Air Training Corps – Then and Now
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Air Training Corps – Then and Now
I was an ATC cadet in latter 50’s before entering the Air Force as a Boy Entrant at only a little over the age of 15; I’ve been involved with aviation ever since. When I joined the ATC my squadron was lacking an instructor for the .303 Browning, a curriculum subject in those days. My father had served as an Air Gunner in WW2 (Tail End Charlie on Lancasters) so I approached my CO putting forward my father as a candidate to fill the void. The CO pounced on the opportunity and before he realized what had happened, father was enlisted a civilian instructor on the squadron. By the time I shipped out to become a Boy Entrant, father was the civilian adjutant; later to be commissioned and ultimately the Squadron Commander. I have happy memories of my ATC days and follow with interest, from a distance, changes in the organization. Squadron facilities seem to have improved, as has the rather dreadful uniform and the addition of the fairer sex adds a new dimension. The uniformed instructor rank system seems to have changed significantly while the content of “summer camps” seems to have diluted. Flying and gliding training has been restructured while “air experience flights” seem to have almost withered on a tree. I think there will be many in this forum with ATC experience and perspectives. I’m (hopefully) inviting a general discussion on the merit of changes in the organization and also any experiences that may be offered, humorous tales especially welcome. I have no particular agenda except to be interested in getting a better feel for all the water that has passed under the bridge and enjoying the odd yarn.
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My observations as a Civilian Instructor on my local Squadron is that today the Air Training Corps is a youth movement for young people which prepares them for life and not just a recruitment tool for the RAF.
This rationale is much more in line with life in the 21st Century with a contraction of the RAF and consequent vacancies few and far between.
There is a wide ranging scale of activities suited to young people which equips them for the experiences of further education and the working environment in addition to the military lifestyle
If they have an interest specifically in Aviation it can be accounted for by utilizing other sources and not just military ones, for example I have just spent the day with our local cadets as guests of the Shropshire Aero Club at Sleap Aerodrome who made them very welcome and allowed them to visit all the facilities including the various club aircraft whilst watching the annual Golding-Barrett Aerobatic Trophy.
Please don't worry about the future of the Air Training Corps as it is in safe hands with dedicated cadets and staff and I, as an adult have to say it is a privilege to be associated with such fine young people.
This rationale is much more in line with life in the 21st Century with a contraction of the RAF and consequent vacancies few and far between.
There is a wide ranging scale of activities suited to young people which equips them for the experiences of further education and the working environment in addition to the military lifestyle
If they have an interest specifically in Aviation it can be accounted for by utilizing other sources and not just military ones, for example I have just spent the day with our local cadets as guests of the Shropshire Aero Club at Sleap Aerodrome who made them very welcome and allowed them to visit all the facilities including the various club aircraft whilst watching the annual Golding-Barrett Aerobatic Trophy.
Please don't worry about the future of the Air Training Corps as it is in safe hands with dedicated cadets and staff and I, as an adult have to say it is a privilege to be associated with such fine young people.
For those who are interested, Ray Kidd has written a history of the ATC ('Horizons - The History of the Air Cadets').
Know Ray through my own past with the ATC. Living legend doesn't do him justice.
News article here
Know Ray through my own past with the ATC. Living legend doesn't do him justice.
News article here
This is going to sound terribly like smoke-blowing, but I've encountered groups of air cadets on a few occasions and always been impressed. My line of work means I'm often out and about with a big, noticeable broadcast camera on my shoulder, which generally attracts attention of the "hello, mum" variety. On one occasion I was shooting at an event where some members of the ATC were in attendance and in contrast to the norm they took an interest, approached, patiently and politely asked questions and ended up getting a brief lesson in camera operation (with, of course, permission from their terrifying flight sergeant).
I'm not a big fan of kids, ordinarily, Good grief, I remember thinking, teenagers I don't immediately dislike (scouts are, in my experience, not nearly as pleasant a group of people).
You really do have to do something about the awful skirt-and-sensible-shoes combo on the girls, though. They look rough enough on actual RAF women, where they tend to at least fit, let alone kids. It doesn't look smart, it doesn't look martial, it just looks like a poorly-funded 1950s reenactment group.
P
I'm not a big fan of kids, ordinarily, Good grief, I remember thinking, teenagers I don't immediately dislike (scouts are, in my experience, not nearly as pleasant a group of people).
You really do have to do something about the awful skirt-and-sensible-shoes combo on the girls, though. They look rough enough on actual RAF women, where they tend to at least fit, let alone kids. It doesn't look smart, it doesn't look martial, it just looks like a poorly-funded 1950s reenactment group.
P
Not enough flying now - nowhere near enough. Desperately false economy by the Governments (UK & Canada). I've been volunteering with the local Sea Cadets recently -at least they get to sail a lot.
1122 (Marmion) Squadron was my initiation to military perspective. Coming from a small Staffordshire village which offered the option of work on the local farms, or leave. As a young lad I was fascinated by Biggles, the Dambusters and all the other tales of derring do of the Royal Air Force. Luckily, between working as a lad on the farm, going to school, playing trombone in the school band, my mother had the time to drive me to the ATC on a Friday night, and collect me later (I usually had to be up at 0400 on Saturday to get the cows in for milking). You will no doubt be wondering what all this rambling is on about. Well, 1122 (Marmion) Squadron made a big enough impression on me to make me apply for a Halton Apprenticeship, which I got, and never regretted. Chipmunk flying from Shawbury, gliding at Tern Hill. Summer Camp at RAF Ouston, all still happy memories of my days as a member. Its nice to hear that the ATC still operates, and good that it serves a wider base than in my day, when a love of RAF history, and its aircraft was key. Good luck for the future to all, but Particularly 1122 Squadron, Staffordshire's finest IMHO.
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My middle daughter is now 23 and was in the ATC for six years from 11 to 17.
She flew plenty: gliding, AEF and in service aircraft. She went on several camps and attained all three Duke of Edinburgh awards. She gained considerable awareness, both of others and herself, discovered and developed an ability to motivate and organise people, and represented the Wing at swimming and running, as well as playing football and hockey at squadron level.
The all round personal capability and capacity that she built up propelled her to spend seven months traveling the world after her A-levels, entirely self-funded. She now has a very good 2.1 from Bristol and is teaching English in a remote town in Equador.
I'd say the ATC was doing pretty well.
She flew plenty: gliding, AEF and in service aircraft. She went on several camps and attained all three Duke of Edinburgh awards. She gained considerable awareness, both of others and herself, discovered and developed an ability to motivate and organise people, and represented the Wing at swimming and running, as well as playing football and hockey at squadron level.
The all round personal capability and capacity that she built up propelled her to spend seven months traveling the world after her A-levels, entirely self-funded. She now has a very good 2.1 from Bristol and is teaching English in a remote town in Equador.
I'd say the ATC was doing pretty well.
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I was a civilian instructor back in the 70s. No girlies then though 
I taught radio and radar. The only exam I failed on my ATPL
Got 100% on the re-take, I refuse to say how I achieved that
I taught radio and radar. The only exam I failed on my ATPL
Got 100% on the re-take, I refuse to say how I achieved that
I too was in the ATC. I still have my F3822 ! I was in 2214 Usworth Sqn conveniently located across the road from the then RAF Usworth. My pal worked their as a 'tarmac hand' before he joined the RAF. So I always got a 'heads up' whenever there was flying to be had. I also earned 'my keep' by cleaning the a/c etc. I did so much flying that some of the other cadets complained. So the CO forbade me to fly without his permission. On the advice of one of the DUAS instructors I still flew but always 'forgot' to get my F3822 signed.
In those days flying was still an adventure but kids have been to the moon and back from their armchairs and there are innumerable other distractions.
In those days flying was still an adventure but kids have been to the moon and back from their armchairs and there are innumerable other distractions.
Smujsmith might like to know that 1122 (Tamworth) Sqn ATC is alive and (generally) well and living in Moor Street Tamworth. It is one of the 32 squadrons in the Staffordshire Wing ATC, whose 'footprint' extends from Buxton down into the West Midlands.
I joined as a cadet in 1958 and moved on to the RAF in 1963. After 31 years, during which time I was Air Cadets Liaison Officer at several units, I left regular service and went back to being a civilian volunteer and then returned to uniform as a VR(T) officer. Much to my surprise and despite my antiquity, I was 'signed on' for another year recently.
The cadet forces are a wonderful group of youth organisations and the regular forces love them. Former members who join the armed forces are easier to train, more willing to conform, have lower attrition rates in training, better pass rates, remain longer and generally cause less trouble, than those with no previous cadet experience. Whatever they do, they frequently outshine supposedly better candidates. How many teenagers going for a job interview can boast a Gold DofE, four BTECs, a Sports Leadership award and - oh by the way - have soloed in a glider, just returned from an overseas camp or expedition and wear the red lanyard from the Junior Leaders Course. I wish I could start all over again!!!
The cadet forces, however, need adults to make it happen. So whether you are ex-service or not, why not search out your nearest cadet centre and as the TV game show slogan used to say - come on down!
Old Duffer
I joined as a cadet in 1958 and moved on to the RAF in 1963. After 31 years, during which time I was Air Cadets Liaison Officer at several units, I left regular service and went back to being a civilian volunteer and then returned to uniform as a VR(T) officer. Much to my surprise and despite my antiquity, I was 'signed on' for another year recently.
The cadet forces are a wonderful group of youth organisations and the regular forces love them. Former members who join the armed forces are easier to train, more willing to conform, have lower attrition rates in training, better pass rates, remain longer and generally cause less trouble, than those with no previous cadet experience. Whatever they do, they frequently outshine supposedly better candidates. How many teenagers going for a job interview can boast a Gold DofE, four BTECs, a Sports Leadership award and - oh by the way - have soloed in a glider, just returned from an overseas camp or expedition and wear the red lanyard from the Junior Leaders Course. I wish I could start all over again!!!
The cadet forces, however, need adults to make it happen. So whether you are ex-service or not, why not search out your nearest cadet centre and as the TV game show slogan used to say - come on down!
Old Duffer
Old-Duffer:
I think that you have summed up very well the major difference in the cadet force you first joined and today's organisation. Then, the large majority of adults had service experience, now they are in a minority. One could argue that this in keeping with the change of role in 1962(?) from pre-service training organisation to MoD sponsored youth organisation and the later withdrawal of the then Inspectorate of Recruiting (IoR) from its direct involvement with the cadet forces. The character of the cadet forces has changed quite significantly over the years.
One has to question whether the current models are the correct and appropriate in today's environment. The ACF, ATC and SCC have quite different structures. The CCF stands apart from the other three. There really is a case for a common model and maybe even a more "Joint" approach to the cadet forces. A looser system more akin to the SCC may even appeal given the MoD's almost total aversion to any risk in this field.
YS
Former members who join the armed forces are easier to train, more willing to conform, have lower attrition rates in training, better pass rates, remain longer and generally cause less trouble, than those with no previous cadet experience.
One has to question whether the current models are the correct and appropriate in today's environment. The ACF, ATC and SCC have quite different structures. The CCF stands apart from the other three. There really is a case for a common model and maybe even a more "Joint" approach to the cadet forces. A looser system more akin to the SCC may even appeal given the MoD's almost total aversion to any risk in this field.
YS
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I've fond memories of looping in Chipmunks, firing a bolt action .303 converted to .22, trying to memorise all the different types of aircraft the RAF had back then and camps to Bruggen and Laarbruch.
In might be testament to the RAF's training, but my opinion differs... I find it difficult to guess who in the RAF was an Air Cadet and who wasn't. From my experiences, after a few weeks everyone in the RAF was at the same standard.
Former members who join the armed forces are easier to train, more willing to conform, have lower attrition rates in training, better pass rates, remain longer and generally cause less trouble, than those with no previous cadet experience.
In might be testament to the RAF's training, but my opinion differs... I find it difficult to guess who in the RAF was an Air Cadet and who wasn't. From my experiences, after a few weeks everyone in the RAF was at the same standard.
rgds LR
GR4techie
Sorry I was not talking about work attitude per se but more along the lines that ex ATC cadets are generally aircraft enthusiasts and keen on the flying side,where I work has probably the highest percentage of enthusiasts I have ever worked with but that is still probably only maybe 5% of the workforce.
In my experience the great majority of engineering techs etc have no real interest in flying !
Sorry I was not talking about work attitude per se but more along the lines that ex ATC cadets are generally aircraft enthusiasts and keen on the flying side,where I work has probably the highest percentage of enthusiasts I have ever worked with but that is still probably only maybe 5% of the workforce.
In my experience the great majority of engineering techs etc have no real interest in flying !
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What encouraging replies so far, all generally positive and nice to read; thanks to those who have replied thus far. The comments and observations all have their individual slant and most suggest the ATC is very much alive and well, albeit with a broader horizon.
While the source does not steam from my most favourite newspaper, the following link documents a tale of fortitude, grit and determination while at the same time providing a good example of the broader social perspective the ATC now brings to the table by catering to the goals and vision held by a very plucky young lady.
A personal experience of days gone by: I was really desperate to get a “jet flight” during a summer camp at Shawbury but, was told all available slots taken, I was however given one of those “nudge nudge wink wink” hints that said were I to be in a position the following Monday ASAP then PERHAPS. I lived in Cheshire so at 0 dark hundred the following Monday donned my uniform and successfully hitchhiked back to Shawbury and presenting myself once more; before I knew what was happening I found myself being briefed by a rather elderly Polish flight sergeant before wandering out to a Meteor T7 for the first of TWO trips that morning. I was able to hitch back home in reasonable time to confess what I had been up to. I was told I was walking around like the cat that licked the cream for days ! I doubt that sort of flexibility would be available today (more's the pity).
While the source does not steam from my most favourite newspaper, the following link documents a tale of fortitude, grit and determination while at the same time providing a good example of the broader social perspective the ATC now brings to the table by catering to the goals and vision held by a very plucky young lady.
A personal experience of days gone by: I was really desperate to get a “jet flight” during a summer camp at Shawbury but, was told all available slots taken, I was however given one of those “nudge nudge wink wink” hints that said were I to be in a position the following Monday ASAP then PERHAPS. I lived in Cheshire so at 0 dark hundred the following Monday donned my uniform and successfully hitchhiked back to Shawbury and presenting myself once more; before I knew what was happening I found myself being briefed by a rather elderly Polish flight sergeant before wandering out to a Meteor T7 for the first of TWO trips that morning. I was able to hitch back home in reasonable time to confess what I had been up to. I was told I was walking around like the cat that licked the cream for days ! I doubt that sort of flexibility would be available today (more's the pity).
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358 squadron from 1986 to 1990.
ALL we ever did was bloody drill again and again. Apart from 1990 when we got to go to Oshkosh, flying from Mildenhall to Dover AFB on a C5 Galaxy.
That was fair compensation for all the drill!
Forward winding to now, we get the local cadets to clean our aircraft and all are polite and well-behaved young types. Restores my faith in the future etc.
ALL we ever did was bloody drill again and again. Apart from 1990 when we got to go to Oshkosh, flying from Mildenhall to Dover AFB on a C5 Galaxy.
That was fair compensation for all the drill!
Forward winding to now, we get the local cadets to clean our aircraft and all are polite and well-behaved young types. Restores my faith in the future etc.
84 Squadron based at Coventry (Baginton) airport in the early eighties. Rose to the heady rank of First Class cadet and came first in the annual aircraft recognition contest one year. Went gliding at Little Rissington once.
I remember that all the cadets were there because they wanted to join the RAF. I did too, but the cadets made me realise that me and the military weren't going to get on. Ironically, one lad in my class at school is now an Air Cdre and I don't remember him being in the ATC.
I remember that all the cadets were there because they wanted to join the RAF. I did too, but the cadets made me realise that me and the military weren't going to get on. Ironically, one lad in my class at school is now an Air Cdre and I don't remember him being in the ATC.
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144 (Richmond) Sqn, which I joined after leaving school and the CCF. Subsequently, briefly, a CI before heading for OCTU and the 'real world'
Sadly my F3822 is a few thousand miles away, as I'm in the USA right now. All I can enumerate for now is many happy days (and nights) that gave me a serious focus when the temptations of Richmond, Surrey, in the Swinging 60s might have led me severely astray!! I may be inspired to do a Danny42C story when I get home early next month, if this thread is still running.
I know I gained many benefits from the ATC. I believe the ATC made me a much better person in the process.
Sadly my F3822 is a few thousand miles away, as I'm in the USA right now. All I can enumerate for now is many happy days (and nights) that gave me a serious focus when the temptations of Richmond, Surrey, in the Swinging 60s might have led me severely astray!! I may be inspired to do a Danny42C story when I get home early next month, if this thread is still running.
I know I gained many benefits from the ATC. I believe the ATC made me a much better person in the process.
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2381 (Ilminster) Sqn late 70s. Taught me an awful lot. COs ex-RAF Airfield Construction Service and ex-FAA Corsair pilot. 2 I/c ex-Blues & Royals, so we were pretty good at drill. My first F3822 even had the wrong date of birth so that I could fly from Filton the weekend after I joined..
Besides the usual Summer Camps (Binbrook in 76 is the one of which I have the fondest memories), AEF, Gliding, D of E, sport, Wing a/c recce and so forth, we sent teams to the Nijmegen marches most years (and what a great experience that was - especially the way the regulars of all nations treated us). We manned the VIP enclosure at the Silver Jubilee airshow at Exeter so I got to meet the Reds and sit in the cockpit of a BBMF Spitfire PR XXIX. We even had a co-located GVC unit towards the end of the decade - what was there not to like? Making it to CWO didn't do any harm at OASC time, either.
Delighted to hear that the Corps has evolved to keep itself relevant to today's generation. Every time I see current cadets in action, whether helping out at airshows, at parades or up to something else in public they are a credit to their uniform and help to restore my faith in the youth of today. Let's hope that, like so many of the posters on this forum, they will be able to look back years later with so many fond memories. Long may the Organisation continue to prosper.
Besides the usual Summer Camps (Binbrook in 76 is the one of which I have the fondest memories), AEF, Gliding, D of E, sport, Wing a/c recce and so forth, we sent teams to the Nijmegen marches most years (and what a great experience that was - especially the way the regulars of all nations treated us). We manned the VIP enclosure at the Silver Jubilee airshow at Exeter so I got to meet the Reds and sit in the cockpit of a BBMF Spitfire PR XXIX. We even had a co-located GVC unit towards the end of the decade - what was there not to like? Making it to CWO didn't do any harm at OASC time, either.
Delighted to hear that the Corps has evolved to keep itself relevant to today's generation. Every time I see current cadets in action, whether helping out at airshows, at parades or up to something else in public they are a credit to their uniform and help to restore my faith in the youth of today. Let's hope that, like so many of the posters on this forum, they will be able to look back years later with so many fond memories. Long may the Organisation continue to prosper.