Spitfire crash landing in Scotland WW11
Thread Starter
A recent updated article in the local Scottish newspaper lends credence to squintys theory.
The conditions are the same and the location is exact, only the aircraft type and pilot nationality differ :-
The fuller article appears here :-Ronn
I have been totaly occupied all week but plan to check on the name leads supplied when time allows this week. Thanks for the leads !
El G.
The conditions are the same and the location is exact, only the aircraft type and pilot nationality differ :-
Mr Phaup, who says he was in his 20s at the time of the next incident, says this involved a Hurricane fighter being flown by a Norwegian.
“It too came out of the fog and made a couple of attempts to land in front of the house at Ashkirk Town. He then tried to land at Headshaw, where there was some flat ground, but the aircraft went into some ditches and turned over. It happened opposite the old quarry.
“People from Selkirk came up on their bicycles to look at the aircraft. We went up to see it as well. It was lying upside down and RAF men were taking it apart and putting it on a low-loader to take away.
“Police told us the pilot had been a Norwegian and he’d survived just a broken nose after running out of fuel.”
“It too came out of the fog and made a couple of attempts to land in front of the house at Ashkirk Town. He then tried to land at Headshaw, where there was some flat ground, but the aircraft went into some ditches and turned over. It happened opposite the old quarry.
“People from Selkirk came up on their bicycles to look at the aircraft. We went up to see it as well. It was lying upside down and RAF men were taking it apart and putting it on a low-loader to take away.
“Police told us the pilot had been a Norwegian and he’d survived just a broken nose after running out of fuel.”
The fuller article appears here :-Ronn
I have been totaly occupied all week but plan to check on the name leads supplied when time allows this week. Thanks for the leads !
El G.
Thread Starter
Thanks glojo !
Just back on it now and sadly the suggestion of footpad6 bears no fruit, as the site is only open to US residents.
Can anyone help ?
Just back on it now and sadly the suggestion of footpad6 bears no fruit, as the site is only open to US residents.
Can anyone help ?
People Finder shows a Harold A Raasch still living in Sunnyvale - with a 61 year old relative (could this be a Grandson?)
Search Results - PeopleFinders.com
Search Results - PeopleFinders.com
Thread Starter
As with many situations like this, any search comes up with more questions than answers !
We know what sparked this whole thing off, from my very first post.
We know that a man called Harold A. Raasch checked into a B+B in 1984 in Selkirk and re-visited several times over subsequent years.
We know that this man was at least provably, partly on the level as his supplied address ties up with the searches people have done and demonstrated here on Pprune.
We know he died in 1990, because his daughter called the B+B lady to let her know.
What we cannot find, is any record of anyone of that name flying the UK military during WW11.
Neither can we find any record of a Sptifire crash landing at Headshaw Farm and the pilot walking away.
What we can find, is an eyewitness report of a Hurricane with a Norwegian Pilot crash landing in almost identical circumstances, in exactly the same place and walking from the site with only minor injuries. See below :-
Curiouser and curiouser !
What we also know is that a Harold A Raasch was groundcrew for 40 squadron, 6th bomber group and became a POW at Shuman, BUL camp on 03 July 1944.
One of our more forward thinking contributers here came up with a very interesting idea
This idea, although only an idea, ticks most of the boxes.
Anyone who might have any other idea, is most welcome to share it here or via pm.
The closest we got to tracing at least family of Harold A. Raasch was supplied by another ardent Ppruner. Unfortunately the lead on site is only available within the US.
If anyone from the US would care to pick up on the lead I of course would be very grateful. Look at entry #3
Search Results - PeopleFinders.com
I am far from abandoning the search, I could simply do with some help with locating the Craig L Raasch who is stated as being a possible relative.
Come on Americans, join in the search !!
Thanks for all of the help I have received so far. You never know where the next bit of information will come from. It may be the bit that ties this whole tale together !
Cheers
El Grifo
We know what sparked this whole thing off, from my very first post.
We know that a man called Harold A. Raasch checked into a B+B in 1984 in Selkirk and re-visited several times over subsequent years.
We know that this man was at least provably, partly on the level as his supplied address ties up with the searches people have done and demonstrated here on Pprune.
We know he died in 1990, because his daughter called the B+B lady to let her know.
What we cannot find, is any record of anyone of that name flying the UK military during WW11.
Neither can we find any record of a Sptifire crash landing at Headshaw Farm and the pilot walking away.
What we can find, is an eyewitness report of a Hurricane with a Norwegian Pilot crash landing in almost identical circumstances, in exactly the same place and walking from the site with only minor injuries. See below :-
Mr Phaup, who says he was in his 20s at the time of the next incident, says this involved a Hurricane fighter being flown by a Norwegian.
“It too came out of the fog and made a couple of attempts to land in front of the house at Ashkirk Town. He then tried to land at Headshaw, where there was some flat ground, but the aircraft went into some ditches and turned over. It happened opposite the old quarry.
“People from Selkirk came up on their bicycles to look at the aircraft. We went up to see it as well. It was lying upside down and RAF men were taking it apart and putting it on a low-loader to take away.
“Police told us the pilot had been a Norwegian and he’d survived just a broken nose after running out of fuel.”
“It too came out of the fog and made a couple of attempts to land in front of the house at Ashkirk Town. He then tried to land at Headshaw, where there was some flat ground, but the aircraft went into some ditches and turned over. It happened opposite the old quarry.
“People from Selkirk came up on their bicycles to look at the aircraft. We went up to see it as well. It was lying upside down and RAF men were taking it apart and putting it on a low-loader to take away.
“Police told us the pilot had been a Norwegian and he’d survived just a broken nose after running out of fuel.”
What we also know is that a Harold A Raasch was groundcrew for 40 squadron, 6th bomber group and became a POW at Shuman, BUL camp on 03 July 1944.
One of our more forward thinking contributers here came up with a very interesting idea
I think that Harold A Raasch was groundcrew for 40 squadron, 6th bomber group and spent some time in a POW camp.
At this POW camp he met the pilot of the crash landed aircraft. They developed a lasting friendship due to some act of kindess or life saving action.
The pilot relates the crashlanding to Raasch and some significance to this event is implied.
After the war, the pilot died and Raasch travels annually to the crash site in remembrance of the pilot and their war experience.
Raasch found it easier to say that he was the pilot and thus not have a long emotional story to tell. On his visit to El Grifo he finds out that the whole town is abuzz with his story and would rather discretely withdraw.
At this POW camp he met the pilot of the crash landed aircraft. They developed a lasting friendship due to some act of kindess or life saving action.
The pilot relates the crashlanding to Raasch and some significance to this event is implied.
After the war, the pilot died and Raasch travels annually to the crash site in remembrance of the pilot and their war experience.
Raasch found it easier to say that he was the pilot and thus not have a long emotional story to tell. On his visit to El Grifo he finds out that the whole town is abuzz with his story and would rather discretely withdraw.
Anyone who might have any other idea, is most welcome to share it here or via pm.
The closest we got to tracing at least family of Harold A. Raasch was supplied by another ardent Ppruner. Unfortunately the lead on site is only available within the US.
If anyone from the US would care to pick up on the lead I of course would be very grateful. Look at entry #3
Search Results - PeopleFinders.com
I am far from abandoning the search, I could simply do with some help with locating the Craig L Raasch who is stated as being a possible relative.
Come on Americans, join in the search !!
Thanks for all of the help I have received so far. You never know where the next bit of information will come from. It may be the bit that ties this whole tale together !
Cheers
El Grifo
This idea, although only an idea, ticks most of the boxes.
El Grifo,
The POW idea sounds feasible. Need to find out who the Norwegian was that was piloting the aircraft and what happened to him. The other problem with this scenario is why state a Spitfire when it was a Hurricane. It’s not as if Mr Raasch would not know one end of an aircraft from the other being a groundie.
Good luck
The POW idea sounds feasible. Need to find out who the Norwegian was that was piloting the aircraft and what happened to him. The other problem with this scenario is why state a Spitfire when it was a Hurricane. It’s not as if Mr Raasch would not know one end of an aircraft from the other being a groundie.
Good luck
Given that the Luftwaffe's finest often defaulted to "Achtung Spitfeuer" even if being attacked by Hurricanes, I don't see Mr Raasch's confusion as being very significant. Why, when we flew the pride of the RAF into a USAF base we often had to explain the Handley Page Hastings to them as a "4 engined Gooney Bird", I mean! Perhaps our Norwegian pilot explained his steed as being "a bit like a Spitfire"?
Thread Starter
I will certainly start searching for the Hurricane incident and anyone is welcome to get on the case. Give it a go Chugalug, it can be quite interesting
But for now, we are getting new leads on Harold A Raasch.
Having come this far in that particular direction, it would be a tough call to dilute efforts !
After all, the answer will surely lie with any remaining members of the Raasch family.
Thanks All !
El G.
But for now, we are getting new leads on Harold A Raasch.
Having come this far in that particular direction, it would be a tough call to dilute efforts !
After all, the answer will surely lie with any remaining members of the Raasch family.
Thanks All !
El G.
Thread Starter
Still at it
A resourceful sleuth came up with some details which fit the bill almost perfecty. Sadly the site in question does not accept international credit cards.
Would there be a benevolent soul out there in the US willing to spend a few bucks getting the details so that I can call the various members of the family.
Check the second entry down.
Find People Named Cheryl Smith In Los Altos, CA - Intelius.com
Would there be a benevolent soul out there in the US willing to spend a few bucks getting the details so that I can call the various members of the family.
Check the second entry down.
Find People Named Cheryl Smith In Los Altos, CA - Intelius.com
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Further details on Spitfire EP276 from earlier in the thread that force landed at Glentress, Peebles, 25/06/44. The pilot was S/Ldr Douglas Ian Benham. (Later W/Cdr. DFC. AFC. OBE). The original hand writing is a little hard to make out in places but the engine stopped owing to lack of fuel and pilot executed a forced landing in field with wheels up. Aircraft and the Merlin 45 both Cat E. "30 gall's of petrol found in top tank. Mod 450 not carried out". In the "Blame and Discip. Action" section the Senior NCO and Cpl Fitter were in the naughty book as "not conversant with type", and, "wrong non modified tank fitted".
W/Cdr.Douglas Benham died in Withybush Hospital, Haverfordwest, 28/10/2009.
W/Cdr.Douglas Benham died in Withybush Hospital, Haverfordwest, 28/10/2009.
Thread Starter
Interesting bit of sleuthing there goofer !
Still no further down the road to clarfying the supposed facts surrounding the tale of Harold A. Raasch.
Had an email from Headshaw Farm tonight, but it just covers facts already known.
The possible contact in the US seems reluctant to communicate.
I think I may try and force his had in the next few days. Nothing to lose really !
El G.
Still no further down the road to clarfying the supposed facts surrounding the tale of Harold A. Raasch.
Had an email from Headshaw Farm tonight, but it just covers facts already known.
The possible contact in the US seems reluctant to communicate.
I think I may try and force his had in the next few days. Nothing to lose really !
El G.
Thread Starter
Nope, nothing ! Despite the father of the visitor to my shop and the alleged pilot, promising to come back to me with clarification after lent (man of the cloth you see) I have heard nothing.
I emailed him again asking if he was now in a quieter period and if so could we pick up where we left off. Up until now, nada !!
I can only assume there is some kind of family issue here, something that he does not want to share.
Sad really because this is trully a mystery that I would like to solve. I have carried it for many years !
Thanks
El G.
Edited to add :-
Personally I think Skwinty has cracked it based on the fact that a Norwegian pilot was reported locally to have crash landed in almost I identical circumstances at the exact same location and walked from the wreck :-
I emailed him again asking if he was now in a quieter period and if so could we pick up where we left off. Up until now, nada !!
I can only assume there is some kind of family issue here, something that he does not want to share.
Sad really because this is trully a mystery that I would like to solve. I have carried it for many years !
Thanks
El G.
Edited to add :-
Personally I think Skwinty has cracked it based on the fact that a Norwegian pilot was reported locally to have crash landed in almost I identical circumstances at the exact same location and walked from the wreck :-
I think that Harold A Raasch was groundcrew for 40 squadron, 6th bomber group and spent some time in a POW camp.
At this POW camp he met the pilot of the crash landed aircraft. They developed a lasting friendship due to some act of kindess or life saving action.
The pilot relates the crashlanding to Raasch and some significance to this event is implied.
After the war, the pilot died and Raasch travels annually to the crash site in remembrance of the pilot and their war experience.
Raasch found it easier to say that he was the pilot and thus not have a long emotional story to tell. On his visit to El Grifo he finds out that the whole town is abuzz with his story and would rather discretely withdraw.
At this POW camp he met the pilot of the crash landed aircraft. They developed a lasting friendship due to some act of kindess or life saving action.
The pilot relates the crashlanding to Raasch and some significance to this event is implied.
After the war, the pilot died and Raasch travels annually to the crash site in remembrance of the pilot and their war experience.
Raasch found it easier to say that he was the pilot and thus not have a long emotional story to tell. On his visit to El Grifo he finds out that the whole town is abuzz with his story and would rather discretely withdraw.
Last edited by El Grifo; 25th Jun 2012 at 17:07.
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You have put an amazing amount of research into this project and how sad that you have not got the ending we were all hoping for. Is your e-mail definitely getting opened? I am just thinking that as the years go by then sadly Anno Domini tends to pull rank 
Thread Starter
Nada !
Looks like my quest has reached an inconclusive conclusion !!
The Father of the alleged pilot, or to be 100% precise, the father of Harold A Raasch, a man of the cloth no less, after initially agreeing to assist in my quest, has now turned feral for some reason.
In response to my recent email asking if he was available for discussion yet, the content included :-
I explained to him that his Father came to me, I did not go to him. It did not help.
Guess that is game over.
LIke most good mysteries, the more one learns the more questions are raised.
It is more of a mystery now than it was at the outset !
I have at no point identified the person with whom I am in communication with therefore feel it is not inappropriate to share his communication, seeing that this thread hs gone on for so long and has created quite some interest.
The Father of the alleged pilot, or to be 100% precise, the father of Harold A Raasch, a man of the cloth no less, after initially agreeing to assist in my quest, has now turned feral for some reason.
In response to my recent email asking if he was available for discussion yet, the content included :-
I'm asking you to stop and refrain from any more research into the life of my father. You do not have my permission to continue with any more research, let alone filling in the gaps with some crazy story that has nothing to do with my father. I've made the request and will not make it again. Any more research on your part, and contacts with me, and I will contact a third person to deal with this.
I do not know what kind of emotional needs you have in pursuing this. Do not contact me again. I kindly encourage you to focus your energies on something else. You do not have my permission to pursue any more information about my deceased father. For you to turn this around, focusing only on you and your needs, displays gross misunderstanding of privacy and respect. Do not contact me again. I am bringing this matter now to the attention of my lawyer because you have not respected my privacy or the memory of a member of my family. All future emails from you will remain unopened
Guess that is game over.
LIke most good mysteries, the more one learns the more questions are raised.
It is more of a mystery now than it was at the outset !
I have at no point identified the person with whom I am in communication with therefore feel it is not inappropriate to share his communication, seeing that this thread hs gone on for so long and has created quite some interest.
Last edited by El Grifo; 27th Jun 2012 at 16:17.
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I'm going to inject an element of the surreal into this now, but it could be worth thinking about
Assuming the Raasch you met WAS the man who was supposedly in the prison camp, how do we know that the "real" Rassch was the man who returned after the Russians liberated the prison? Or whether during his time with the Russians he was "turned"? It could explain the family reticence
I notice also from Google searches another Harold A Rassch who died in 2000 listed on the genealogical databases. Are you sure you have the correct man?
Assuming the Raasch you met WAS the man who was supposedly in the prison camp, how do we know that the "real" Rassch was the man who returned after the Russians liberated the prison? Or whether during his time with the Russians he was "turned"? It could explain the family reticence
I notice also from Google searches another Harold A Rassch who died in 2000 listed on the genealogical databases. Are you sure you have the correct man?