WW3 Battle of Britain

[Thrust Augmentation]

The Tu-160 entered service (IOC) in April 1987 with the 184th GvTBAP in Priluki receiving two aircraft. Looks like a total of 21 production aircraft reached the 184th by 1991.

[ExRAFRadar]

So no Blackjack's in the time frame. Probably just as well.

[CoffmanStarter]

ExRAFRadar ... CMANO ?

[Dysonsphere]

Hmmm Threads prob the best anti war movie ever made and nice shots of the F4's on QRA

[clicker]

ExRAFradar,

I have a few copies of a book called United Kingdom Air Arms.

Most from the 90's onwards until 2005 but also 1985/1988 and 1989.

What info can I help with? Info is basic stuff for spotters, Base, Type, Unit, Reg and Code.

clicker

[clicker]

Oh and I also have one or two freq books with the military ICF's, airfields and other freqs listed.

Not too sure how far back they go but if you have comms in the roles then might have some info for you in them.

For example you might go for being able to dial up a freq, get it wrong and no vector info available etc.

[Melchett01]

The Central plot is looking a bit sad as well. 2 Blinder's made it past the extended CAP and got off 2 ARM's at about 80 miles. Boulmer is now a burning wreck.

I was a mere sprog in my penultimate year at primary school in 85 so may have missed something, but why not have a go at Buchan first off?

Apart from the immense pleasure it would give me to see Buchan as a smoking hole in the ground, wasn't Buchan responsible for ADR(North) in the 80s or was Boulmer also an operational CRC at that time as well as the School and a RRH?

[taxydual]

And this, Harpoon 3 Professional (H3MilSim) | Advanced Gaming Systems Inc (AGSI) Computer Harpoon Products

[gr4techie]

ExRAFRadar...

Don't forget to add to your wargame for added realism that on a weekend we went home or the singleys moved into the pub. You might as well leave a sign on the beaches asking the Russians to come back monday morning, as it's just not cricket to work weekends.

When I was at Coningsby while we had the Tornado Air Display Variant the most heavily defended part of the UK on a friday evening was the Sports and Social club, above the JRM. Then the Ruskies would have never captured the Black Swan or Ratties on a Saturday night.

The biggest disaster in your war-game could be if you roll two 6's which means that Pizza shop on the walk home from the pub has closed and you wake up next to a local one eye potato picker with webbed feet.

[ORAC]

The USSR didn't have an independent Air Force as such, only air assets subordinated to the navy and army. Their only independent arm was the Strategic Rocket forces and the dedicated Bear H nuclear bombers tasked against the USA.

The Bears, Badgers and Northern Fleet Backfires were dedicated to ASuW against the US CBGs. The Central Region Backfires were used as tactical bombers - photos of the time show the multiple bomb shackle racks on the underside for their medium range role.

The Blinder was a joke, if it tried to get high speed it used up all it's fuel.

They pretended they were a threat and we pretended to protect against it.

Reference Red Storm Rising and CBGs. I attended a 3 day SIMEX at Ramstein in the mid-80s at which the US DISTAFF threw the WP ORBAT at the UK through the Low Countries with zero attrition on the way on day 1 with predictable results. In the SIM the USN had 2 CBGs in the GIUK Gap.

Remembering the book, I found I could get into the sim and divert all their F-14s into RAF Leuchars rather than landing back on their carriers.

At the start of day 2 I had a wall of Phoenix equipped F-14s down the North Sea and trashed the next attack. The USN carriers got sunk.

The US DISTAFF were not impressed. The Group Captain in charge of our team bought my drinks all night.........

[MAINJAFAD]

Apart from the immense pleasure it would give me to see Buchan as a smoking hole in the ground, wasn't Buchan responsible for ADR(North) in the 80s or was Boulmer also an operational CRC at that time as well as the School and a RRH?

Until IUKADGE became operational there were three sectors in UKADR.

Sector North

HQ - Buchan T80 / S259 / HF200 / GL-161 DHS (CRC)
- Saxa Vord S600 / S259? / HF 200 (CRP)
- Benbecula T88 / T89 ??? (RP)

Sector Central

HQ - Boulmer T85 / T84 / HF200 / PD / SLEWC (CRC)
- Bishops Court T84 / HF200 (RP)

Sector South

HQ - Neatishead T85 / T84 / HF200 / PD / SLEWC / AA4Mk7 (Weyboune) (CRC)
- Staxton Wold T85 / T84 / HF200 / PD / SLEWC (either CRP or RP)
- Portreath T88 / T89 (RP)

Standby Early Warning and Control (SLWEC) sites could exchage digtal data with themselves and other ground based AD networks (i.e. NADGE). Data from RP's and CRP's to SLEWC or GL161 was via semi-automatic remote input devices at the RP or done at the CRC via phone.

Other GBAD Radar assets.

144 SU Mobile Radar Reserve. T99 (TPS-43F), T94 (AR-3D Panicle rig with 11 consoles and 12 UHF / VHF AGA Radios + 2-4 HF radios) plot data from this radar could be fed into SLEWC, S259.

Bloodhound Mk 2 sites

West Raynham - AA4Mk7 TCR. T86 TIR x 5
North Coates - AA4Mk7 TCR?. T86 TIR x 3
Bawdsey - AA4Mk7 TCR. T86 TIR x 2
Wyton T86 TIR x 2
Barkston Heath T86 TIR x 2
Wattisham T86 TIR x 2

Two of the 85 Sqn sites had a local Tactical Control Radar, don't know about 25 Sqn. T86 had limited search capability

IUKADGE Radars were being rolled out through 87 - 89. Last of the Type 93's (rig 6) arrived at Bishops Court in Late Aug / Early Sept 89. No idea about the rest of the T91/92/93 fleet though the old display systems (Fixed Coil Console 64 / SLEWC) needed a digital plot to analog video convertor to make use of the radar data from the new radars (never saw it work in NI). Plus the T93s were not that reliable (though was fitted with decoy equipment)

West Drayton was home of the scopie school in that era.

In a thread on the game site I am querying the lack of ability to fire the AS4 ARM on a 'Bearing Only Launch' until the carrier has detected the radar. Seems a bit unrealistic to me. But another scenario designer wrote this.

"I just tried it out, it seems impossible to launch the AS-4 Kitchen ARM with a bearing only attack. It always says "target out of range" in the weapon allocation window. Which is a shame, really, because blind firing anti radar missiles on suspected enemy emitter locations is a pretty common tactic.

AS-4 mostly likely a very accurate homer (nice big dish at the front) if the target radar keeps emitting, however it most likely had to be tuned to the target radar before launch and didn't have the capability of a HARM type weapon to select its destination based on a list of radar transmission parameters (the thing would have used a mix of sub miniature valves and transistors which were standard for Soviet electronics of that weapon's era). Inertial Navigation system would have most likely been good enough to get a Nuke to the target emitter site if said emitter was switched off while the missile was in flight, but not so likely for a conventional warhead. Most likely it could have regained lock on after launch if the emitter was switched on and off, but would have been very susceptible to decoying. Neatishead’s AA4Mk7’s had two roles. Provide low level coverage and be ARM fodder to protect the T85. Was a very nasty weapon to handle though as the fuel and oxidiser on the missile were very toxic, extremely corrosive and hypergolic

[MightyGem]

The bang was already in place, near to the targets and hidden in 'innocent' looking concrete barns, substations, holes in the ground etc and just needed rigging on the target. Study the bridges closely and you would have seen the brackets already welded in place on the bridges for the charges.

Ah yes. Measle shafts and cheeses. Never actually got involved with them, being an Amphibious Engr, but it was intriguing to know that just about every bridge was prepared for demolition.

[MAINJAFAD]

The Blinder was a joke, if it tried to get high speed it used up all it's fuel.

Humm, I think you will find that the aircrew who flew it and ground crew who worked on it more likely thought it was a joke on them. It was pretty much universally hated by anybody who worked on it. Almost 1 in 3 lost in accidents, downward firing ejection seats made successful escapes the exception rather than the norm. Pilot was off set in the cockpit, thus crosswind landing could result in no sight of the runway. The cockpit was an ergonomics disaster area. The controls were too heavy for a single pilot. The high mounted engines were a nightmare for the Russian sooties to work on. It was procured as a standoff missile launcher (The literal translation of the aircraft's Russian role designation was Missile Carrier (old Tom got that right in Red Storm). Its only real redeeming feature was the 100 plus gallons of pure grain alcohol used in the de-icing system which led to the aircraft being sometimes nicknamed the "booze carrier" as the Soviets didn’t make the stuff unfit for human consumption.

[Finningley Boy]

As of 1978 (when I was introduced to it all - ASOP Course 178 at West Drayton) the CRC's were also SOC's; Buchan, Boulmer and Neatishead. CRPs were Staxton Wold, Bishop's Court and Benbecula. The HPRP was Saxa Vord. 1 ACC being at Wattisham but I think about then they were in the process of moving to Nancy Cuke (Portreath). I think I got the former name right. 25 Sqn were at Bruggen with Flights at Wildenrath and Laarbruch. 85 were at West Raynham with a Flight at North Coates, I don't think anywhere else at the time. There was no change from this until after 1983 if I recollect correctly.

FB

[gr4techie]

The book on the subject of a Soviet invasion of Europe and the NATO response...

The Third World War
by
General Sir John Hackett
ISBN 0-425-04477-7

I remember as a child, my parents had this book gathering dust on a bookshelf. I used to like looking at the photos inside the book of guys on TACEVALS. From what I remember the book was written like a novel set in August 1985 but described what units would be involved, what movements they would have made, maps & plans and what the outcomes would have been etc.

[ExRAFRadar]

ExRAFRadar ... CMANO ?

Yep.

[BEagle]

D44+8

I think you'll find that was impossible to declare such a state!

Think about it....

[MAINJAFAD]

Hmmm Threads prob the best anti war movie ever made and nice shots of the F4's on QRA

First saw it in Sept 84 while in the later half of trade training and had already done two exercise in full NBC rig by time it was repeated in Aug 85. The Phantom footage if memory serves was of 19 and 92 Sqn aircraft at Wildenrath taken during a Man Alive programme called Phantom which was about the station on exercise and was shown on BBC2 in 1980. There was an RAF CIO film called Intercept that covered the UK Air Defence systems and the branches and trades that manned it. All of the locations were RAF XXXXXXX this or RAF YYYYYYY that and the film started with the crew of a Russian Badger getting into the aircraft (which was actually the cockpit of the Valiant while it was still on the gate at Marhell). Not only covered Southern QRA (Wattashambles), but the CRC's (Boulmer, according to the OiC of my block at Locking as he was the Shift Jengo on the bridge of the R12 in the film), Bloodhound (West Raynham), Victors (Marhell) and Shacks (ISL), plus a Jock Rock Rapier Sqn (48 Sqn at ISL). Some of it is on Youtube





Would love to get a complete copy of it.

If we're going to be that realistic, maybe it should be running on a Commodore

Anyhow. got to get my head down for a long drive to the West Midlands early tomorrow morning to help some guys in our own 1988 era Air Defence battle simulation project. With our project however we are being totally realistic as the equipment is actually what would have been used for real back then, though it also came with a simulator function. (The computer is a Ferranti Argus 700).

[MAINJAFAD]

As of 1978 (when I was introduced to it all - ASOP Course 178 at West Drayton) the CRC's were also SOC's; Buchan, Boulmer and Neatishead. CRPs were Staxton Wold, Bishop's Court and Benbecula. The HPRP was Saxa Vord. 1 ACC being at Wattisham but I think about then they were in the process of moving to Nancy Cuke (Portreath). I think I got the former name right. 25 Sqn were at Bruggen with Flights at Wildenrath and Laarbruch. 85 were at West Raynham with a Flight at North Coates, I don't think anywhere else at the time. There was no change from this until after 1983 if I recollect correctly.

FB

FB close enough, it's actually Nancekuke. Killard Point with the T80 may have been a CRP, but the T84 site on the Airfield at Bishops court was most definitely an RP as there were no Controllers there when I got there in 89 (not to say that controllers couldn't have been sent out there at short notice). Bloodhound in 78 was exactly as you state, though by the start of 82, 85 Squadron had an operational flight at Bawdsey, a second flight at West Raynham building up (which was going to Watton originally then Coltishall to defend the SOC at Neatishead and the USAF Phantoms that were going in there), plus one flight had already been pulled out of RAFG and was working up at Wattisham.

[gr4techie]

Originally Posted by ExRAFRadar

Also to spice things up a little I am thinking of having Pact Frontal Aviation units attack the Southern UKADR from captured bases in Denmark, Holland and Belgium. Is this feasible ?

From a flight servicing / operational turnaround perspective, yes absolutely. As the Soviet aircraft were designed for this.
They had two refuelling connectors, unlike our single connector. One of their refuelling connectors was for refuelling at home in peace time. While the other refuelling connector they had on the airframe was a copy of the NATO standard refuel coupling. So that they could have used captured NATO fuel.

Originally Posted by ExRAFRadar

Boulmer is now a burning wreck.

Originally Posted by Canadian Break

Don't forget Boulmer also had the T91 deployed at Brunton - with a basic control facility as well (certainly for Broadcast) and, latterly, the T93 at Albemarle as well.

Many years ago I visited RAF Buchan. I was told by a guy who worked there that if they was any threat the type 80 radar trolly would have been towed out of the golf ball and hidden in a forest somewhere safer. While the underground bunker would have been impervious and would have kept on operating as normal with a datalink to the radars (wherever they were). However, I wouldn't fancy being the bod d*cked with opening the hatch and doing a run to the SPAR shop for cigs and pasties at tea break. But at least you would not have to microwave the pies and pasties.