Air Cadets grounded?
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Vigilant
In defence of the Vigilant motor glider, some consider powered flying to be more civilised than conventional gliding. That's a real attraction for potential volunteers with extensive civilian flying experience.
Advantages of the Vigilant:
(1) Cockpit heating
(2) Throttle lever
(3) VGS staff and cadets get to sit in warm caravan while sortie is underway - no muddy knees or cut fingers!
I can see some advantages of Vikings in terms of keeping cadets busy and involved, but over all I think Vigilants are more productive than Vikings when it comes to completing sorties. It's already been mentioned that the return to flying is likely to come with a drastic reduction in staff numbers. If Vigilants do go and squadrons are relocated/merged, then it'll be a shame. The ACO will lose a lot of highly qualified and experienced people. Let's not forget that CGIs are typically professional people in their day jobs. I know many who are PhD students, aeronautical engineers, PPLs, ATPLs etc. Will those CGIs become CIs when their local VGS is relocated? Not likely. I don't understand why QGIs and PPLs/CPLs/ATPLs can be trained to fly Tutors with their local AEF squadron. Powered flying should remain a part of the ATC experience.
Advantages of the Vigilant:
(1) Cockpit heating
(2) Throttle lever
(3) VGS staff and cadets get to sit in warm caravan while sortie is underway - no muddy knees or cut fingers!
I can see some advantages of Vikings in terms of keeping cadets busy and involved, but over all I think Vigilants are more productive than Vikings when it comes to completing sorties. It's already been mentioned that the return to flying is likely to come with a drastic reduction in staff numbers. If Vigilants do go and squadrons are relocated/merged, then it'll be a shame. The ACO will lose a lot of highly qualified and experienced people. Let's not forget that CGIs are typically professional people in their day jobs. I know many who are PhD students, aeronautical engineers, PPLs, ATPLs etc. Will those CGIs become CIs when their local VGS is relocated? Not likely. I don't understand why QGIs and PPLs/CPLs/ATPLs can be trained to fly Tutors with their local AEF squadron. Powered flying should remain a part of the ATC experience.
CZ
For undergraduate geologists, lecture halls are no doubt 'more civilised' than field trips. There are many other analagous situatuons. There is much more to being an effective pilot (or to enjoying the ATC Cadet experience) than is learned only by sitting in an airframe.
For me, flying in anything I could blag a ride in, and my A&B in 1960 at Kirton Lindsey VGS were the main reason I became an ATC Cadet, but I gained a great deal of other experience that has served me well ever since.
For undergraduate geologists, lecture halls are no doubt 'more civilised' than field trips. There are many other analagous situatuons. There is much more to being an effective pilot (or to enjoying the ATC Cadet experience) than is learned only by sitting in an airframe.
For me, flying in anything I could blag a ride in, and my A&B in 1960 at Kirton Lindsey VGS were the main reason I became an ATC Cadet, but I gained a great deal of other experience that has served me well ever since.
Pure Gliding
CZ whilst not suggesting that motor Gliders do not have their place the simple truth is they do not 'involve' Cadets much with contact with the aircraft as per winch launching.This is an important facet of the Viking fleet as there is precious
little actual contact with aircraft nowadays in the Air Cadet organisation.
This may not be important to the regular staff but the chance to actually get involved with the whole operation by a keen youngster is one of the organisations greatest assets. I was lucky in so much that my first ever flight was in a glider which i was able to sit in wearing the uniform i had arrived in not burdened by a parachute and bone dome.Although the flights were short they also required multiple take offs and landings therefore were quite exciting for a 13yr old.When not actually flying we were 'helping' either at the launch end,recovering,or assisting down at the winch. All this activity was 'hands on' and was much more interesting than sitting around trussed up like a turkey.
The key word was 'involvement' and the winch launch gliding operation had no equal in this.
little actual contact with aircraft nowadays in the Air Cadet organisation.
This may not be important to the regular staff but the chance to actually get involved with the whole operation by a keen youngster is one of the organisations greatest assets. I was lucky in so much that my first ever flight was in a glider which i was able to sit in wearing the uniform i had arrived in not burdened by a parachute and bone dome.Although the flights were short they also required multiple take offs and landings therefore were quite exciting for a 13yr old.When not actually flying we were 'helping' either at the launch end,recovering,or assisting down at the winch. All this activity was 'hands on' and was much more interesting than sitting around trussed up like a turkey.
The key word was 'involvement' and the winch launch gliding operation had no equal in this.
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Unfortunately, I think the world has changed, and that whole being part of the operation doesn't have the appeal anymore. In fact, as a former VGS instructor, I flew many cadets who clearly did not want to be there at all, even the awe of flying did not hold any wonder. I would rather see the VGSs deliver gliding scholarships up to and beyond first solo, and scale back GICs and IGTs. If there were fewer scholarships available, and awarded to the most deserving, then there 'value' to the cadet would be far greater. The AEFs could be tasked to take on a greater proportion of the Experience flying.
As to Whether the organisation retains both Viking and Vigilant squadrons, It needs to be appreciated that the majority of Squadrons operate the vigilant, often for practical reasons. A wholly Viking organisation will result in a great loss of trained staff and fewer sites being able to operate. A move to fewer units will undoubtedly mean reduced tasking, but could also require increased manning - possibly even permanent staff.
As to Whether the organisation retains both Viking and Vigilant squadrons, It needs to be appreciated that the majority of Squadrons operate the vigilant, often for practical reasons. A wholly Viking organisation will result in a great loss of trained staff and fewer sites being able to operate. A move to fewer units will undoubtedly mean reduced tasking, but could also require increased manning - possibly even permanent staff.
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I suspect the transition from Vigilant to Viking will be far harder to achieve than the other way round. Furthermore, I would think that a great number of established Vigilant instructors would simply walk away rather than convert to the Viking. Many of the current vigilant sites are unsuited to Viking ops, so a wholly conventional air cadet gliding organisation is going to be severely reduced from pre-pause levels. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of staff returning is less than 25% of what it was. From that base, how long does it take to re-establish the organisation back to self sustaining levels. It would take several months to get a squadron back up and running, missing out on the productive summer months training. Another year without the throughput of cadets to become potential staff cadets. This means staffing remains tight for another year, etc, etc. To even begin to hope to achieve self-sustainment is probably going to be a 3-5 year endeavour, assuming the organisation broadly follows the same model as it did before the pause, albeit on a much reduced scale. IMHO a far better approach may be the creation of full-time fully staffed gliding centres, working much like the AT centres, The Joint Services Sailing Centre etc.
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POBJOY, Buckley & Thorr
All good points:
POBJOY - The Youth of today aren't fussed about a winch launch and many find hanging around on the field 'boring'. Social interaction isn't high on their skill set nowadays (ask many employers). The excitement of an open cockpit launch in a MK3 was everything to me - but is nothing to them..............
Buckley - I think all your points are valid. Particularly the struggle to operate. My Viking school wanted at least 3 days a month and my local Vigilant school wanted 2 complete weekends a month !! - major commitment for people with families..............
Thorr - good points. I think many Vigi instructors would walk away. I like the model of centres (like the AT centres) - full time and part timers might work, will it be funded though ?? - it requires infrastructure (airfield and staff) not just a couple of portakabins like many VGS have at present)
Just my 2 pennyworth
Arc
All good points:
POBJOY - The Youth of today aren't fussed about a winch launch and many find hanging around on the field 'boring'. Social interaction isn't high on their skill set nowadays (ask many employers). The excitement of an open cockpit launch in a MK3 was everything to me - but is nothing to them..............
Buckley - I think all your points are valid. Particularly the struggle to operate. My Viking school wanted at least 3 days a month and my local Vigilant school wanted 2 complete weekends a month !! - major commitment for people with families..............
Thorr - good points. I think many Vigi instructors would walk away. I like the model of centres (like the AT centres) - full time and part timers might work, will it be funded though ?? - it requires infrastructure (airfield and staff) not just a couple of portakabins like many VGS have at present)
Just my 2 pennyworth
Arc
Sitting here on a wet morning, I fell to wondering what the answer would be if the question was asked for the first time, in the current scenario of the social environment, safety culture, etc. I think the point Is well made about kids not being too interested in the "social" aspects, but perhaps they need to be encouraged. As a 71 year old it is partly the social/co-operative aspect of gliding compared with powered flying that attracts me. Start with the objectives, and how those can be met best. But how to achieve it becomes more difficult the longer the lack of gliding continues. Volunteers will be fiendishly difficult to replace. Staff cadets will have all but disappeared. What is clearly required is strong and clearly visible leadership, and a clear understanding of how to lead and motivate volunteers, which from the outside appears to be lacking. In its absence I can, with great sadness, see the whole exercise folding.
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Thorr
I also agree with your point regarding the motivation of cadets attending the VGS, many IGT cadets that I trained often said 'I only came because my mate was coming...........' and indeed often many of those cadets attending the BGT continuous courses had suspect motivation and would have failed pre-course 'screening' (had there been any). Difficult to generalise but I would say that the CCF cadets probably had more motivation than the ATC Cadets (and that from an ex-ATC Cadet !)
Maybe there should be some screening of cadets before the course is handed to them on a plate...............that way the more motivated ones might get the reduced number of places available..........., in future it appears that more travelling distances will be required - this will be a big factor for many.
Arc
I also agree with your point regarding the motivation of cadets attending the VGS, many IGT cadets that I trained often said 'I only came because my mate was coming...........' and indeed often many of those cadets attending the BGT continuous courses had suspect motivation and would have failed pre-course 'screening' (had there been any). Difficult to generalise but I would say that the CCF cadets probably had more motivation than the ATC Cadets (and that from an ex-ATC Cadet !)
Maybe there should be some screening of cadets before the course is handed to them on a plate...............that way the more motivated ones might get the reduced number of places available..........., in future it appears that more travelling distances will be required - this will be a big factor for many.
Arc
INVOLVEMENT
ARC I do realise things are different nowadays,however there will be no Cadets who have ever had a winch launch in an open cockpit machine therefore nothing to compare with. The involvement on the field is down to an individual schools
operations,but i do not see why the old premise of staff cadets showing the day visitors what to do is any different. Having seen a Cadet Squadron filling shopping bags at a local supermarket; none of whom had a gliding badge what the hell has happened to the organisation.
Half the fun of going gliding were the simple things :- holding wings for launching,attaching cables,assisting strapping in,riding in Landrovers on recovery ops, in other words 'helping' with the days operation and learning lots about team work and how it all came together to go flying. The fact that most of the 'jobs' were being done by other Cadets made it even more of a exercise in a possible (that could be me) scenario. If you have never experienced that sort of operation how can it can be judged.I bet if you gave the average Cadet the chance for a days proper involvement at a Viking site or filling shopping bags it would be no contest.I do have to admit that 'recovery' duties could be made quite entertaining with some 'off road' excursions' en route to the recovery point !! (cadets loved it)
operations,but i do not see why the old premise of staff cadets showing the day visitors what to do is any different. Having seen a Cadet Squadron filling shopping bags at a local supermarket; none of whom had a gliding badge what the hell has happened to the organisation.
Half the fun of going gliding were the simple things :- holding wings for launching,attaching cables,assisting strapping in,riding in Landrovers on recovery ops, in other words 'helping' with the days operation and learning lots about team work and how it all came together to go flying. The fact that most of the 'jobs' were being done by other Cadets made it even more of a exercise in a possible (that could be me) scenario. If you have never experienced that sort of operation how can it can be judged.I bet if you gave the average Cadet the chance for a days proper involvement at a Viking site or filling shopping bags it would be no contest.I do have to admit that 'recovery' duties could be made quite entertaining with some 'off road' excursions' en route to the recovery point !! (cadets loved it)
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Something that occurs to me around staffing. If there are less centres that may have full time staff - where are they coming from ??
Currently there are approx 25 VGS plus 1 suspended (617) - on average 30 staff each = 750 staff
If you Full Time this it could reduce to 300 maybe ??. Currently the RAF has a pilot shortage, the AEF/UAS struggle to fill posts - so where will the staff come from ? (even FTRS would be a struggle)
Any thoughts anyone ?
Arc
Currently there are approx 25 VGS plus 1 suspended (617) - on average 30 staff each = 750 staff
If you Full Time this it could reduce to 300 maybe ??. Currently the RAF has a pilot shortage, the AEF/UAS struggle to fill posts - so where will the staff come from ? (even FTRS would be a struggle)
Any thoughts anyone ?
Arc
Staffing
Well you never know ARC we may have to reinvent the 'Dads Army' of the ATC gliding world.The first job would be a 'surgical strike' on Syerston and the removal of Public enemy No 1 to be sentenced to fill shopping bags at Tesco.
Tesco Iran that is.
Tesco Iran that is.
Cadet screening....
Arc
When I first joined my gliding school all cadets for gliding courses were screened (interviewed by CO/CFI) before being accepted on a course. The squadrons complained bitterly that some of their cadets were being turned down.
When we looked into it we found that squadrons were sending along cadets that would not be missed from the Sunday parade (make of that what you will). The best (in the eyes of the squadrons) were being kept back to keep things moving on the Sunday parades.
The screening was stopped and we had to take what we were sent by the squadrons........
Maybe there should be some screening of cadets before the course is handed to them on a plate
When we looked into it we found that squadrons were sending along cadets that would not be missed from the Sunday parade (make of that what you will). The best (in the eyes of the squadrons) were being kept back to keep things moving on the Sunday parades.
The screening was stopped and we had to take what we were sent by the squadrons........
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I was interviewed by the VGS CO when I asked to become a Staff Cadet.
I was never interviewed when I applied to go on the Gliding Scholarship (Remember those ?) - although I believe you had to be recommended for 'Advanced' before you could apply to be a Staff Cadet though (Thanks Mr Tapson
)
My Squadron and Wing objected to my joining the VGS as I was on the Wing Shooting Team (.303 and .22). This was 'referred' to the Region Staff and I 'escaped' only because I was 18 and most shooting competitions had an upper age limit of 18 years for some reason. I still coached the Squadron shooting team but the VGS became my preferred 'location'
I believe that the 'screening' of candidates is something that should be undertaken by the GLO before the course is allocated IMHO.
Arc
I was never interviewed when I applied to go on the Gliding Scholarship (Remember those ?) - although I believe you had to be recommended for 'Advanced' before you could apply to be a Staff Cadet though (Thanks Mr Tapson
)My Squadron and Wing objected to my joining the VGS as I was on the Wing Shooting Team (.303 and .22). This was 'referred' to the Region Staff and I 'escaped' only because I was 18 and most shooting competitions had an upper age limit of 18 years for some reason. I still coached the Squadron shooting team but the VGS became my preferred 'location'
I believe that the 'screening' of candidates is something that should be undertaken by the GLO before the course is allocated IMHO.
Arc
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VGS ITU & Recovery ward
POBJOY - yes there was lots of involvement with Viking ops, as was the case on the old days with the Mk III, and Sedbergh with the old Balloon winches. The new MVG winches that came in around 1989 were a quantum leap in terms of efficiency, and particularly in terms of comfort for a day's winch driving,( What - a heater ???) although it could make lovely steel winch cable cable knitwear !!
I don't altogether accept that there was little involvement in Vigilant ops though. It all depends on DI leadership and the team in order that the whole troop is kept occupied, and not bored ----less.
BuckleyBoy - yes agreed that there will be a huge loss of up to 800 GS from Vigilant VGS ops if they are decimated, and I do agree that convex from Vigilant to Viking will be an enormously troublesome area - Do they want to ? Are they able to ? -.e., any relevant experience of conventional ops. Are they able to join in terms of geographic location? and are the sites entirely suitable for winch ops.
As for just concentrating on GS, I think that would be an altogether poor strategy as many young Cadets have a wonderful opportunity to see whether they like having their backsides off the ground by doing IGT, whilst some can overcome their fear of flying at the same time. I well remember one such Cadet who was so frightened ( not by me !!!) that he had to be removed from my aeroplane for a while until the DI had re-assured him and I had explained just exactly how I would deal with his fear. The result was a hugely successful sortie with a smile as long as the runway and a fear of flying totally conquered. How can anyone say that this work was not rewarding ?
I also remember getting a new CGI to solo standard after his "white knuckles" were made to relax sufficiently - that and many more.
Not only that, as we stand now, we have a new Winch to contend with, and all existing staff totally outside any category/currency limits. Indeed, some of the best expertise has gone, and continues to bleed away as time goes by.
Not many raw recruits wish to spend anything up to 18 hours a day , three days a month, plus at least one 7 day continuous period, away from home, on a bleak windswept airfield, with precious little work breaks, or refreshment and on top of that work their way up from the very bottom, i.e., retrieve driving, cable pulling, winch driving, signalling, pushing, pulling and heaving quite heavy GRP ships all day and then cleaning all the said machines at the end of the long day, and learning to rig and de-rig Vikings.
I suspect those in the Ivory Towers and above have failed to appreciate the very highly skilled, and generous public spirited workforce that they had, but will soon find out what they haven't got by the time they get some aircraft on some airfields in an attempt to enact their master plan for 2020. They can't even rely on any FSC's as they have all gone too , and no new ones have been trained for nearly two years.
They may even have to look the assistance of some of the old "Home Guard contingent" like self who could perhaps do some ground training of new recruits. I personally spent 30 years from Mk III to Sedbergh, Venture, Viking and Vigilant, and held executive posts on more than one unit and served on at least two operational front line stations, and one other. I retired gracefully on the last day that I was able to fly HM's aeroplanes, and I can truly say that I have seen some outstanding Cadets develop , some of whom are now Senior RAF Officers, some of whom have held prestigious appointments in the RAF. Would I do it again? Certainly.
Is it/ Was it a safe and professional operation ? Yes, absolutely. Yes, I will admit that we have seen the odd comedian/ Walter Mitty / Spanner, but by and large they were very soon rumbled and eliminated before they had any chance to cause a major problem. Amateurs in terms of pay, but totally professional in every operational aspect, borne out by some of the RAF PTC Flight Safety Awards made. I represented my VGS on the Station Flight Safety Committee, and in that time, not ONE complaint was levelled against the VGS. We also flew during normal weekday ops and operated under full Air Traffic Rules as indeed all the other FT RAF pilots and instructors did. We operated a station approved Health & Safety policy for the VGS and liaison was at all times courteous and correct.
Quite simply the best thing that OC 2 FTS could do is to come to terms with the fact that those who have in some cases a lifetime of experience, may be able to help exhume the VGS organisation from its current graveyard scenario. I think we can all agree here that Daddy does not know best !!!
I still think that when all the infighting has ceased and we have got > than a couple of dozen Cadets aviating again, that there is an overwhelming case for this whole taxpayer waste to be scrutinised and some people brought to account. It should NOT be left to blow away like petals from flowers at the graveside.
I think that many of us perhaps enjoyed the premium years, it's just such a terrible shame that incompetence has brought such a marvellous organisation to a complete standstill with a very slim chance of successful resuscitation. Perhaps a defibrillator applied to certain body parts in certain places may galvanise some greater pace ??
I don't altogether accept that there was little involvement in Vigilant ops though. It all depends on DI leadership and the team in order that the whole troop is kept occupied, and not bored ----less.
BuckleyBoy - yes agreed that there will be a huge loss of up to 800 GS from Vigilant VGS ops if they are decimated, and I do agree that convex from Vigilant to Viking will be an enormously troublesome area - Do they want to ? Are they able to ? -.e., any relevant experience of conventional ops. Are they able to join in terms of geographic location? and are the sites entirely suitable for winch ops.
As for just concentrating on GS, I think that would be an altogether poor strategy as many young Cadets have a wonderful opportunity to see whether they like having their backsides off the ground by doing IGT, whilst some can overcome their fear of flying at the same time. I well remember one such Cadet who was so frightened ( not by me !!!) that he had to be removed from my aeroplane for a while until the DI had re-assured him and I had explained just exactly how I would deal with his fear. The result was a hugely successful sortie with a smile as long as the runway and a fear of flying totally conquered. How can anyone say that this work was not rewarding ?
I also remember getting a new CGI to solo standard after his "white knuckles" were made to relax sufficiently - that and many more.
Not only that, as we stand now, we have a new Winch to contend with, and all existing staff totally outside any category/currency limits. Indeed, some of the best expertise has gone, and continues to bleed away as time goes by.
Not many raw recruits wish to spend anything up to 18 hours a day , three days a month, plus at least one 7 day continuous period, away from home, on a bleak windswept airfield, with precious little work breaks, or refreshment and on top of that work their way up from the very bottom, i.e., retrieve driving, cable pulling, winch driving, signalling, pushing, pulling and heaving quite heavy GRP ships all day and then cleaning all the said machines at the end of the long day, and learning to rig and de-rig Vikings.
I suspect those in the Ivory Towers and above have failed to appreciate the very highly skilled, and generous public spirited workforce that they had, but will soon find out what they haven't got by the time they get some aircraft on some airfields in an attempt to enact their master plan for 2020. They can't even rely on any FSC's as they have all gone too , and no new ones have been trained for nearly two years.
They may even have to look the assistance of some of the old "Home Guard contingent" like self who could perhaps do some ground training of new recruits. I personally spent 30 years from Mk III to Sedbergh, Venture, Viking and Vigilant, and held executive posts on more than one unit and served on at least two operational front line stations, and one other. I retired gracefully on the last day that I was able to fly HM's aeroplanes, and I can truly say that I have seen some outstanding Cadets develop , some of whom are now Senior RAF Officers, some of whom have held prestigious appointments in the RAF. Would I do it again? Certainly.
Is it/ Was it a safe and professional operation ? Yes, absolutely. Yes, I will admit that we have seen the odd comedian/ Walter Mitty / Spanner, but by and large they were very soon rumbled and eliminated before they had any chance to cause a major problem. Amateurs in terms of pay, but totally professional in every operational aspect, borne out by some of the RAF PTC Flight Safety Awards made. I represented my VGS on the Station Flight Safety Committee, and in that time, not ONE complaint was levelled against the VGS. We also flew during normal weekday ops and operated under full Air Traffic Rules as indeed all the other FT RAF pilots and instructors did. We operated a station approved Health & Safety policy for the VGS and liaison was at all times courteous and correct.
Quite simply the best thing that OC 2 FTS could do is to come to terms with the fact that those who have in some cases a lifetime of experience, may be able to help exhume the VGS organisation from its current graveyard scenario. I think we can all agree here that Daddy does not know best !!!
I still think that when all the infighting has ceased and we have got > than a couple of dozen Cadets aviating again, that there is an overwhelming case for this whole taxpayer waste to be scrutinised and some people brought to account. It should NOT be left to blow away like petals from flowers at the graveside.
I think that many of us perhaps enjoyed the premium years, it's just such a terrible shame that incompetence has brought such a marvellous organisation to a complete standstill with a very slim chance of successful resuscitation. Perhaps a defibrillator applied to certain body parts in certain places may galvanise some greater pace ??
I was interviewed by the VGS CO when I asked to become a Staff Cadet.
I was never interviewed when I applied to go on the Gliding Scholarship (Remember those ?) - although I believe you had to be recommended for 'Advanced' before you could apply to be a Staff Cadet though (Thanks Mr Tapson)
My Squadron and Wing objected to my joining the VGS as I was on the Wing Shooting Team (.303 and .22). This was 'referred' to the Region Staff and I 'escaped' only because I was 18 and most shooting competitions had an upper age limit of 18 years for some reason. I still coached the Squadron shooting team but the VGS became my preferred 'location'
I believe that the 'screening' of candidates is something that should be undertaken by the GLO before the course is allocated IMHO.
Arc
I was never interviewed when I applied to go on the Gliding Scholarship (Remember those ?) - although I believe you had to be recommended for 'Advanced' before you could apply to be a Staff Cadet though (Thanks Mr Tapson
)My Squadron and Wing objected to my joining the VGS as I was on the Wing Shooting Team (.303 and .22). This was 'referred' to the Region Staff and I 'escaped' only because I was 18 and most shooting competitions had an upper age limit of 18 years for some reason. I still coached the Squadron shooting team but the VGS became my preferred 'location'
I believe that the 'screening' of candidates is something that should be undertaken by the GLO before the course is allocated IMHO.
Arc
Became good friends with a lot of FSCs and staff whilst I was there. Expressed interest in staying on at the VGS once I'd finished to became an FSC. Made sure the senior FSC, DCFI, CFI and Boss all definitely knew I wanted to.
Did my solo, then never heard back.
A few months later was staying with a friend who was an FSC so they dragged me back down on the Saturday, and I became an FSC just by continuing to turn up... was never invited to become one, never interviewed or anything, just happened, no process.
Once I did I realised my squadron was only turning up maybe 1/2 the time they were down for GICs... turns out my squadron OC (who was a royal C*** with a capital C) couldn't be bothered to give up his weekend most of the time, so didn't bother telling the cadets of the opportunities.
Even when I was a 19 year old CGI (I left the ATC at 18), so was an adult staff member, he wouldn't let me take the cadets down for the day. I informed Wing HQ, as I was well known to a few of the Sqn Leaders and Wing Commander, they didn't even care, said there was nothing they could do. I read between the lines and took it to mean there was nothing they could be bothered to do.
Came across this a lot in the ATC, amongst numerous different squadrons. Far too many uniformed staff seemed to massage their ego and get any enjoyment only for themselves, not to give something back to the cadets.
Tis a shame.
Once I get my new base, I'll try and make it back to the local VGS, if things are back up and running by then. And even if it's not I'll let the Boss know that I'll be there when it is.
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Llama
I believe that technically you can't just turn up nowadays. Too much H&S for that to be possible.
FSC appointments have to be approved at Squadron and Wing level.
Otherwise every Tom, Dick and Harriet would be showing up and hanging out.............
It does appear that you have had a poor experience from your organisation at all levels though.
Arc
I believe that technically you can't just turn up nowadays. Too much H&S for that to be possible.
FSC appointments have to be approved at Squadron and Wing level.
Otherwise every Tom, Dick and Harriet would be showing up and hanging out.............
It does appear that you have had a poor experience from your organisation at all levels though.
Arc
Llama
I believe that technically you can't just turn up nowadays. Too much H&S for that to be possible.
FSC appointments have to be approved at Squadron and Wing level.
Otherwise every Tom, Dick and Harriet would be showing up and hanging out.............
It does appear that you have had a poor experience from your organisation at all levels though.
Arc
I believe that technically you can't just turn up nowadays. Too much H&S for that to be possible.
FSC appointments have to be approved at Squadron and Wing level.
Otherwise every Tom, Dick and Harriet would be showing up and hanging out.............
It does appear that you have had a poor experience from your organisation at all levels though.
Arc
Right up until I left at 21/22 once I'd graduated uni and moved away for first job, there were always prodigal sons returning... former FSCs/CGIs who would rock up and spend the day in the caravan (at DI and/or GSDE's discretion) catching up with old friends. Even 8 years later I imagine bureaucracy has got so much that wouldn't be allowed.
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Primary Gliders?
Oh hell, why not re introduce primary gliders and let the young folks self launch themselves from the playing field with a length of bungee. Lord of The Flies style organisation, the strongest brutes launching the weedy ones into the air.
The survivors could then be wire launched behind a Rover Capri from a suitable length of Tarmac.
Character building, worked for the German Air Force, all their finest and brightest flew from the WasserKupper (Water Hill)....
The survivors could then be wire launched behind a Rover Capri from a suitable length of Tarmac.
Character building, worked for the German Air Force, all their finest and brightest flew from the WasserKupper (Water Hill)....
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
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