INCIDENT AT VALLEY
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People keep complaining about the photographer so I thought I'd say my thoughts as a keen amateur photographer, a lot appears to revolve around the RAF's request, well it is just that, a request, copyright belongs to the photographer and rightly or wrongly it is up to him to decide what happens to his images.
Yes, he has sold then via an agency to the press and so is making money from them, but that does not mean he hasn't also provided them to the RAF to assist in their investigation.
Photography is a double edged sword and an expensive one at that, I currently own over 20K's worth of camera equipment and I am just an amateur, a lot of you probably are unaware a single lens can cost 10k though the most I have paid is about half that. Without people funding their hobby and spending time at the fence, the RAF would have nothing image wise to assist them, hence the double edge sword, would I have provided my images to the RAF and AAIB, undoubtably yes, but that's the ex RAF / Aircraft Engineer in me, would I consider selling any of them, that's a hard one, possibly as long as they do not include and distressing scenes, but in this case probably no.
Back to the photographer involved, I do not know his financial status, so the thousand or so he may get per image could well be life changing for him and I do not begrudge him that, and if he has provided the images then they will be of valuable assistance to the inquiry. With out the likes of him they would have none.
As for the Daily Fail printing them, end of the day they are a newspaper and that is what they do no matter how odious we see it personally, on the same note the BBC was running the film on their website of the Uber cab right up to it hitting the victim.
Yes, he has sold then via an agency to the press and so is making money from them, but that does not mean he hasn't also provided them to the RAF to assist in their investigation.
Photography is a double edged sword and an expensive one at that, I currently own over 20K's worth of camera equipment and I am just an amateur, a lot of you probably are unaware a single lens can cost 10k though the most I have paid is about half that. Without people funding their hobby and spending time at the fence, the RAF would have nothing image wise to assist them, hence the double edge sword, would I have provided my images to the RAF and AAIB, undoubtably yes, but that's the ex RAF / Aircraft Engineer in me, would I consider selling any of them, that's a hard one, possibly as long as they do not include and distressing scenes, but in this case probably no.
Back to the photographer involved, I do not know his financial status, so the thousand or so he may get per image could well be life changing for him and I do not begrudge him that, and if he has provided the images then they will be of valuable assistance to the inquiry. With out the likes of him they would have none.
As for the Daily Fail printing them, end of the day they are a newspaper and that is what they do no matter how odious we see it personally, on the same note the BBC was running the film on their website of the Uber cab right up to it hitting the victim.
....I do not know his financial status, so the thousand or so he may get per image could well be life changing for him and I do not begrudge him that, and if he has provided the images then they will be of valuable assistance to the inquiry. With out the likes of him they would have none.
Last edited by XV490; 22nd Mar 2018 at 20:10.
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So Nutloose, because you’ve voluntarily chosen to spend 20k on your own hobby, that allows you to completely lose your moral compass and cause uncountable distress to families of a dead serviceman so that you can regain a small fraction of the cost of a new lens? Of course not. And I very much doubt that he’s received the 1k per photo that you quote... he’s sold himself out for a much smaller sum of money.
Personally, following this I would love to see the closing down of the spotter’s car park and a ban on jets through the mach loop
Personally, following this I would love to see the closing down of the spotter’s car park and a ban on jets through the mach loop
As for the Mach Loop, it is not used for public entertainment and if usage stops, the fast jet users will lose training experiance.
Again the identity of the individual needs to be exposed so all and sundry know who he is.
...a ban on jets through the mach loop
As to the photographer, making money out of this in any way is just wrong. Anyone with a moral compass doesn't need to be told this.
Again the identity of the individual needs to be exposed so all and sundry know who he is.
...but that does not mean he hasn't also provided them to the RAF to assist in their investigation.
I believe the Tornado command ejection was brought about during early testing of the Aircraft, if I remember rightly they were up on an Test Flight over the North Sea and an incident occurred ( birdstrike? ) disabling the front seater , the aircraft was in a shallow descent and the rear seater stuck it talking to the pilot hoping he would start to respond until at low height he was forced to bang out leaving the poor guy to his fate. The command ejection came about from that incident. Or am I getting confused?
I was thinking of a different incident NutLoose. I believe it was a LL sortie through valleys. The Nav/WSO dropped something on the floor and bent to pick it up-as he was getting up at a funny angle he saw the side of a mountain looming large-he concluded in the split second he had that the pilot had lost control and initiated a command ejection (details may not be 100% accurate, but something approximating it)?
Hang on a minute guys; are you telling me that none of you watched any of the images/video of the Shoreham Hunter, or am I missing something? Anyone happen to see the newsreel film of John Derry and Tony Richards succumb in the DH110? What about XV770 at Syerston?
Yes, a tragic accident with a loss of life, but surely you can't expect these images to remain out of the public domain?
Yes, a tragic accident with a loss of life, but surely you can't expect these images to remain out of the public domain?
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As I said, would I sell them, no. Would I sell any image that I find could cause distress, no. I realise what I said would be seen as controversial, but what I was trying to get across was day in day out we are confronted with images like this in the press, the Uber taxi being an example.
To say we should close viewing areas because of such things is wrong plain and simple, those that stand at the fence are, and no, I am not one of them, a valuable source of video and photographic material when things like this go wrong, they are often seen at Civil airports as an extra layer of security too, as they may notice unusual activity. I incidentally do not remember such a knee jerk reaction when the shots of the impact at Shoreham were published.
To say we should close viewing areas because of such things is wrong plain and simple, those that stand at the fence are, and no, I am not one of them, a valuable source of video and photographic material when things like this go wrong, they are often seen at Civil airports as an extra layer of security too, as they may notice unusual activity. I incidentally do not remember such a knee jerk reaction when the shots of the impact at Shoreham were published.
HP - agreed. But with this incident the RAF quickly made a tweeted plea to be "sensitive". And this was certainly no airshow.
The wording on this page is revealing.
The wording on this page is revealing.
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Treble One, was it not a Tornado over the German plains, they had previously warned crews of uncommanded departure after one had flown near a mast, the German one if I remember correctly, was at low level when the pilot saw an A-10? In front of them and pulled hard to avoid it without time to alert the backseater who had been distracted, and thinking it was an uncommanded departure, ejected, unfortunately the seat was set to command so the pilot left too.
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Exactly, for all anyone knows he may well have donated the monies gained.
Treble One, was it not a Tornado over the German plains, they had previously warned crews of uncommanded departure after one had flown near a mast, the German one if I remember correctly, was at low level when the pilot saw an A-10? In front of them and pulled hard to avoid it without time to alert the backseater who had been distracted, and thinking it was an uncommanded departure, ejected, unfortunately the seat was set to command so the pilot left too.
That is the one NutLoose-thanks for the correction. Quite a well known chap flying it IIRC?
Treble One, was it not a Tornado over the German plains, they had previously warned crews of uncommanded departure after one had flown near a mast, the German one if I remember correctly, was at low level when the pilot saw an A-10? In front of them and pulled hard to avoid it without time to alert the backseater who had been distracted, and thinking it was an uncommanded departure, ejected, unfortunately the seat was set to command so the pilot left too.
Not German, but it was an RAF Tornado, ZA603 in the mid-80s.
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Yes sorry re reading it sounds as if I was referring to a German Tornado, whenI was simply trying to put it in the country it happened in.
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I believe the Tornado command ejection was brought about during early testing of the Aircraft, if I remember rightly they were up on an Test Flight over the North Sea and an incident occurred ( birdstrike? ) disabling the front seater , the aircraft was in a shallow descent and the rear seater stuck it talking to the pilot hoping he would start to respond until at low height he was forced to bang out leaving the poor guy to his fate. The command ejection came about from that incident. Or am I getting confused?
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That may well have been it, Age is catching up with the brain cells, I remember reading it in air clues? I have been looking through the accidents on Tonkas on the web and cannot find it, such a sad way to go 
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No problem, very vivid to me having been there, please check F4 losses IIRC the crash site is listed as the bell rock area.
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Spent 3 happy weeks picking up and sifting through tiny little pieces of Tonka, unfortunately someone sent the sib to control "sensitive" material, that
the fun times up....
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Nutloose are you sure this is not the F4 incident from Leuchars around 1988? you describe in good detail in reference to the Nav trying to talk to him and the shallow dive but there was no birdstrike as the Pilot had suffered a stroke, it was my profound honour to be in charge of the VAS nightshift when his body was recovered (By 22 sqn) we stopped all personnel and A/C movements and offered the decease the respect he deserved. Brought back a flood of memories I was also part of the honour guard when the cortege came through Leuchars for the burial at Leuchars cemetery.
So Nutloose, because you’ve voluntarily chosen to spend 20k on your own hobby, that allows you to completely lose your moral compass and cause uncountable distress to families of a dead serviceman
