'Falklands' Most Daring Raid'
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Archimedes,
Yes, absolutely spot on. PN and myself were just musing as to whether the use of training ammunition for the Oerlikon actually meant hitting anyone - hence just the AAA vs SHAR in my first post and AAA vs GR3 in the second.
I don't know if anyone can seperate AAA from small arms fire in these instances?
Regards,
Orca.
Yes, absolutely spot on. PN and myself were just musing as to whether the use of training ammunition for the Oerlikon actually meant hitting anyone - hence just the AAA vs SHAR in my first post and AAA vs GR3 in the second.
I don't know if anyone can seperate AAA from small arms fire in these instances?
Regards,
Orca.
It's simpler than that. Rounds of a different mass or with a different propellent have significantly ballistics from the ones the system is set up to use. So if the system is programmed to use HE, the ball rounds won't just go further, they will go somewhere else.
Wasn't on Black Buck (civilian by then) but spent six years on tankers so I found the whole thing thoroughly absorbing. Yes, as always there will be nitpicks but this is a programme made for a non-professional audience, and I thought it a lot better than many I've seen.
Martin Withers and his crew were naturally given centre stage, but it was good to see Bob Tuxford and his crew featured as well.
Funny to think that when I first arrived at Marham I thought Dick Russell was an incredibly ancient pilot - now he seems younger at around 80 than he did 40 years ago! Also nice to see my old captain Jerry Price - the good-looking bugger's got a lot more hair than I have!
Most enjoyable
Martin Withers and his crew were naturally given centre stage, but it was good to see Bob Tuxford and his crew featured as well.
Funny to think that when I first arrived at Marham I thought Dick Russell was an incredibly ancient pilot - now he seems younger at around 80 than he did 40 years ago! Also nice to see my old captain Jerry Price - the good-looking bugger's got a lot more hair than I have!
Most enjoyable
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The Harrier >> David Morgan: The Sea Harrier's Baptism of Fire - Global Aviation Resource
Im talking about damage that could been inflicted by 35 mm Skyguards not about shoot down Airplanes
The Harrier >> David Morgan: The Sea Harrier's Baptism of Fire - Global Aviation Resource
as Pilot's MOrgan's Plane - Sea Harrier -
There are some other pictures with Airplanes with holes as the one shown here on Pilot Morgan's Airplane .- It will take me some time to find them , ill bring them as I find them .- The hole in this picture is an ordinance that did not explode , either because it was meant not to explode ( excersise amo , or because it fail to explode ) -
Im talking about damage that could been inflicted by 35 mm Skyguards not about shoot down Airplanes
The Harrier >> David Morgan: The Sea Harrier's Baptism of Fire - Global Aviation Resource
as Pilot's MOrgan's Plane - Sea Harrier -
There are some other pictures with Airplanes with holes as the one shown here on Pilot Morgan's Airplane .- It will take me some time to find them , ill bring them as I find them .- The hole in this picture is an ordinance that did not explode , either because it was meant not to explode ( excersise amo , or because it fail to explode ) -
Last edited by reydelcastillo; 18th Mar 2012 at 22:32.
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Reply to Mr Courtney Mill
Both Excersise and Real Amo have the same wight , Mass and Propelent .- Obviouly the Excersise amo does not have autodestruction .- That is why it will continue its route towards the intendent target .-
Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav
Most enjoyable
Actually, it was a very daring mission. The programme filled in a lot of gaps from while I was watching them depart from and (thankfully) arrive back at Wideawake.
reydelcastillo,
Ah, I see. Excuse my ignorance in this. So this is ground to air artillery? I was thinking HE that fused on impact, so didn't understand the difference in range. Got it now. Thank you.
Ah, I see. Excuse my ignorance in this. So this is ground to air artillery? I was thinking HE that fused on impact, so didn't understand the difference in range. Got it now. Thank you.
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Hi Sir , no this is Triple AAA .- I was making reference about 35 mm Triple AAA -
Why did we take fake amo / Excersise amo to the conflict , because one of the adjustments that need to be done is to check that both canons have theire projectiles meet at certain point in space , they call this fictitious point wrere projectils from both canons meet .- For that matter excersise amo is used -
Why did we take fake amo / Excersise amo to the conflict , because one of the adjustments that need to be done is to check that both canons have theire projectiles meet at certain point in space , they call this fictitious point wrere projectils from both canons meet .- For that matter excersise amo is used -
reydelcastillo
The round that hit Dave Morgan's Tail Fin on 1st May 82 most likely either exploded after it passed though the tail (most impact fused AA warheads are designed to have a short delay so that they explode inside the target if they hit it so that all of the explosive effect does some form of damage) or the deceleration of it going through the skins of the tail was not enough for the fuze to operate.
The round that hit Dave Morgan's Tail Fin on 1st May 82 most likely either exploded after it passed though the tail (most impact fused AA warheads are designed to have a short delay so that they explode inside the target if they hit it so that all of the explosive effect does some form of damage) or the deceleration of it going through the skins of the tail was not enough for the fuze to operate.
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MAINJAFAD its a valid option , but my observeations would be : Bulet came from left to right , if exploded after passing through , sharpnel should be seen on this right side of the Fin since the explosion sends sharpnel in all directions .- That is why I think in this example it either hit and not explode , or hit with fake amo -
Regards Sir
Regards Sir
If you can't see it any other way, here's my version with the adverts cut out.
Black Buck
MP4 version. Take you 3 mins to download, then it's yours to watch.
Higher Res, streaming version to follow tomorrow.
Black Buck
MP4 version. Take you 3 mins to download, then it's yours to watch.
Higher Res, streaming version to follow tomorrow.
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What we post here is just bit and pieces of a conflict that happen in 1982.- It will bring small stories from those that have been in the Islands and from those that have supported the troops ..-
It will certeinly not change the outcome , because the outcome happen allready 30 years ago but will bring us the oportunity to find out small details that may not be yet in History Books .-
With all Respect to The Troops from Both Countries that 30 Years Ago meet at what I will call " The last of the Conventional Wars " .-
To Marcous Point : As you have seen Marcantiland , has dedicated many years to the Submarine World , his studies , Writings and Books are aimed in that direction , this is a Pilot / Aircraft Forum and Marcantiland is eager to show us what has happen underwater during the conflict .- How can we make this happen without making the Moderators angry at us ? Thanks
It will certeinly not change the outcome , because the outcome happen allready 30 years ago but will bring us the oportunity to find out small details that may not be yet in History Books .-
With all Respect to The Troops from Both Countries that 30 Years Ago meet at what I will call " The last of the Conventional Wars " .-
To Marcous Point : As you have seen Marcantiland , has dedicated many years to the Submarine World , his studies , Writings and Books are aimed in that direction , this is a Pilot / Aircraft Forum and Marcantiland is eager to show us what has happen underwater during the conflict .- How can we make this happen without making the Moderators angry at us ? Thanks
On a Lighter note, I saw Reydelcastillo's radar at RAF Locking when I was in the back end of trade training in 1985. Does anybody know what finally became of it (they were going to put it into service as the Radar Type 100 at one point but that never happened).
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Was that the ANTPS 43 Westihghiuse , or the ANTPS 44 Cardion ?
I know that the Westinghouse had been put back in service and use in the Reserve Force and I've been told to track civilians Small Airplanes to assure that they complie with speed and altitude .- This was a 3 D Radar .-
I know that the Westinghouse had been put back in service and use in the Reserve Force and I've been told to track civilians Small Airplanes to assure that they complie with speed and altitude .- This was a 3 D Radar .-
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Not sure about the surveillance radars.
I know that the 'fun police' used captured Argentine Skyguard in the UK Low Flying System. Bizarrely enough it was one of few threats that the, similarly named, Sky Guardian (Sea Jet RWR) would spell out in full.
I thought the practice was (how to put this politely?) disappointing!
Sorry - thread drift - back to the heroes!
I know that the 'fun police' used captured Argentine Skyguard in the UK Low Flying System. Bizarrely enough it was one of few threats that the, similarly named, Sky Guardian (Sea Jet RWR) would spell out in full.
I thought the practice was (how to put this politely?) disappointing!
Sorry - thread drift - back to the heroes!
Off Topic
The one at Locking was the TPS-44 (Cardion Alert Mk 2)
The Westinghouse TPS-43F was put into Regular RAF Service as the Radar Type 99 and was used until the late 1990's when it was then sold to Pakistan. One of the Unit's I served on were the first to use it (RAF Wattisham), though it had been passed on to another unit by the time I got posted on to that unit. However it did deploy to my next unit for a few weeks in the early 1990's and I've had a good look around it while in operation. Horrible purple CRT displays in it though !!!
The Skyguard radars we captured were also used (along with the guns) to form an Auxiliary RAF Regiment squadron at Waddington during the back end of the cold war, though they then disbanded and the radar's went to RAF Spadeadam to be used as threat emitters for EW training of aircrew. It was one of the them that is now used to monitor low flying areas.
Like wise back on topic
The one at Locking was the TPS-44 (Cardion Alert Mk 2)
The Westinghouse TPS-43F was put into Regular RAF Service as the Radar Type 99 and was used until the late 1990's when it was then sold to Pakistan. One of the Unit's I served on were the first to use it (RAF Wattisham), though it had been passed on to another unit by the time I got posted on to that unit. However it did deploy to my next unit for a few weeks in the early 1990's and I've had a good look around it while in operation. Horrible purple CRT displays in it though !!!
The Skyguard radars we captured were also used (along with the guns) to form an Auxiliary RAF Regiment squadron at Waddington during the back end of the cold war, though they then disbanded and the radar's went to RAF Spadeadam to be used as threat emitters for EW training of aircrew. It was one of the them that is now used to monitor low flying areas.
Like wise back on topic
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I've PM Marcantiland told him to bring us the Info on Subs , British Subs , Ours and the Russians during the conflict ,- He has some amazing pictures and details .-
Curiosities during the conflict :
1) On may 1st in the afternoon while clearly looking at the ships that approach to initiate the first Naval Bombardment , the upper tower of a Sub came above water close to the Ships , Not only me but several others saw it from on top of Sapper Hill .- A Pac from Mainland came in and atacked the ships , they retrieved just to come back at night .- What I saw as Sub disapear but I have ask in other forums and the answere was : It would have been against normal procedures to put your head above water in combate .- Others told me : Well you never know what those underwater guys may do , maybe they just wanted to see the Fireworks .-
2) That may 1st was the only time the ships came so close to land , the Roland as I told you was at the Bottom of Sapper Hill protecting the Radar , talking after the conflict with Regalini ( Comanding Officer for the Roland ) he told me .- That afternoon before our Airplanes show Up ,he had engage the ship that was closer to us . And I ask him why didn't you shoot , he told me :
Enrique I only had 10 missils If I shoot and miss , what explanation would I give to the Coronel , worse still If I shoot and hit can you figure out how angry they will get at us , they are going to be playing PingBall with us all day long - We are going to spend the rest of the War in a Fox Hole while this guys spend all theire amo only on us .-
He really thought that even doe the Ship had been engage , the shoot of the missil would have need to go in a streight line at only a few feet above ground and above water , and could eassily hit someones head , or a wave .-
Curiosities during the conflict :
1) On may 1st in the afternoon while clearly looking at the ships that approach to initiate the first Naval Bombardment , the upper tower of a Sub came above water close to the Ships , Not only me but several others saw it from on top of Sapper Hill .- A Pac from Mainland came in and atacked the ships , they retrieved just to come back at night .- What I saw as Sub disapear but I have ask in other forums and the answere was : It would have been against normal procedures to put your head above water in combate .- Others told me : Well you never know what those underwater guys may do , maybe they just wanted to see the Fireworks .-
2) That may 1st was the only time the ships came so close to land , the Roland as I told you was at the Bottom of Sapper Hill protecting the Radar , talking after the conflict with Regalini ( Comanding Officer for the Roland ) he told me .- That afternoon before our Airplanes show Up ,he had engage the ship that was closer to us . And I ask him why didn't you shoot , he told me :
Enrique I only had 10 missils If I shoot and miss , what explanation would I give to the Coronel , worse still If I shoot and hit can you figure out how angry they will get at us , they are going to be playing PingBall with us all day long - We are going to spend the rest of the War in a Fox Hole while this guys spend all theire amo only on us .-
He really thought that even doe the Ship had been engage , the shoot of the missil would have need to go in a streight line at only a few feet above ground and above water , and could eassily hit someones head , or a wave .-