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'The U.S.A has your back'...what does that mean?

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'The U.S.A has your back'...what does that mean?

Old 26th Aug 2021, 05:00
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Salute!

@Mark and for those of other nations.... Until we have a constitional amendment, the presedential elections do not depend upon the "popular' vote. If it did, then California, New York and maybe Florida would elect every president.

This current debacle is directly due to execution and lack of planning by the current folks. Three administrations have promised to get outta the 'stan, but nothing happened. So when the real withdrawal happens, it's up to the current admin and whatever players it uses to accomplish the mission. So far it looks like a classic CF, starting with departing Bagram.

Gums sends...

P.S. Stop me before I get too political or looking back at poly-ticks from those years 1965 to 1975.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 06:00
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Some of you folks would do better if you used much smaller brushes when you go to painting other folks.

Please also slow down and consider that you are talking about a government under the control of a less than popularly elected President.

Many of us do not care for him, his agenda, his ability or his fitness for office....and we damn sure do not approve of this debacle we see going on in Afghanistan.

The US Military exactly as the British Military receives its orders from a singular command authority and does its best to carry out those orders...even if they do not agree with them or approve of them.....that is just how it goes.

We see a monumental failure going on....point your finger where you wish....but do so in a manner that only the culpable are your targets.

Our Troops are carrying out the mission they were assigned on very short notice....under the Rules of Engagement and limitations placed upon them by their Command Authority.....in our system.....the President.....in this case.....Joe Biden.

Our Joint Chiefs are advisors.....not Commanders....that authority falls to the Operational Commanders.

I pray that one day the actual truth comes out that genuinely informs us of how this all came to be....and why so m any are going to suffer so badly because of all of this.

I am a Vietnam Veteran....and my Heart breaks for all of those who have fought and paid such a dear price for that service in Afghanistan....from all the Militaries that served there.

This is not the way it should have ended. We can debate why and how it began....but that is irrelevant today. How it is ending is what we should focus upon.

Just as Vietnam Veterans worked to ensure no other generation of Veteran should be treated as we were.....I also encourage Iraq and Aftghanistan Veterans to stand tall and be proud of their service during very difficult times....again....from all of the Militaries that have served in those Wars.

They did us all proud by their service....and have set the standard for those that shall follow them in the future.

Damn the politicians all you want....they deserve it....but do not sully those who bearded the Dragon in his Den....that just is not acceptable and should be chastised whenever encountered.

As long as we let old men send young men off to die in Wars of their making.....with no danger to themselves....we shall. continue to see such sad outcomes.

Joe Biden with fifty years in politics and a reputation for no grasp of foreign policy and a proven record of not caring for promises made to those who stand with us.....is the exact wrong Man in the wrong Office at exactly the wrong time.

He turned his back on the Vietnamese when that happened and now we see him doing the same thing to the Afghans.

I hope every person that voted for him or thought him the right person for the most powerful Office in the World.....looks themselves in the mirror every morning and thinks about that when they speak of the tragedy unfolding for Tens of Thousands of people....Men, Women, and Children.....in Afghanistan.

You were wrong then....and you are wrong today if you refuse to admit that to yourself.

Joe Biden and his Radical Ideologues in his Administration are destroying the Country and bringing immeasurable hardships upon its People.....the World has Three and a Half more Years to suffer through this Administration.

A lot of you asked for it.....now you got it....I hope you enjoy it.....because all of us are going to be paying for it some way or another .

We shall, just as assuredly as the people of Afghanistan are going to be doing as a result of Joe Biden's decisions.
Your president got more votes than any president in American history. Iíd say that makes him pretty popular.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 06:34
  #83 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BigDotStu View Post
France declined to send the engineers across to Argentina to help integrate the air-launched Exocets with the aircraft (although the Argentinian engineers managed to work it out themselves as they had previously had some training on it).
You are correct........they were already there.

"Behind the scenes, actions were speaking louder than words. In what would appear to be a clear breach of President Mitterrand's embargo, a French technical team - mainly working for a company 51% owned by the French government - stayed in Argentina throughout the war.In an interview carried out in 1982 by Sunday Times journalist Isabel Hilton, the team's leader, Herve Colin, admitted carrying out one particular test that proved invaluable to Argentinian forces.

"The verification process involves determining if the missile launcher was functioning correctly or not. Three of the launchers failed. We located the source of the problem and that was it. The rest was simple."

How France helped both sides in the Falklands War - BBC News
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 08:08
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
The US Military exactly as the British Military receives its orders from a singular command authority and does its best to carry out those orders...even if they do not agree with them or approve of them.....that is just how it goes.

We see a monumental failure going on....point your finger where you wish....but do so in a manner that only the culpable are your targets.
???
Do you see anyone here putting blame on the Armed Forces?
I think it is crystal clear for everyone that this CF originated in the Oval Office (plus several other Government Buildings around the globe). Supporters of the previous and current inhabitant may argue forver how exactly the share of responsibility for this desaster is between them.
One could argue that the timing of the Doha agreement led to a retreat in high fighting season and this didn't leave much room for a really 'good' outcome. What is pretty much undisputable ist the fact that the execution planning of the retreat was 'interesting' and one really wonders what the thought behind was and how it should have worked at least theoretically. And this is obviously the full responsibility of the current administration. And it is very clear that this was not the plan and idea (and even not the responsibility) of the military command. And I do not see anyone in this thread or the other one claiming otherwise.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 08:37
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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I might hazard to direct some blame towards the armed services......
Leaving aside the question of whether it is the right decision to leave (I happen to think it is) , there is the question of how to organise that departure. Allowing for the fact that the timetable was to a large degree forced on the military, the planning and arrangements thereafter are down to them, and do seem to have significantly contributed to the unfolding tragedy we are witnessing. It was never going to be easy or painless, but the images of people falling off of an airborne C-17 surely eclipse the iconic Huey over the embassy roof in Saigon shots. Pictures do speak a thousand words, and those images say all there is to say about US attitudes and priorities when push comes to shove. Sorry to be so negative about a friend.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 09:06
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No way we could win with Pakistan harboring the insurgents within their so called "tribal" areas. The stupidity is how much we assumed the Afghans would fight the Taliban on their own. It is remarkable how quickly they laid down their arms and ran away.
All of that was entirely predictable given that the legitimate leadership of Afghanistan was excluded from the talks that Trump carried out in 2018 - you know the ones, where he basically let the leaders of 200,000 heavily armed psychopaths out of jail in Pakistan, and did one of his famous "deals" with them. Question for you - if you were living in Afghanistan and were faced with that kind of force coming your way, would you feel very inclined to pick up a gun and fight? Perhaps rephrase that question as - would you pick up a gun and rapidly die? Lets face it, many Americans won't put a bit of cloth over their faces to save others so I think it's a bit rich that most of the US population (now experts on Middle East policy, in addition to being epidemiological geniuses) are suddenly blaming Afghans for running away. And that includes the President - his doubling down on the matter and refusal to accept any blame is utterly shameful.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 09:09
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by falcon900 View Post
I might hazard to direct some blame towards the armed services......
Leaving aside the question of whether it is the right decision to leave (I happen to think it is) , there is the question of how to organise that departure. Allowing for the fact that the timetable was to a large degree forced on the military, the planning and arrangements thereafter are down to them, and do seem to have significantly contributed to the unfolding tragedy we are witnessing. It was never going to be easy or painless, but the images of people falling off of an airborne C-17 surely eclipse the iconic Huey over the embassy roof in Saigon shots. Pictures do speak a thousand words, and those images say all there is to say about US attitudes and priorities when push comes to shove. Sorry to be so negative about a friend.
To be fair when you have thousands of innocent civilians, men, women, and children storming the airport trying to get out of the country what were the troops on the ground supposed to do? They canít open fire and they are heavily outnumbered with porous defences (itís an airport not fort knox. Mostly chain link fences).

Once the taliban reached the city there was no other way this could have played out. The mistake was not starting the evacuation months ago in an orderly fashion. With time to pre-screen everyone throughly.

You canít really blame the military. They are just providing the security and the transport. They arenít the ones placing names on a list. They are just checking the list. It wasnít up to the military to start the evacuation earlier. That was a political decision

When you say the planning and arrangements were left to them you are correct only for the military personnel. But they are already gone successfully. It is the other civilians that the military are now trying to evacuated over which they have very little control of.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 09:20
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Agreed, that goes back to the orignal planning by USA PLC, you evacuate the Civilians before the troops, not as the US decided, the other way around, that was not a military decision, the other thing they did was to send out Electronic Visa's to those eligible without identification on them i believe, people took screenshots, printed them off and flooded the airfield, hence the initial problems.

https://geeks-news.com/afghanistan-v...exit-deadline/

One reason for the chaos was the decision to issue electronic visas, without names or document numbers, to SIV applicants. The visas were then copied as screenshots and sent by Afghans to thousands of other Afghans who were not eligible for access to the airport, a source told CNN at the weekend.

“I don’t think consular, or the administration frankly, realizes how badly they f*****d up by sending that stupid visa and letting everyone in for 24 hours straight,” the source said Monday.
So those copying and forwarding them may have shot themselves in the foot and might have found they couldn't enter.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 10:13
  #89 (permalink)  
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Question for you - if you were living in Afghanistan and were faced with that kind of force coming your way, would you feel very inclined to pick up a gun and fight? Perhaps rephrase that question as - would you pick up a gun and rapidly die?
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 14:14
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As I thought it would, this thread has devolved into politics and name calling. I vote close it or move to jet blast, so I can ignore it.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 14:41
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Originally Posted by sandiego89 View Post
As I thought it would, this thread has devolved into politics and name calling. I vote close it or move to jet blast, so I can ignore it.
Considering the thread title is all about politics, and foreign policy, Iím really not sure what you were expecting?

Remember the vast majority of people that may be responding to this thread have no clue what category it is in. If you click into the thread from the main directory of newest posts there is no indication of the category.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 15:02
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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I hope I haven't been guilty of name calling.. I tried to avoid it and keep popping in posts to chill when folks get het up about something that is totally out of their control.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 15:07
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Originally Posted by XXmet View Post
I hear what you are saying. But the Afghans had 300,000 well armed soldiers that collapsed almost instantly. And yes, if it were MY country, I'd fight to the death even if I were the only one to do so, but not for them. Not after two decades of trying. They must fight for themselves. However you have good cause to criticize us harshly. I myself am still stunned at Donald Trump's four years of goofy stupidity and now Joe Biden's incompetence. To tell you the truth I don't know where all this internal American political BS will lead, but for the average citizen, I don't think we believe anymore that we are the world's experts on the "Middle East". There are no experts anywhere as far as I can tell.
I think the number was close to 120,000 troops as the depty defence minister reported, she said there were a lot of ghost troops, which they were attempting to stamp out, IE commanders claiming he had 50 troops when he had 25 and then pocketing the wages of the other none existant 25. A lot of Afghan soldiers had been dying for their country, over 70,000 soldiers. we do not critise you at all, simply the incompentence leading you down this path, and that buck stops at the top.. I feel for your troops being lead by the "Donkeys* in Washington, who are playing political games with peoples lives.

*Name call 1 sorry.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 15:14
  #94 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by sandiego89 View Post
As I thought it would, this thread has devolved into politics and name calling. I vote close it or move to jet blast, so I can ignore it.
JB already has a thread.
At the moment, I'll leave this one open even though I share your frustration with some of the politically based posts.
The last two decades in Afghanistan certainly illustrate how the use of the military tool by political decision makers can play out.
Most of the contributors to this forum have had the chance to work with allies thanks to how military aviation works in this day and age.
A lot of serving air crew, and ground crew, from various NATO nations have contributed to air support and air operations in Afghanistan - be it under ISAF or another political framework.
On top of that, allies like the Kiwis and Aussies had people in Afghanistan but are not in NATO.

I will ask posters to focus more on the Military and Aviation aspects of the topic, please.
That most military professionals probably feel sick as they see what is going on seems a fair assumption.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 15:17
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Interesting debate

An engaging thread title.

we all know the ďhistoryĒ of the USA in Dubbya Dubbya 1 and 2, we can look at aspects or look at it holistically. We can interpret things how we want, to confirm our own opinions.

It is without doubt, horrible what is happening in a theatre that a lot of us here, spent time in. Not all came back and not all came back whole.

However, back to the thread title. As much Iíll take the Mickey out of the Seppoís, Iím very grateful and proud to have worked alongside them.

We can talk about the mistakes/errors and failings, and also, sadly, history repeating itself. However, a bigger and worse piece of history has already started itís replay. Ze Weepingís facade of a government, with no popular vote is hell bent on replicating (and in their minds - perfecting) the worst part of the 20th century. By jingoís, we (the free people) are goi g to need each other soon enough, regardless of the failings of our democratically elected governments. Stay safe Mingaís.
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Old 26th Aug 2021, 15:22
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Originally Posted by T28B View Post
JB already has a thread.
At the moment, I'll leave this one open even though I share your frustration with some of the politically based posts.
The last two decades in Afghanistan certainly illustrate how the use of the military tool by political decision makers can play out.
Most of the contributors to this forum have had the chance to work with allies thanks to how military aviation works in this day and age.
A lot of serving air crew, and ground crew, from various NATO nations have contributed to air support and air operations in Afghanistan - be it under ISAF or another political framework.
On top of that, allies like the Kiwis and Aussies had people in Afghanistan but are not in NATO.

I will ask posters to focus more on the Military and Aviation aspects of the topic, please.
That most military professionals probably feel sick as they see what is going on seems a fair assumption.
I would suggest changing the thread title then. As the title has nothing to do with the military, and is pure politics, and foreign policy.
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