Spitfire crash landing in Scotland WW11
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I have been reading and watching a video about some scumbags in a so called church who are very nasty to servicemen.
They are also very nasty at servicemens funerals so I wonder if this man of the cloth is a member of said church and doesn't want
to be reminded that his father was once a decent chap as this so called man of the cloth would be extremely embarrassed in his church.
I cannot bring myself to use the capital C when talking about "that" church as to me it isn't a real Church.
They are also very nasty at servicemens funerals so I wonder if this man of the cloth is a member of said church and doesn't want
to be reminded that his father was once a decent chap as this so called man of the cloth would be extremely embarrassed in his church.
I cannot bring myself to use the capital C when talking about "that" church as to me it isn't a real Church.
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Spitfires 'tail end' . . .
I am in Calfornia on a flying holiday for the next four weeks if you would like me to do anything?
It maybe that he had told the story so many times in the US that he had come to believe it himself. However when he heard that someone was investigating the circumstances in detail he took fright?
Maybe the family are trying to protect his memory?
It is sorry to end this way as it has been an interesting ride . . . Maybe best to let sleeping dogs . . . . .
It maybe that he had told the story so many times in the US that he had come to believe it himself. However when he heard that someone was investigating the circumstances in detail he took fright?
Maybe the family are trying to protect his memory?
It is sorry to end this way as it has been an interesting ride . . . Maybe best to let sleeping dogs . . . . .
Thread Starter
If I posted the full content of the communication from "The Vicar" you would probably not want to go within a mile of the man.
I get the impression he my subscribe to the the armed version of christianity
Thanks anyway !
El G.
I get the impression he my subscribe to the the armed version of christianity
Thanks anyway !
El G.
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He wasn't ground crew
A Harold K Raasch, with the same service number of O-715095 is listed as a crewmember here Official Home of the 450th BG Association
He is listed as a POW, the name discrepancy must be a typo
He was a bombardier in 722nd Squadron of the 450th Bomb Group
He was in B-24H 42-52085 "Stinky's Siren" when it was lost over Rumania
This is the loss report
Official Home of the 450th BG Association
And to knock another theory on the head - theres no Norweigan listed on the records as a POW at that Shumen campsite
A Harold K Raasch, with the same service number of O-715095 is listed as a crewmember here Official Home of the 450th BG Association
He is listed as a POW, the name discrepancy must be a typo
He was a bombardier in 722nd Squadron of the 450th Bomb Group
He was in B-24H 42-52085 "Stinky's Siren" when it was lost over Rumania
This is the loss report
Official Home of the 450th BG Association
And to knock another theory on the head - theres no Norweigan listed on the records as a POW at that Shumen campsite
Last edited by Milo Minderbinder; 4th Jul 2012 at 01:55.
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El Grifo
There's been a bit of publicity recently about an act passed by George Bush back in 2006, (I think), it was called the Stolen Valour act. If the "vicars" dad was "playing the part" of someone else it's quite possible your vicar is a bit gunshy hence the attitude.
If I posted the full content of the communication from "The Vicar" you would probably not want to go within a mile of the man.
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From
Page 7, Evening Independent, March 3, 1947: NewspaperARCHIVE.com
"ANNOUNCEMENT is made of the marriage of Miss Janice Ken daughter of Mr and Mrs Walter Kennedy of Lake Cable rd to 1st Lt Harold A Raasch son of Mr and Mrs A J Raasch of Milwaukee The Rev William T Strong performed the ceremony in the First United church in San Francisco The bride wore a gray dressmaker suit with a shoulder corsage of white orchids Mrs Raasch is a graduate of the Andrew School for Girls at Willoughby and Canton Actual Business college and attended Kent State university Canton She was formerly with the Canterbury Book House Canton Lt Raasch attended the University of Wisconsin and Leyton Art school in Milwaukee He has been in the army air forces five years During hostilities he served in European theater He is now attached to the intelligence division of the air forces in Manila Mrs Raasch has returned to Canton and plans to join Lt Raasch in Manila"
Note - Canton and Willoughby are both in Ohio
From
Yahoo! Groups
(an old post from 2002)
"Dear Liberandos,
I just discovered your site and it's great.
Where do I find list of crew rosters? I believe that my father, Lt. Col.
Harold A. Raasch, USAAF Retired, who died February 2000, served with the
376st. I don't know if he flew on famous Aug. 1, 1943 raid, but I do know
that he was shot down over Giurgiu, Romania on July 3, 1944.
Any information would be gratefully appreciated.
Happy Holidays, Tim Raasch"
Checking through online records, the Harold A Raasch from Sebastopol California (who died in 2000 - not the 1990's) previously lived in Virginia and has two listed relatives - Craig and Jinky. NOT Tim. No record of a previous Wisconsin address.
However checking on the USA Social Security death records shows that he WAS born in Winconsin
see Harold A. Raasch: Death Record from the Social Security Death Index (SSDI) - GenealogyBank (you'll have to log in - its free)
So, assuming the guy gave his correct name, and that there wasn't another Harold A Raasch in the air force at the same time (and no-one so far has found one) - its the same chap
The only other Harold Raasch who died in the same period was in 1992 in Nebraska - where he was born
Harold Raasch Social Security Death Index (SSDI) Records - GenealogyBank
I wonder if Tim Raasch still has his Yahoo account live? It could be worth an attempt at contact. He at least was interested in 2002 in his fathers history.
After all, the guy had an interesting record: Bombardier, shot down, POW, then post war in intelligence in the Phillipines. Retired/left as Lt Col. Nothing to be ashamed of.
An obituary was published in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on 16 March 2000. It can be accesed via a paysite at
Harold Raasch Obituary - Search Harold Raasch Obituaries - GenealogyBank
Page 7, Evening Independent, March 3, 1947: NewspaperARCHIVE.com
"ANNOUNCEMENT is made of the marriage of Miss Janice Ken daughter of Mr and Mrs Walter Kennedy of Lake Cable rd to 1st Lt Harold A Raasch son of Mr and Mrs A J Raasch of Milwaukee The Rev William T Strong performed the ceremony in the First United church in San Francisco The bride wore a gray dressmaker suit with a shoulder corsage of white orchids Mrs Raasch is a graduate of the Andrew School for Girls at Willoughby and Canton Actual Business college and attended Kent State university Canton She was formerly with the Canterbury Book House Canton Lt Raasch attended the University of Wisconsin and Leyton Art school in Milwaukee He has been in the army air forces five years During hostilities he served in European theater He is now attached to the intelligence division of the air forces in Manila Mrs Raasch has returned to Canton and plans to join Lt Raasch in Manila"
Note - Canton and Willoughby are both in Ohio
From
Yahoo! Groups
(an old post from 2002)
"Dear Liberandos,
I just discovered your site and it's great.
Where do I find list of crew rosters? I believe that my father, Lt. Col.
Harold A. Raasch, USAAF Retired, who died February 2000, served with the
376st. I don't know if he flew on famous Aug. 1, 1943 raid, but I do know
that he was shot down over Giurgiu, Romania on July 3, 1944.
Any information would be gratefully appreciated.
Happy Holidays, Tim Raasch"
Checking through online records, the Harold A Raasch from Sebastopol California (who died in 2000 - not the 1990's) previously lived in Virginia and has two listed relatives - Craig and Jinky. NOT Tim. No record of a previous Wisconsin address.
However checking on the USA Social Security death records shows that he WAS born in Winconsin
see Harold A. Raasch: Death Record from the Social Security Death Index (SSDI) - GenealogyBank (you'll have to log in - its free)
So, assuming the guy gave his correct name, and that there wasn't another Harold A Raasch in the air force at the same time (and no-one so far has found one) - its the same chap
The only other Harold Raasch who died in the same period was in 1992 in Nebraska - where he was born
Harold Raasch Social Security Death Index (SSDI) Records - GenealogyBank
I wonder if Tim Raasch still has his Yahoo account live? It could be worth an attempt at contact. He at least was interested in 2002 in his fathers history.
After all, the guy had an interesting record: Bombardier, shot down, POW, then post war in intelligence in the Phillipines. Retired/left as Lt Col. Nothing to be ashamed of.
An obituary was published in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel on 16 March 2000. It can be accesed via a paysite at
Harold Raasch Obituary - Search Harold Raasch Obituaries - GenealogyBank
Last edited by Milo Minderbinder; 28th Jun 2012 at 18:51.
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now this is where the confusion starts
on this page we have listed a Harold A Raasch PFC who was groundcrew with 6th Bomb Group - and entitled to the "China Offensive Battle Star" which surely implies he'd be nowhere near Europe, let alone Scotland
The 6th Bomb Group: Ground Crew Listing - 40 BS
So - if this record is correct - there were two. Which one appeared in Scotland?
But if there were two - there is no death record in the USA for the relevant period
on this page we have listed a Harold A Raasch PFC who was groundcrew with 6th Bomb Group - and entitled to the "China Offensive Battle Star" which surely implies he'd be nowhere near Europe, let alone Scotland
The 6th Bomb Group: Ground Crew Listing - 40 BS
So - if this record is correct - there were two. Which one appeared in Scotland?
But if there were two - there is no death record in the USA for the relevant period
Last edited by Milo Minderbinder; 28th Jun 2012 at 15:56.
Thread Starter
The person who called the Bed+Breakfast establishment to advise of the passing of Harold Raaasch was his daughter. I spoke again to the proprietor a few minutes ago but sh has no records of address or phone number.
Can you help with any contact details ?
Maybe we can get this back on track
Can you help with any contact details ?
Maybe we can get this back on track
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Well, Jinky has to be either daughter or daughter-in-law, and there can't be many with that name
Which makes me think this Facebook account is hers
https://www.facebook.com/people/Jink...00000126392327
Looks like probably daughter in law
these are the details of the two relatives - both now in Virginia
Craig Raasch Address, Phone, Email & Records | PeopleFinders
Jinky Raasch Public Records, Phone Number & Address
Note Jinky has three entries
Can't get more without paying money
I can't see any way of tracing the daughter without a name
Which makes me think this Facebook account is hers
https://www.facebook.com/people/Jink...00000126392327
Looks like probably daughter in law
these are the details of the two relatives - both now in Virginia
Craig Raasch Address, Phone, Email & Records | PeopleFinders
Jinky Raasch Public Records, Phone Number & Address
Note Jinky has three entries
Can't get more without paying money
I can't see any way of tracing the daughter without a name
Last edited by Milo Minderbinder; 28th Jun 2012 at 18:46.
Thread Starter
Whist waiting for a facebok reply I found this :- Craig Raasch Address, Phone, Email & Records | PeopleFinders
Can't subscribe as it is for the US only
Can't subscribe as it is for the US only
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While I've been looking at this today I've become increasingly aware that this may be a case of mistaken location.
Raasch is a German name.
An Obfw F.Raasch was lost in a Ju-88 off Sumburgh Head, Shetland on 24/03/1943 see Aviation Research Group Orkney Shetland - Shetland Underwater Sites
I can't help wondering if the old chap was trying to find the resting place of a relative - maybe trying to complete his family tree and simply got the location wrong. To a non-local any Scots name beginning with S sounds much like any other. Selkirk / Sumburgh / Shetland....
I can see that he'd be shy of revealing his true intent, the Spitfire story would be close enough to bring up any memories of local crashes without revealing he was interested in German crashes
Total speculation based on very little, but somehow it has a better ring than anything else I've seen so far
Raasch is a German name.
An Obfw F.Raasch was lost in a Ju-88 off Sumburgh Head, Shetland on 24/03/1943 see Aviation Research Group Orkney Shetland - Shetland Underwater Sites
I can't help wondering if the old chap was trying to find the resting place of a relative - maybe trying to complete his family tree and simply got the location wrong. To a non-local any Scots name beginning with S sounds much like any other. Selkirk / Sumburgh / Shetland....
I can see that he'd be shy of revealing his true intent, the Spitfire story would be close enough to bring up any memories of local crashes without revealing he was interested in German crashes
Total speculation based on very little, but somehow it has a better ring than anything else I've seen so far
Thread Starter
The thing is Milo, Harold made around seven or more visits to the town from the mid seventies onwards always staying at the same place and often hiring a car to get around.
His story fits like a glove to the "Norwegian" tale same story same exact location, Hurricane not spitfire !
His story fits like a glove to the "Norwegian" tale same story same exact location, Hurricane not spitfire !
Mr Phaup, who says he was in his 20s at the time of the next incident, says this involved a Hurricane fighter being flown by a Norwegian.
“It too came out of the fog and made a couple of attempts to land in front of the house at Ashkirk Town. He then tried to land at Headshaw, where there was some flat ground, but the aircraft went into some ditches and turned over. It happened opposite the old quarry.
“People from Selkirk came up on their bicycles to look at the aircraft. We went up to see it as well. It was lying upside down and RAF men were taking it apart and putting it on a low-loader to take away.
“Police told us the pilot had been a Norwegian and he’d survived just a broken nose after running out of fuel.”
“It too came out of the fog and made a couple of attempts to land in front of the house at Ashkirk Town. He then tried to land at Headshaw, where there was some flat ground, but the aircraft went into some ditches and turned over. It happened opposite the old quarry.
“People from Selkirk came up on their bicycles to look at the aircraft. We went up to see it as well. It was lying upside down and RAF men were taking it apart and putting it on a low-loader to take away.
“Police told us the pilot had been a Norwegian and he’d survived just a broken nose after running out of fuel.”
Last edited by El Grifo; 28th Jun 2012 at 20:15.
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In which case, was the 722nd Squadron or the 450th Bomb Group ever based in the UK? Where would he have had a chance to meet a Norwegian pilot? Unlikely in Italy, which is where they were based when he crashed.
And as I said earlier, no record of a Norwegian in that prison camp
Thinking about it a bit more, the Norwegian theory could work IF the Norwegian pilot was one of those who was trained in Canada, and IF Rassch had crossed the border and enlisted with the RCAF - transferring later when the USA joined the war. But theres no evidence of either.
Raasch was born in Feb 1924 - whats the earliest he could have signed up in the RCAF? 1942 at 18? By then the USA was in the war anyway How long would his Bombardier training have taken?
Raasch's aircraft crashed - and he was taken POW - 3 July 1944.
Do we have a date for the Norwegian crash?
I've just been looking at Nordic Aviation During WW2 which aims to list all Scandinavian aircraft casualties, but theres nothing which matches
And as I said earlier, no record of a Norwegian in that prison camp
Thinking about it a bit more, the Norwegian theory could work IF the Norwegian pilot was one of those who was trained in Canada, and IF Rassch had crossed the border and enlisted with the RCAF - transferring later when the USA joined the war. But theres no evidence of either.
Raasch was born in Feb 1924 - whats the earliest he could have signed up in the RCAF? 1942 at 18? By then the USA was in the war anyway How long would his Bombardier training have taken?
Raasch's aircraft crashed - and he was taken POW - 3 July 1944.
Do we have a date for the Norwegian crash?
I've just been looking at Nordic Aviation During WW2 which aims to list all Scandinavian aircraft casualties, but theres nothing which matches
Last edited by Milo Minderbinder; 28th Jun 2012 at 21:31.
Thread Starter
Bearing in mind that it was the local police who said that the pilot was Norwegian, this could be leading the story up the garden path !
I can try to establish the age of the witness (Mr Phaup) probably maybe even the year when he witnessed the crash.
Also bear in mind that Raasch told me he was actually Canadian, if that helps.
I can try to establish the age of the witness (Mr Phaup) probably maybe even the year when he witnessed the crash.
Also bear in mind that Raasch told me he was actually Canadian, if that helps.