WW3 Battle of Britain
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Closer than you think...
Age: 65
Posts: 390
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How far have the land forces got across europe? By what day 3? BAOR is err... well not very well may be one way of describing it.
By week 1, certainly 2 if it's not already gone tac nuke then the opposition could well be in a position to use the Autobahns as fwd runways unless the Sappers had managed to crater them a bit.
IIRC for us, it was going to be a mad rush to blow up any and every bridge in sight along with 'prepping' certain stretches of autobahn... Before either getting taken out or dropping thru lack of sleep etc. The bang was already in place, near to the targets and hidden in 'innocent' looking concrete barns, substations, holes in the ground etc and just needed rigging on the target. Study the bridges closely and you would have seen the brackets already welded in place on the bridges for the charges.
Of course, the West German Tankies had their own plan, a good mate from back then who commanded a Sqn of Leopard IIs reckoned they were only going one way, and that was straight to Moscow on the principle the recce had already been done and they knew the way!
By week 1, certainly 2 if it's not already gone tac nuke then the opposition could well be in a position to use the Autobahns as fwd runways unless the Sappers had managed to crater them a bit.
IIRC for us, it was going to be a mad rush to blow up any and every bridge in sight along with 'prepping' certain stretches of autobahn... Before either getting taken out or dropping thru lack of sleep etc. The bang was already in place, near to the targets and hidden in 'innocent' looking concrete barns, substations, holes in the ground etc and just needed rigging on the target. Study the bridges closely and you would have seen the brackets already welded in place on the bridges for the charges.
Of course, the West German Tankies had their own plan, a good mate from back then who commanded a Sqn of Leopard IIs reckoned they were only going one way, and that was straight to Moscow on the principle the recce had already been done and they knew the way!
Of course, the West German Tankies had their own plan, a good mate from back then who commanded a Sqn of Leopard IIs reckoned they were only going one way, and that was straight to Moscow on the principle the recce had already been done and they knew the way!
Some things are just inherent in the gene pool.................
In theory though there must be some kind of plan B to use older non electronic driven equipment like for example a Spitfire.
I read once that the US keep a couple of their old Museum ship's , Iowa?. In readiness in case of some kind of Emp attack.
But do we have 'modern' examples of prop driven aircraft capable of the same maneuverability and speed of the Spitfires and their Peers.
I thought id seen something about there being one around. But not sure if it was a Tucano or even if they are capable of being in combat.
Is there current compatible armour peircing ammo that could fit those old guns?.
Its an interesting thread in that if nothing else it gets you thinking how our defence could work if we lost or our electronics.
We might be down for a short while but . We must thanks to Raf Storage and Museums have all the schematics. Almost a complete step by step guide to get going.
They can take off almost anywhere and youd probably be able to train pilots who just held a Cessna or single engine licence to fly them.
But if you need numbers quickly and it would work. It might be a method of survival
I read once that the US keep a couple of their old Museum ship's , Iowa?. In readiness in case of some kind of Emp attack.
But do we have 'modern' examples of prop driven aircraft capable of the same maneuverability and speed of the Spitfires and their Peers.
I thought id seen something about there being one around. But not sure if it was a Tucano or even if they are capable of being in combat.
Is there current compatible armour peircing ammo that could fit those old guns?.
Its an interesting thread in that if nothing else it gets you thinking how our defence could work if we lost or our electronics.
We might be down for a short while but . We must thanks to Raf Storage and Museums have all the schematics. Almost a complete step by step guide to get going.
They can take off almost anywhere and youd probably be able to train pilots who just held a Cessna or single engine licence to fly them.
But if you need numbers quickly and it would work. It might be a method of survival
LJ
The Bulldogs and Chippies had a light comms war role. I remember acting as an observer whilst an APO on the UAS for our yearly practice. One exercise was helping the Police divert traffic round a blocked A1. Ten minutes in, the exercise turned real when an HGV overturned, and we made ourselves useful for an hour, then back home for tea & medals.
Not that I'd want to see anyone get themselves in trouble, but any Russian readers with specialist knowledge care to comment?
It WAS a long time ago and the equipment, order of battle and plans have moved on so you wouldn't be giving anything away.
It WAS a long time ago and the equipment, order of battle and plans have moved on so you wouldn't be giving anything away.
It WAS a long time ago and the equipment, order of battle and plans have moved on so you wouldn't be giving anything away.
JIPS
Originally Posted by ExRAFRadar
...The Central plot is looking a bit sad as well. 2 Blinder's made it past the extended CAP and got off 2 ARM's at about 80 miles. Boulmer is now a burning wreck...
The Bulldogs and Chippies had a light comms war role. I remember acting as an observer whilst an APO on the UAS for our yearly practice. One exercise was helping the Police divert traffic round a blocked A1. Ten minutes in, the exercise turned real when an HGV overturned, and we made ourselves useful for an hour, then back home for tea & medals.
As shown in the 1984 WWIII drama 'Threads' at 1.26.55
Anyhow EMP effects are very overrated. Yes it will cause massive effects on certain bits of unprotected electronic equipment in use at the time of the attack, but use surge protection on the power supplies and aerial feeders, shield the equipment in an earthed metal box (faraday cage) and fit optical isolators on any copper signal cables coming in (or use fibre optics) and the effects on electronic equipment are almost zero. On unprotected valve operated equipment the effects are minimal. Anything that cannot be protected when in use, ensure you have a spare stored in an earthed metal box, replace the burnt out item after the attack and carry on fighting. Anything not in use, disconnect the antennas and power supplies and ensure the thing is connected to earth (which of course the guys in the civil ECP in Sheffield forget to do when the Air Attack Red warning is called. As regards true EW, try jamming a Type 85 at full power.
...The Central plot is looking a bit sad as well. 2 Blinder's made it past the extended CAP and got off 2 ARM's at about 80 miles. Boulmer is now a burning wreck...
What was the ARM's front end??? Nukes
. To be honest I would suspect that the receiver in the homing head on a Soviet long range ARM would get fried and it would go ballistic before it got anywhere near a T85 Site at full power 
. Plus of course their was a big red kill button in the engineering bridge of the R12 that shut down all of the site radars that could be pressed if a Mach 4 target started heading the station's way. No signal, no homing
).
Last edited by MAINJAFAD; 4th Oct 2013 at 00:05.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Back to the fold in the map
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Don't forget Boulmer also had the T91 deployed at Brunton - with a basic control facility as well (certainly for Broadcast) and, latterly, the T93 at Albemarle as well.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: London
Age: 58
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FOD - "air defence destroyer in the North Sea"
Type 42 is in the scenario, just waiting to see if it needed.
Actually gaming out this out is making me wince a little bit. Late last night the RAF lost all 3 SOC's to ASM. Wattisham and Leuchers are Black because Kitchens hit the 'Access to Runway' targets. Basically they destroyed the taxi path into the runway stopping aircraft taking off. These have an estimated 10 hour repair time. Leucher's also lost 3 aircraft on the ground due to HAS's being taken out. Should be glad that 2 Kitchens failed and 3 more missed by over 50 meters so no damage. These bloody Kitchens are a nightmare. Once they are launched nothing can seem to get near them. Rapier point defense does not even engage. Bug perhaps. But the AS4 stays at about 70K feet then just drops onto the target at about 2000 knots.
The Shacks are providing the majority of the UK Radar Coverage right now.
Binbrook is now operational and 5/11 are giving a good account of themselves.
Total Ivan losses are around the 60 mark so far.
The lack of Pact Fighter assets means I can push the CAP further out with Tanker support. Not sure if this is accurate.
Also I realised that unless I assume Norway has fallen or her Radar units have been taken out then I should model her installations so the UK gets a raid warning much earlier. This thing is growing.
I have just stuck 2 Squadrons of USAF ANG F4's into Lakenheath and Coningsby. See how that pans out.
The ports of Immigham, Grimsby and some others with Ro-Ro capability are next on the target list.
Just thinking of giving the UK player an extra challenge by getting something coming in from the West.
Type 42 is in the scenario, just waiting to see if it needed.
Actually gaming out this out is making me wince a little bit. Late last night the RAF lost all 3 SOC's to ASM. Wattisham and Leuchers are Black because Kitchens hit the 'Access to Runway' targets. Basically they destroyed the taxi path into the runway stopping aircraft taking off. These have an estimated 10 hour repair time. Leucher's also lost 3 aircraft on the ground due to HAS's being taken out. Should be glad that 2 Kitchens failed and 3 more missed by over 50 meters so no damage. These bloody Kitchens are a nightmare. Once they are launched nothing can seem to get near them. Rapier point defense does not even engage. Bug perhaps. But the AS4 stays at about 70K feet then just drops onto the target at about 2000 knots.
The Shacks are providing the majority of the UK Radar Coverage right now.
Binbrook is now operational and 5/11 are giving a good account of themselves.
Total Ivan losses are around the 60 mark so far.
The lack of Pact Fighter assets means I can push the CAP further out with Tanker support. Not sure if this is accurate.
Also I realised that unless I assume Norway has fallen or her Radar units have been taken out then I should model her installations so the UK gets a raid warning much earlier. This thing is growing.
I have just stuck 2 Squadrons of USAF ANG F4's into Lakenheath and Coningsby. See how that pans out.
The ports of Immigham, Grimsby and some others with Ro-Ro capability are next on the target list.
Just thinking of giving the UK player an extra challenge by getting something coming in from the West.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
I am looking for authentic 1980's Sqn tactical callsigns.
The numeric codes were base issued and the systems varied. Some gave sqn blocks, but since CAPlead went to the lowest number most alternated, e.g. 43 even numbers and 111 odd numbers.
The fuel/weapons fits went as follows*
A = clean wing F4
B = F4 centreline tank only
C = F4 wing tanks only
D = F4 wing and centrline tanks
E = F3/F5 Lightning
F = F6 Lighting
G = F6 with overwing tanks
Weapons code was 2 digits and +/-, plus a further digit.
First digit was Sparrow/Skyflash for the F4 and Redtop for the Ltg. Second digit was Sidewinder for the F4 and Firestreak for the Ltg.
+ = Gun with more than 50% ammo, - less than 50%
last digit was number of missiles where the crew had a frontal kill capability. That usually thought of as Skyflash for the F4 and Redtop for the Lightning, but radar status had to be factored in.
An F4 with a serviceable radar might claim D44+8, but depending on Gadget state might call in as D44+4
Figer Fast/Slow, Joker and Bingo were tactical fuel calls. Remember at the time we used Bingo differently to the USAF and had BINGO 1 and BINGO 2 calls and our Joker was the USAF BINGO. We changed latter for commonality.
The Gadget code code for reporting radar/comms and other serviceability.
* This was the days before AMRAAM so no Fox 3 etc)
I'll talk about the threat, numbers, tactics etc latter - off to Uni for a lecture on the Foundations of Politics at the moment!!
IC/FA/MC/IDRO/DC/EO/TPO plus various other jobs during the period......
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Bristol
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IDF
You are forgetting all the TWCU Hunters deployed at Colt, Newcastle and Aberdeen etc. The 527th Aggressors out of Alconbury with either F5's or F16's depending on year. Add in the F4E "Sloegins" out of Iceland with EC121 or E3A and KC135. and if you look at the reforger exercises you'll have a good idea of what went were.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
P.s.
We assigned codes to other aircraft types, but only the RAF used them. Everyone else used the USAFE manual and fuel and weapon codes which IIRC was a 4 digit consisting of fuel in thousands of Lbs, hundreds of Lbs. Semi-active M. And IR Mx.
Thigh a USAF pilot was more likely to report it as "22 is 10 over 4 tanks dry, 4 heaters and 2 shooters, Sir".....
We assigned codes to other aircraft types, but only the RAF used them. Everyone else used the USAFE manual and fuel and weapon codes which IIRC was a 4 digit consisting of fuel in thousands of Lbs, hundreds of Lbs. Semi-active M. And IR Mx.
Thigh a USAF pilot was more likely to report it as "22 is 10 over 4 tanks dry, 4 heaters and 2 shooters, Sir".....
Originally Posted by ExRAFRadar
Late last night the RAF lost all 3 SOC's to ASM. Wattisham and Leuchers are Black because Kitchens hit the 'Access to Runway' targets. Basically they destroyed the taxi path into the runway stopping aircraft taking off.
I guess you are just gaming the air defence of the UK as there's no mention of what we're doing to them?
I once read, or at least had translated for me, the "War Book" from an East German fighter base...the HVAA had the whole wing flying supersonic at treetop height then pulling into the vertical and loosing off everything they had at the belly of the AWACS. Not sure how the 2 CAP jets would have dealt with that!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 68
Posts: 5,566
Likes: 0
Received 45 Likes
on
30 Posts
Does anyone remember JIPS involving the stationing of an air defence destroyer in the North Sea?
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 68
Posts: 5,566
Likes: 0
Received 45 Likes
on
30 Posts
I once read, or at least had translated for me, the "War Book" from an East German fighter base...the HVAA had the whole wing flying supersonic at treetop height then pulling into the vertical and loosing off everything they had at the belly of the AWACS. Not sure how the 2 CAP jets would have dealt with that!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: London
Age: 58
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not worthy. Many thanks to all.
ORAC - Im going to use the Peacetime tactical callsigns. Know it's not realistic but seems to add to the immersion.
What we are doing to them is abstracted. I plan to offer variants to the scenario and eventually build it up to a Theater wide scenario.
Just need a Cray to run it on...
Re the accuracy of the AS4's. To be fair they are the ARM version and once they pick up the radar they tend not to miss. But I will query the accuracy with the Devs of the Tercom versions as for 1985 they do seem awfully accurate.
ORAC - Im going to use the Peacetime tactical callsigns. Know it's not realistic but seems to add to the immersion.
What we are doing to them is abstracted. I plan to offer variants to the scenario and eventually build it up to a Theater wide scenario.
Just need a Cray to run it on...
Re the accuracy of the AS4's. To be fair they are the ARM version and once they pick up the radar they tend not to miss. But I will query the accuracy with the Devs of the Tercom versions as for 1985 they do seem awfully accurate.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: London
Age: 58
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AS4 accuracy
In a thread on the game site I am querying the lack of ability to fire the AS4 ARM on a 'Bearing Only Launch' until the carrier has detected the radar. Seems a bit unrealistic to me. But another scenario designer wrote this.
"I just tried it out, it seems impossible to launch the AS-4 Kitchen ARM with a bearing only attack. It always says "target out of range" in the weapon allocation window. Which is a shame, really, because blind firing anti radar missiles on suspected enemy emitter locations is a pretty common tactic.
It seems you have to target the missile on actual emitter targets, and the ESM gear in the Blinder seems rather short ranged.
A good and also plausible workaround is to have a dedicated EW plane fly with the ARM-shooters. In my test, I used a Badger J. It is able to pin down the emitters at much longer range and it can also jam the enemy radars, which is a good idea anyway, since I had one AS-4 actually shot down by an I-Hawk site it was targeting.
When using jamming support, another missile went through, however, and scored a direct hit on an air traffic control radar. It took out the radar and the whole airfield around it with its 350 kt warhead.
"
Just goes to show you can shoot the blighters down. But a 350Kt nuke will ruin your day.
"I just tried it out, it seems impossible to launch the AS-4 Kitchen ARM with a bearing only attack. It always says "target out of range" in the weapon allocation window. Which is a shame, really, because blind firing anti radar missiles on suspected enemy emitter locations is a pretty common tactic.
It seems you have to target the missile on actual emitter targets, and the ESM gear in the Blinder seems rather short ranged.
A good and also plausible workaround is to have a dedicated EW plane fly with the ARM-shooters. In my test, I used a Badger J. It is able to pin down the emitters at much longer range and it can also jam the enemy radars, which is a good idea anyway, since I had one AS-4 actually shot down by an I-Hawk site it was targeting.
When using jamming support, another missile went through, however, and scored a direct hit on an air traffic control radar. It took out the radar and the whole airfield around it with its 350 kt warhead.
"Just goes to show you can shoot the blighters down. But a 350Kt nuke will ruin your day.