C certifying and last issuance, 3 ARCS this month as a CAMO (Nov).
As for engine indications of an imminent failure, from experience of an IGV failure on an engine reported as slow to accelerate, none or milliseconds before it all let loose and the turbine departed rearwards, First indication aircraft shaking so much you couldn’t see the instruments in front of you, followed by fire warnings, unresponsive to throttle movement and only stopped when the fuel was chopped. Every case is different.
Any update on the recovery now it’s been located?
.
As for engine indications of an imminent failure, from experience of an IGV failure on an engine reported as slow to accelerate, none or milliseconds before it all let loose and the turbine departed rearwards, First indication aircraft shaking so much you couldn’t see the instruments in front of you, followed by fire warnings, unresponsive to throttle movement and only stopped when the fuel was chopped. Every case is different.
Any update on the recovery now it’s been located?
.
Most engine blade off failures end up with the the sypmtoms you describe. Seen birdstrikes on Turbofans. Fan may survive, Stators and compresser stages behind did not.
An interesting little tidbit buried in the coverage:
It is understood that while the point at which the jet entered the sea is known, the aircraft’s wings would have made it glide underwater for a reasonable distance before settling on the sea bed.
It is understood that while the point at which the jet entered the sea is known, the aircraft’s wings would have made it glide underwater for a reasonable distance before settling on the sea bed.
Given it went in dirty, with the dustbin lid open and top vent doors open, and all the Dunlops dangling.....I'd be surprised if it 'glided' underwater much at all.......
As for my knowledge of FADECs, it's purely from an operators experience. I think you might need to accept you know very little about the F35 engine and this accident. Maybe even stop making incredible claims, even if this is a Rumour Network.