'Falklands' Most Daring Raid'

[reydelcastillo]

Replay to Marcantiland on post # 172 -

Thank You I did not know that , and this gives me the oportunity to express the following thought .- I have a deep respect for Historians and for those that have study the Conflict , they are the ones that have put together the accounts from both sides and are able to give us an accuracte account of what has happen .
We participants of the Conflict have only had a chance of live small parts in it , and this Historians and Persons who have study it are able to put together and show us a whole picture of whar=t has happen .- My respect to them -

[reydelcastillo]

For HS ,

Sir During the Conflict in the Islands :

Westighouse ANTPS 43 , 3D - Mayor Silva , later Brigadiere , author of the Book " Radar Malvinas " with a crew of 27 - The Radar with 3 consoles .- 220 NM Range - Air Force

Cardion ANTPS 44 , 2D .- Me - with 2 men , Radra with one console 200 NM Range - Part of the GADA 601 TRiple AAA -Army

Regards

[Yellow Sun]

When was ASMA actually introduced?

I don't know for sure, but probably 1980ish. Corporate did cause the roll-out to be accelerated and amended, units directly involved moved up the list very quickly. The link to ASI was invaluable. I cannot recall seeing any ASMA afloat until around 1984. The first attempts were none too reliable, but it improved rapidly after that.

By secret squirrel I was really 'abusing' station ops as a whole as the operational units had no direct access.

There really wasn't a need for squadron level access to ASMA and to provide it would have brought in a whole host of problems that it would not have been cost effective to address. Anyway, thrusting young flight commanders could cause enough mayhem with a direct dial telephone, giving them unsupervised access to a secure rapid comms system would have been a recipe for disaster!

YS

[high spirits]

Rey
Thanks, and I don't want to insult you so I will leave this thread. I remain unconvinced, mainly by your colloquial language versus your spelling. Some of it looks too deliberate for me.

If that offends, I apologise. I don't use the PM system through my own personal choice. As stated, I will take no further part in this thread, but sit back and watch with interest instead.

Regards

[TEEEJ]

HS,

I'm afraid that you are way off the mark. See posts on Military Photos by Reydelcastillo. Lots of posting history and information for you to pursue your theory.

View Profile: reydelcastillo - Military Photos

reydelcastillo | Foros Zona Militar

Reydelcastillo, thanks for your input to the various forums over the years.

[Pontius Navigator]

Back to one of the OP, Most Daring Raid.

Daring raid incontrovertibly; most daring, arguable.

Gritviken? Pebble Island? The Canberra attacks? The A4 in the Falkland Sound?

[reydelcastillo]

HS never leave the thread , there is no need to appolagise , we are the ones that appolagise because ou misspelings , remmeber English is not our native language .-

My Regards to You Sir .-

Thank You Mr TEEEJ is nice to read You Sir

I'm sure that as soon as Marcantiland and Cosmicomet wake Up ( because its already late in the morning ) both will be able to bring us pictures of the Bombing Raid and Marcantiland detail information of how was it that we knew ahead of time about this Daring Raids .-

I would also like to invite to the Forum Cris BV from Peru , a gentelman who has study in detail the Vulcan and Harrier operations in the Islands and Mr Jualbo from Spain , Ingeniere who has dedicated many years to analize each one of the air raids over the Falklands .-

[TheWizard]

Here we go again!!
Falklands bomb mission dismissed as 'RAF attempt to rewrite history' | This is Devon

[orca]

My 20/20 hindsight statement for the day.

Would anyone else agree that we seem to have missed a trick?

We knew the Vulcan couldn't disable the runway, which the Argentinians hadn't lengthened anyway.

The Shrike seems, however, to have been a master stroke. The radars were obviously supplying the Argentinians with surpic for anti-shipping Exocet launch as well as 155mm fire. They were plotting a rough position for the TF from where CAP and CAS missions popped up. They were supplying a RAP (of sorts) for inbound strikers and Tac AT. They were working with Oerlikon and Roland.

It seems to me that the RN didn't really consider a anti-radar push. If it had it would have ordered more recce. The anti-radar effort from the RAF involved all the staggering work that the rest of BB did - and would also give all the secondary effects that we can't really agree on. But at least it was a mission that could succeed - and in causing soft kill etc seems to have worked.

Question for the UK side of the house. Was the BB7 air burst plan considering radars? Why did we revert to bombing after so few Shrike sorties? Was it anything to do with the divert of a previous BB? Could a Vulcan carry a mixed load?

Any RN types care to comment on whether we did actually consider the radars a threat or was 'poking the eyes out' not considered? Was it another case of thinking they couldn't have got it to the FI - a la Roland?

[bast0n]

Harry Bensons book of the Junglies at war in and around the Falklands has some wonderful stuff.

Amazon

Amazon

One or two stories may make it near the top here.

D

[TEEEJ]

TheWizard

Here we go again!!

For those that haven't seen the article written by Sharkey.

Sharkey's World: November 2011

You can imagine Sharkey winding himself up into a frenzy while watching the programme tomorrow!

[FODPlod]

I'm sure every little bit helped, as long as it wasn't at the expense of other, more pressing needs.

[TEEEJ]

Links to images of damage to the runway at Stanley.

Note area which appears to tie-up to the rogue crater from Black Buck 1. Or is the remnants of the earth mounds used to simulate damage?

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2484/03pista.jpg

Images showing Black Buck 2 craters in the foreground.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5051/05pista.jpg

The other damage ringed is obviously not from Black Buck missions. Clearer image of the damage at following link. Lighter damage was created by bombs dropped from Harriers.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/808/02pista.jpg

From

Imágenes del conflicto de Malvinas < fotos > | Página 173 | Foros Zona Militar

[reydelcastillo]

Great Images , as you can see and then compare , being under Naval Bombardment is " No Party " but for those have been under the flight pass of the Vulcan it must have been " Hell on Earth " - The alerts from incoming British Ships approaching the coast line for Naval Bombardment was given to all troops , so was the alert of Approaching Vulcan , the difference is that there is no way you can dig a hole deep enough to protect yourself from a 1,000 # coming down from those Vulcan .- Look at the size of those holes - Amazing Pictures -

Navel Bombardment as well as Artillery fiering at you , you can hear the whisel of the projectil , and you get use to predict were it will hit , if the sound of the whistle increases its heading towards you , so more less you are aware were it will hit , I have spoken with those that were in the receiving end at the Airport and none of them mention a whistle sound , what they stated is that it looks like if the earth is going to flip upside down and that the shock waves were even felt inside the fox holes .-

In Reply to Mr Orca post : I don't know why they did't go streight to the Radars at the bigining of the conflict , we all know that if you knock them down you leave the enemy blind .-

[Courtney Mil]

Originally Posted by TEEEJ

For those that haven't seen the article written by Sharkey.

Thanks, TEEEJ, I hadn't seen it. It is striking in one particular way. Having started out by stating that there is bound to be a lot of single-service PR aaround the 30th Anniversary, Ward then embarks on one of THE most blatant single-service rants I've seen in a long time. And I'm sorry, but I'm not taken in for a moment by his 'justification' that this all about avoiding procurement mistakes today.

The RAF, as Ward says, played very much a supporting role apart from the front line assets he mentions. That is undeniable and down to equipment scales at the time. He and his wonderful Harrier mates would have gone hungry very quickly without it.

Originally Posted by Ward

The overall campaign is correctly perceived as a predominantly naval, amphibious and land force battle since, whilst the Royal Air Force contribution to success was considerable, it was mostly confined to personnel transport and logistics effort with a very small front-line part in the ground support of own forces. RAF forces directly involved in front-line operations were confined to one Vulcan, eight Harrier GR3s and one Chinook helicopter.

Interesting order in which to list the main players. Those that won the war and then the RAF. Hardly balanced. Actually, the war was won by the guys on the ground, with support from everyone else.

Originally Posted by Ward

But the Sea Harrier could not have achieved victory in the air war without the dedication and professionalism of all those embarked in the Task Force.

Or the people that kept your supply chain alive.

Originally Posted by Ward

The average age of these young lions was barely 20.

And the age of everyone else involved?

That 'paper' failed to convince me or hold my attention because it started out as just another piece of his self-opinionated FAA/RN/Harrier self-worship. Write something balanced instead. We already know how great the Harrier guys have always been.

For the record, I honestly believe that the Royal Navy is, in many ways, the most professinal of our armed forces and I fully recognise the magnificent job they did in the South Atlantic. It is Ward's 'Paper' that fails to impress, not the subject of his writing.

[orca]

Courtney,

What always amuses me (about the 'bl##dy crabs' arguments) is that there were so many Sea Harriers being flown by RAF pilots as well. Just to rattle some names off the top of my head you get Penfold, Morgan, Barton, Mortimer, Leeming.

I think that quite amazingly Pprune has managed to keep this particular thread intelligent and informative. The discussion about what BB did, didn't and could have achieved have been mature in the extreme for us!

The insight from the Argentine perspective has been fascinating.

[Courtney Mil]

Orca,

Yes, I agree. In particular, I'm enjoying the input from our Argentinean (Argentinian?) friends. And there is a lot of really good stuff coming out here. Most of it very well ballanced and well considered.

The importint thing in this case (back to the OP) is that the raid WAS daring. I didn't need Ward to spend a whole 'paper' telling us what a poor contribution the RAF made - doesn't detract from the great job the SHars and Hars did in '82. Perhaps just heading off the thought that someone might steal a tiny corner of his limelight.

The recognition of the RAF SHar guys is appreciated.

[Marcantilan]

Well, documenting my previous posts.

Regarding Argentine intelligence about plane departing from Ascension Island.



Look at # 515 (this is I Mech Br war diary. The Br was operating in the coastline, protecting Santa Cruz): Yellow alert, two Vulcans departed from Ascension island 290300May82, received from BAM (Military Air Base, San Julian in this case) And this is just one example.

Regarding previous knowledge of Shrike using. AAF operators trained since the beginning for anti radar procedures (also they developed a switch to turn off the radar from outside it). They "sensed" that Shrike will be given by US, but they think Harrier gr.3 will be the platform of choice.

On BB5, "certain" signals were obtained, and the TPS-43F radar was shut down several times, complicating the Vulcan target aquisition and, finally, just one of the missiles was a near miss (or a near hit?). The story was told by Mj Silva on his book about the radar (Diario de guerra del Radar Malvinas, Editorial Dunken, Buenos Aires, 2007 - I have my signed copy here)

About reydelcastillo, yes, he was there and he is who is claiming. I could assure that.

Regards!

[Courtney Mil]

Wow. A great piece of history. Thank you.

[glad rag]

The insight from the Argentine perspective has been fascinating.

Indeed it has. "And by the way, Kelpers were traited much better than"

So 30 years on and nothing has changed.