UK F-35B Lost
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,453
Likes: 0
Received 31 Likes
on
29 Posts
FWIW wot is LAL? And FWIW some quotes repeated in this thread about STOVL MODE 4 auto eject in HOVER MODE:
F-35 Lightning II Cockpit Vision 19 Oct 2010 Michael Skaff [LM chief PVI Pilot Vehicle Interface Designer]
https://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/MI...10-01-2330.pdf
“...In the unlikely event of catastrophic engine failure in hover mode the F-35is equipped with an automatic ejection seat. This feature is only armed and available at the extremes of the vertical landing envelope. At first thought an auto-eject function seems extreme to most pilots, but once they are made aware of the time critical urgency and the total inability of the human to command a manual ejection during low altitude hover, most are thankful for this capability. This is a clear example of letting the computer do what computers do best....”
___________________________________
Martin-Baker: the JSF story so far 08 Mar 2011 Steve Roberts
JSG IPT Lead, Martin-Baker Aircraft Company Ltd - Synopsis of Lecture to RAeS Loughborough Branch
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.ol...JSF%20seat.pdf
"...A typical pilot takes two seconds to react to the ejection klaxon or one second if warned in advance of a likely failure. In the case of a STOVL related failure, ejection must take place within 0.6 seconds. Hence it was necessary to install smart failure sensors on the aircraft to automatically fire the ejection circuit mounted in the back of the seat....”
____________________________________
Test Flying The Joint Strike Fighter 17 June 2011 Graham Tomlinson
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/hawkerass...kefighter.html
“...In the unlikely event of the lift fan failing catastrophically the aircraft would pitch inverted in 0.6 seconds, and the pilot is protected by auto-ejection signalled by pitch rate and attitude...”
___________________________________
F-35 Subsystems Design, Development and Verification [by LM staff 2018]
Drew Robbins, John Bobalik, David De Stena, Ken Plag, Keith Rail, and Ken Wall
E. Ejection System...
...The auto-escape system is configured in the F-35B only for the event of catastrophic failure of the LiftFan®. Such a failure can produce a rapid onset of forward pitch accelerations, perhaps exceeding the pilot’s ability to react and manually eject. The system is designed to provide detection of inertial attitudes and rates in the pitch-down plane within tolerances to filter out normal flight control input and response. The detection occurs in the control law software application of each VMC [vehicle management computer] during conditions in which the system is armed."
F-35 Lightning II Cockpit Vision 19 Oct 2010 Michael Skaff [LM chief PVI Pilot Vehicle Interface Designer]
https://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/MI...10-01-2330.pdf
“...In the unlikely event of catastrophic engine failure in hover mode the F-35is equipped with an automatic ejection seat. This feature is only armed and available at the extremes of the vertical landing envelope. At first thought an auto-eject function seems extreme to most pilots, but once they are made aware of the time critical urgency and the total inability of the human to command a manual ejection during low altitude hover, most are thankful for this capability. This is a clear example of letting the computer do what computers do best....”
___________________________________
Martin-Baker: the JSF story so far 08 Mar 2011 Steve Roberts
JSG IPT Lead, Martin-Baker Aircraft Company Ltd - Synopsis of Lecture to RAeS Loughborough Branch
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.ol...JSF%20seat.pdf
"...A typical pilot takes two seconds to react to the ejection klaxon or one second if warned in advance of a likely failure. In the case of a STOVL related failure, ejection must take place within 0.6 seconds. Hence it was necessary to install smart failure sensors on the aircraft to automatically fire the ejection circuit mounted in the back of the seat....”
____________________________________
Test Flying The Joint Strike Fighter 17 June 2011 Graham Tomlinson
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/hawkerass...kefighter.html
“...In the unlikely event of the lift fan failing catastrophically the aircraft would pitch inverted in 0.6 seconds, and the pilot is protected by auto-ejection signalled by pitch rate and attitude...”
___________________________________
F-35 Subsystems Design, Development and Verification [by LM staff 2018]
Drew Robbins, John Bobalik, David De Stena, Ken Plag, Keith Rail, and Ken Wall
E. Ejection System...
...The auto-escape system is configured in the F-35B only for the event of catastrophic failure of the LiftFan®. Such a failure can produce a rapid onset of forward pitch accelerations, perhaps exceeding the pilot’s ability to react and manually eject. The system is designed to provide detection of inertial attitudes and rates in the pitch-down plane within tolerances to filter out normal flight control input and response. The detection occurs in the control law software application of each VMC [vehicle management computer] during conditions in which the system is armed."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 22nd Jan 2022 at 22:28. Reason: $ to 4
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,453
Likes: 0
Received 31 Likes
on
29 Posts
LOL - Cool BEens LAL - some more quotable quotes for STOVL MODE 4 auto eject:
Punching Out Jan 2021 IAN PARKER - Combat Aircraft Journal Jan 2021 Volume 22 No 1
“...Automatic ejections
With some F-35B aircraft failures, the aircraft departure characteristics could be too fast for the aircrew to react in time. Roberts says: “With Lockheed Martin, we carried out a lot of system modeling to determine which conditions the aircraft could get into where the aircrew are not able to eject in time.
Certain failure scenarios were identified, however unlikely, where the aircraft was transitioning to and from wingborne flight in the STOVL mode. These conditions would require the aircrew to eject quicker than the fastest recorded reaction times for most aircrew. Based on this, the F-35B introduced an automatic ejection capability for the very first time in the West.”
________________________________
When All Else Fails 22 Dec 2013 Mark Ayton ["outlines the life-saving ejection seat"]
[magazine special a decade or so ago about the F-35]
"...The STOVL aircraft propulsion configuration results in unique failure mode conditions, which the pilot is not able to react to quickly enough to eject manually. This resulted in the US16E seat interfacing with Lockheed Martin’s auto-eject system which caters for low-altitude, low-speed and adverse pitch attitude escape conditions...."
_______________________________
Martin-Baker: Saving Lives in the Family Way 15 Jun 2015 Chris Pocock
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...ves-family-way
"... the F-35B version of the Lightning II has an auto-eject mode. This is designed to function in the specific instance where the STOVL aircraft is in the hover, and the shaft-driven lift fan fails. In that case, the jet is likely to pitch down sharply, quicker than the pilot can react to fire the seat manually. It will therefore fire automatically while the possibility of escape remains...."
_______________________________
Jane’s features WFEL’s F35B ski jump’s involvement in HMS Queen Elizabeth trials Oct 2017 Richard Scott
https://www.wfel.com/en/news/janes-f...involveme/1008
"...QinetiQ flight test engineer Gordon Stewart, who has spent much of the last five years attached to the joint US/UK F-35 Integrated Test Force at Patuxent River, points out that making STOVL easy was an important design consideration for the F-35B control law. “Because of the high level of automation embodied, a ski-jump launch is in fact the most straightforward take-off manoeuvre for the STOVL variant of the Lightning II,” he explained to a Royal Aeronautical Society audience in May this year. “When the pilot slams the throttle, the control law is configuring the aircraft for maximum acceleration.”
At the point the aircraft accelerates up the ramp, the control law detects the change in pitch rate and attitude. “That’s the point where it transitions into ski-jump mode,” Stewart said. “Once that occurs, the aircraft has approximately one second to transition to flyaway.”
During that brief period, the control law is configuring the aircraft to minimise the pitch transient on exiting the ramp. It achieves this by setting the horizontal tail position, repositioning the angle of the engine nozzle, and changing the balance/rate of thrust between the lift fan and the aft nozzle. “The thrust split moves forward on the ramp, then back after exit,” said Stewart. “That rapid change in ratio to balance [the aircraft in airborne flight] reflects what’s happening coming off the ramp....”
_____________________________
F-35B begins new ski-ramp testing campaign c.18 Jul 2017
http://www.janes.com/article/72352/f-35 ... ign=buffer [lost right click for mouse?! - impossible to use Windows without RIGHT CLICKING!]]
"...[ Pete ‘Wizzer’ Wilson, BAE Systems F-35 STOVL lead test pilot] The F-35B flight control law mode incorporates a so-called Ski Jump Short Take Off (STO) Mode. There is no action on the part of the pilot to engage it, other than to ensure the aircraft is steered up the ski jump; rather, the mode is enabled when the Control Law detects the rotation and rotation rate as the aircraft accelerates up the ski jump."
__________________
F-35 Flight Testing At Pax 15 Oct 2012 Eric Hehs
F-35 Lightning II Flight Testing At NAS Patuxent River | Code One Magazine
"...The flight control laws for the STOVL variant have six modes that are associated with specific actuations. Mode 1 defines conventional flight. Mode 4 defines STOVL. The other four modes define transitional states between the two primary modes...."
Punching Out Jan 2021 IAN PARKER - Combat Aircraft Journal Jan 2021 Volume 22 No 1
“...Automatic ejections
With some F-35B aircraft failures, the aircraft departure characteristics could be too fast for the aircrew to react in time. Roberts says: “With Lockheed Martin, we carried out a lot of system modeling to determine which conditions the aircraft could get into where the aircrew are not able to eject in time.
Certain failure scenarios were identified, however unlikely, where the aircraft was transitioning to and from wingborne flight in the STOVL mode. These conditions would require the aircrew to eject quicker than the fastest recorded reaction times for most aircrew. Based on this, the F-35B introduced an automatic ejection capability for the very first time in the West.”
________________________________
When All Else Fails 22 Dec 2013 Mark Ayton ["outlines the life-saving ejection seat"]
[magazine special a decade or so ago about the F-35]
"...The STOVL aircraft propulsion configuration results in unique failure mode conditions, which the pilot is not able to react to quickly enough to eject manually. This resulted in the US16E seat interfacing with Lockheed Martin’s auto-eject system which caters for low-altitude, low-speed and adverse pitch attitude escape conditions...."
_______________________________
Martin-Baker: Saving Lives in the Family Way 15 Jun 2015 Chris Pocock
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...ves-family-way
"... the F-35B version of the Lightning II has an auto-eject mode. This is designed to function in the specific instance where the STOVL aircraft is in the hover, and the shaft-driven lift fan fails. In that case, the jet is likely to pitch down sharply, quicker than the pilot can react to fire the seat manually. It will therefore fire automatically while the possibility of escape remains...."
_______________________________
Jane’s features WFEL’s F35B ski jump’s involvement in HMS Queen Elizabeth trials Oct 2017 Richard Scott
https://www.wfel.com/en/news/janes-f...involveme/1008
"...QinetiQ flight test engineer Gordon Stewart, who has spent much of the last five years attached to the joint US/UK F-35 Integrated Test Force at Patuxent River, points out that making STOVL easy was an important design consideration for the F-35B control law. “Because of the high level of automation embodied, a ski-jump launch is in fact the most straightforward take-off manoeuvre for the STOVL variant of the Lightning II,” he explained to a Royal Aeronautical Society audience in May this year. “When the pilot slams the throttle, the control law is configuring the aircraft for maximum acceleration.”
At the point the aircraft accelerates up the ramp, the control law detects the change in pitch rate and attitude. “That’s the point where it transitions into ski-jump mode,” Stewart said. “Once that occurs, the aircraft has approximately one second to transition to flyaway.”
During that brief period, the control law is configuring the aircraft to minimise the pitch transient on exiting the ramp. It achieves this by setting the horizontal tail position, repositioning the angle of the engine nozzle, and changing the balance/rate of thrust between the lift fan and the aft nozzle. “The thrust split moves forward on the ramp, then back after exit,” said Stewart. “That rapid change in ratio to balance [the aircraft in airborne flight] reflects what’s happening coming off the ramp....”
_____________________________
F-35B begins new ski-ramp testing campaign c.18 Jul 2017
http://www.janes.com/article/72352/f-35 ... ign=buffer [lost right click for mouse?! - impossible to use Windows without RIGHT CLICKING!]]
"...[ Pete ‘Wizzer’ Wilson, BAE Systems F-35 STOVL lead test pilot] The F-35B flight control law mode incorporates a so-called Ski Jump Short Take Off (STO) Mode. There is no action on the part of the pilot to engage it, other than to ensure the aircraft is steered up the ski jump; rather, the mode is enabled when the Control Law detects the rotation and rotation rate as the aircraft accelerates up the ski jump."
__________________
F-35 Flight Testing At Pax 15 Oct 2012 Eric Hehs
F-35 Lightning II Flight Testing At NAS Patuxent River | Code One Magazine
"...The flight control laws for the STOVL variant have six modes that are associated with specific actuations. Mode 1 defines conventional flight. Mode 4 defines STOVL. The other four modes define transitional states between the two primary modes...."
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,453
Likes: 0
Received 31 Likes
on
29 Posts
2 page PDF from 2013 & VX-23 about measuring CVN WOD with an annannannaaemmeotobemmometer accuratetly beKuz youse PALS by LCDR Pat “WHO?” Bookey USN - spoiler alert - FWD is da bestest when they call the wind moriah.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 30th Jan 2022 at 10:19. Reason: two many aaaaaaaas
My brain hurts after a few pages. Everything is in past tense, and the pilot is not a he or she, but a they. So are some of the individual engineers, but not all of them. I haven't worked that one out yet! The investigation itself must have been easier than getting the strangled grammar right.
The following users liked this post:
The following users liked this post:
Thanks for that downsizer.
My brain hurts after a few pages. Everything is in past tense, and the pilot is not a he or she, but a they. So are some of the individual engineers, but not all of them. I haven't worked that one out yet! The investigation itself must have been easier than getting the strangled grammar right.
My brain hurts after a few pages. Everything is in past tense, and the pilot is not a he or she, but a they. So are some of the individual engineers, but not all of them. I haven't worked that one out yet! The investigation itself must have been easier than getting the strangled grammar right.
they've also blanked out identification of various bits of the ship (such as the lifts) which can be found in many publications - crazy...................
an interesting insight into the minds of "security"
an interesting insight into the minds of "security"
The following 3 users liked this post by sycamore:
I am simply amazed that non-fitment of the blanks whilst on deck could become an approved SOP.
OK the blanks are not good. Address the problem locally with short-term fix ( pushers string, shadow boards et al) and kick off up the chain. If not identified by the IFTU, SAT (Air), OST and FOCFT should all have been ideal vehicles to get the problem publicised.
N
OK the blanks are not good. Address the problem locally with short-term fix ( pushers string, shadow boards et al) and kick off up the chain. If not identified by the IFTU, SAT (Air), OST and FOCFT should all have been ideal vehicles to get the problem publicised.
N
That's actually quite reasonable. It avoids the cumbersome 'he/she'. And if you stick with gender-specific, and say 'she' when relevant, and there is only one female pilot in the group, it immediately identifies them. Which is not what is desired.
The following users liked this post:
This is yet another example of sledgehammers used for nut cracking. If your "Which is not what is desired" is indeed valid there have always been alternative options; "the pilot", "the controller", etc, without having to call every individual a "they". Perhaps this strangulation of the English language is more fitting in the Wigston legacy thread than in a UK military aviation air accident report?
The following 3 users liked this post by Chugalug2:
It's interesting to note that rather than being 'embeddded' the blanked out non-UK forces seem to have been very much doing their own thing. Perhaps why they were blanked out
The following users liked this post:
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
🧵following the release of the UK Ministry of Defence Service Enquiry into the loss of F35B Lightning ZM152 from HMS Queen Elizabeth during the Carrier Strike Group 2021 deployment. Focus for 🧵is on workforce issues, principally insufficient personnel leading to fatigue.
The UK F35 workforce was insufficiently resourced from inception. This has led to an inability to generate the required Operational Capability. This is not just about Pilots, it’s the entire workforce.….
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...727825408.html
The UK F35 workforce was insufficiently resourced from inception. This has led to an inability to generate the required Operational Capability. This is not just about Pilots, it’s the entire workforce.….
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...727825408.html
The UK F35 workforce isn't just insufficiently resourced, but struggling to retain SQEP after working themselves to death over a short tour with very little to show for it. The entire model needs re-working.
Jehovah
I realise I could be shot for saying this but as an outsider nowadays I can’t help thinking that the best solution for UK Armed Forces is to shrink.
We can’t afford to pay, house and equip what we have and we seem unable to recruit properly to fill the vacancies. I think it’d be better to have a smaller, better paid, better equipped and happier force that can do what it does well, instead of trying to always do too much with too little.
BV
We can’t afford to pay, house and equip what we have and we seem unable to recruit properly to fill the vacancies. I think it’d be better to have a smaller, better paid, better equipped and happier force that can do what it does well, instead of trying to always do too much with too little.
BV
The following 3 users liked this post by Bob Viking:
And stop pretending that we are a global player with a total armed forces strength of fewer than 150,000. (As an aside, the NHS employs 1.4 million and apparently needs more)
I always admired the Dutch, Danish, Norwegian air forces. They did a lot less than us, but they did it really well and all seemed to be pretty content with their lives, unlike us even in “my day”.
I always admired the Dutch, Danish, Norwegian air forces. They did a lot less than us, but they did it really well and all seemed to be pretty content with their lives, unlike us even in “my day”.
The following 2 users liked this post by Timelord:
I realise I could be shot for saying this but as an outsider nowadays I can’t help thinking that the best solution for UK Armed Forces is to shrink.
We can’t afford to pay, house and equip what we have and we seem unable to recruit properly to fill the vacancies. I think it’d be better to have a smaller, better paid, better equipped and happier force that can do what it does well, instead of trying to always do too much with too little.
BV
We can’t afford to pay, house and equip what we have and we seem unable to recruit properly to fill the vacancies. I think it’d be better to have a smaller, better paid, better equipped and happier force that can do what it does well, instead of trying to always do too much with too little.
BV
