British Military Planning for Iranian Strike?
I thought SAMXXV was an oddball until I googled the words of Psalm 25 and found "Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted " and "Deliver Israel, O God, from all their troubles!"
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Malkin Tower
Posts: 847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sure SAMXXV really refers to 1 Samuel 25, rather than the psalms.
Interesting reading: it comes across as the Jews (as personified by David) indulging in a bit of a protection racket
See 1 samuel 25 NIVUK - David Nabal and Abigail Now Samuel died - Bible Gateway
Interesting reading: it comes across as the Jews (as personified by David) indulging in a bit of a protection racket
See 1 samuel 25 NIVUK - David Nabal and Abigail Now Samuel died - Bible Gateway
Then its best to stop them before they DO get it.
As the saying goes, get your retaliation in first.
As to your implied suggestion that we should be looking at disarming while hostile parts of the world are building up their nuclear capabilities, that is just plain stupid.
but they are NOT the primary target of Irans's export of Islamic terror. The whole west is their religious, moral, philosophical and military enemy. And they are dedicated to the Islamisation of the west
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Malkin Tower
Posts: 847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Yes, but if we bomb too early, without accurate intelligence and fully debated justification, then we risk unifying the Iranian people behind Ahmadininjad for little real gain"
I'm sure the intelligence is there, otherwise the leaks suggesting the attacks would not have ben placed in the press. As for "fully debated" - that equals "give them time to get prepared"...
"And look where that got us in Iraq..."
Because the campaign was under-resourced, uncertain in its aims and misled. You invade a country, its people are enemies unless proved otherwise - and should be treated as such
"Ever been to Iran?"
No
" Ever even met an Iranian? "
Yes, quite a lot actually. Many of them refugees from the mad ayatollahs hit men.
"That is a gross generalisation and extrapolation from some very flimsy observations. "
Generalistion, yes. Gross, no. Flimsy no. Its based on many hours of conversations with muslims of many shades of belief, both Iranian and other. And while they may disagree on the religious doctrine of the need to Islamise the western world, they DO agree that that is the belief of the Iranian ruling elite
I'm sure the intelligence is there, otherwise the leaks suggesting the attacks would not have ben placed in the press. As for "fully debated" - that equals "give them time to get prepared"...
"And look where that got us in Iraq..."
Because the campaign was under-resourced, uncertain in its aims and misled. You invade a country, its people are enemies unless proved otherwise - and should be treated as such
"Ever been to Iran?"
No
" Ever even met an Iranian? "
Yes, quite a lot actually. Many of them refugees from the mad ayatollahs hit men.
"That is a gross generalisation and extrapolation from some very flimsy observations. "
Generalistion, yes. Gross, no. Flimsy no. Its based on many hours of conversations with muslims of many shades of belief, both Iranian and other. And while they may disagree on the religious doctrine of the need to Islamise the western world, they DO agree that that is the belief of the Iranian ruling elite
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"And they are dedicated to the Islamisation of the west"
We see this comment all the time but it came home to me the other day watching a program on the Elections in Tunisia, the first of the Arab spring countries.
Yes, some in these countires want Sharia law as the basis for all and Islam to be the only basis for how people live BUT it was clearly evident, now that people can speak out in public that a lot of people view the above as going back to the same type of life under the old regime. And it wasn't just women who were saying these things.
So I think in all these countries, you will see a lot of internal strife if and when any democratic elections are held.
My father did many trips to Iran before the Revolution and has always said Iran and it's people are great. I think the majority would prefer much more freedom. It's the hierarchy that is the problem. Just look at the protests a few years ago.
Just my HO.
We see this comment all the time but it came home to me the other day watching a program on the Elections in Tunisia, the first of the Arab spring countries.
Yes, some in these countires want Sharia law as the basis for all and Islam to be the only basis for how people live BUT it was clearly evident, now that people can speak out in public that a lot of people view the above as going back to the same type of life under the old regime. And it wasn't just women who were saying these things.
So I think in all these countries, you will see a lot of internal strife if and when any democratic elections are held.
My father did many trips to Iran before the Revolution and has always said Iran and it's people are great. I think the majority would prefer much more freedom. It's the hierarchy that is the problem. Just look at the protests a few years ago.
Just my HO.
The country just needs the right kind of nudge to send it the way of Libya, Tunisia etc. A military strike by Israel et al would risk uniting the country behind its leadership.
Perhaps Saudi could be persuaded to intervene? I mean, they've got all of that nice new & shiny hardware.
Perhaps Saudi could be persuaded to intervene? I mean, they've got all of that nice new & shiny hardware.
Perhaps Saudi could be persuaded to intervene? I mean, they've got all of that nice new & shiny hardware.
Hajj is on at the moment so things quiet this week.
I'm sure the intelligence is there, otherwise the leaks suggesting the attacks would not have ben placed in the press. As for "fully debated" - that equals "give them time to get prepared"...
Uranium hexflouride centrifuges are not the crucial technology required to creat a deployable nuclear weapon - the real key technology is the advanced mathematics and electronics needed to design and build the thyristors needed to generate critical mass from a small enough amount of Uranium 235. I've not seen any credible claim that Iran has acquired the necessary thyristor technology, nor even got close to it.
Bombing the centrifuges would be about as useful or as logical as bombing aluminium smelting works in Iran, on the grounds that aluminium is a component of a bomb casing.
Leaving aside the technology arguments, I am also not convinced that there is any real prospect of Iran using nuclear weapons unprovoked. Clearly Israel wants us all to believe that this is a possibility, but what real evidence is there for it? Ahmadinijad often makes provocative statements, but these are largely for internal consumption. The reality is that he does not uniquely control the Iranian military, and there are pleny of wise heads in the background who realise that if they were to deploy a nuclear weapon they personally, their families, and most of Iran would be instantly wiped out by a massive unified attack from USA, UK, France, Israel and possibly even Russia.
Ironically, the country that is most likely to launch a first-strike nuclear attack is Israel, because they know that they would not face any retaliation from the West. Given that possibility, it is hardly surprising that there is widespread support in Iran for acquiring a nuclear deterrent themselves.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Perth Western Australia
Age: 57
Posts: 808
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
USA, UK, France, Israel and possibly even Russia
Russia no hope, Frogs sorry barely can stop my self laughing, POMs not likley, Yanks maybe depends what the state Of Israel is after the first strike, I would think they would probally spend to much time talking about it wonder how it would effect the polls, then strike some half baked backwater with next to no importance.
Israel if able to would most likely let rip.
Ironically, the country that is most likely to launch a first-strike nuclear attack is Israel, because they know that they would not face any retaliation from the West
>thyristors needed to generate critical mass from a small enough amount of Uranium 235.<
This seems doubtful. In electronic engineering "thyristors" are commonly used semiconductor switching elements quite closely related to transistors. Might you have meant something else?
This seems doubtful. In electronic engineering "thyristors" are commonly used semiconductor switching elements quite closely related to transistors. Might you have meant something else?
Nixor ut Ledo
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In a Beaut of a State
Posts: 499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Ere. I was permanently banned for a while (yes, I know that's nonsensical but it would appear that a change in the rules allowed this persona back) for using the term "raghead" even though it is, as has been pointed out, in common use within the armed forces and appears in virtually every book that covers middle east unrest.
And now....
...gets a free kick.
I wants me money back
And now....
There are thousands of mad relgious ragheads who can be turned by enormous amounts of cash
I wants me money back
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Leaving aside the technology arguments, I am also not convinced that there is any real prospect of Iran using nuclear weapons unprovoked. Clearly Israel wants us all to believe that this is a possibility, but what real evidence is there for it? Ahmadinijad often makes provocative statements, but these are largely for internal consumption. The reality is that he does not uniquely control the Iranian military, and there are pleny of wise heads in the background who realise that if they were to deploy a nuclear weapon they personally, their families, and most of Iran would be instantly wiped out by a massive unified attack from USA, UK, France, Israel and possibly even Russia."
It is interesting to see him get rebuked every so often after he has come out with one of his statements.
In some ways, I think Iran as a whole would be better off with someone who is slightly less inflammatory.
In regards to the discussion of the use of the term RH, I am as non PC as anyone and use similar words but I can understand why it shouldn't be used on a public forum, especially when we know that posts have been quoted in the media in the past.
.
It is interesting to see him get rebuked every so often after he has come out with one of his statements.
In some ways, I think Iran as a whole would be better off with someone who is slightly less inflammatory.
In regards to the discussion of the use of the term RH, I am as non PC as anyone and use similar words but I can understand why it shouldn't be used on a public forum, especially when we know that posts have been quoted in the media in the past.
.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Malkin Tower
Posts: 847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Uranium hexflouride centrifuges are not the crucial technology required to creat a deployable nuclear weapon - the real key technology is the advanced mathematics and electronics needed to design and build the thyristors needed to generate critical mass from a small enough amount of Uranium 235. I've not seen any credible claim that Iran has acquired the necessary thyristor technology, nor even got close to it.
Bombing the centrifuges would be about as useful or as logical as bombing aluminium smelting works in Iran, on the grounds that aluminium is a component of a bomb casing."
But the key point is that you can find identify and target a suite of centrifuges. They need a large building, power supplies, and a supply of uranium (which can be tracked remotely).
Also, you don't HAVE to have the special thyristors (I've forgotten the proper name) in a nuclear bomb - there are other ways of initiating the explosion timing. And even if you did need them, thy could be smuggled from China or elsewhere.
The centrifuges would be a large detectable target, loss of which would be critical to the program
Bombing the centrifuges would be about as useful or as logical as bombing aluminium smelting works in Iran, on the grounds that aluminium is a component of a bomb casing."
But the key point is that you can find identify and target a suite of centrifuges. They need a large building, power supplies, and a supply of uranium (which can be tracked remotely).
Also, you don't HAVE to have the special thyristors (I've forgotten the proper name) in a nuclear bomb - there are other ways of initiating the explosion timing. And even if you did need them, thy could be smuggled from China or elsewhere.
The centrifuges would be a large detectable target, loss of which would be critical to the program
>special thyristors (I've forgotten the proper name)<
If the reference is to high-speed high-current high-voltage switching, the device is likely to be a krytron or sprytron. Both are related to the thyratron, which is the vacuum-tube precursor of the thyristor.
Krytrons and their derivatives are subject to fairly stringent export control.
If the reference is to high-speed high-current high-voltage switching, the device is likely to be a krytron or sprytron. Both are related to the thyratron, which is the vacuum-tube precursor of the thyristor.
Krytrons and their derivatives are subject to fairly stringent export control.
Perhaps the "V" force doubters & even the 1980's Tornado crews should understand.
I was the nuclear strike controller during 1988-1991 at Laarbruch. I had access 24/7 to ALL the nuclear targets during that period. The current Government could not give a poo as to their previous UK Government's intentions.
I'll now expect a "black ops" strike on myself in the next 24 hrs .
As all of the RAF German based RAF Tornado crews realised, there was no way they could reach the USSR & return without AAR. They accepted that. Each RAF Germany crew was given a target in Poland or Checkoslovakia & they trained for a nuclear bomb drop on most of those friendly cities.
I spent 2 years as an operations officer at Laarbruch & had a lot of night shifts looking at the (two man control nuclear) RAF targets. Each & every target during the 80/90's was a Polish, Chech or otherwise friendly city. The target information for each & every one of the 48 Tornado's gave a specific detail of exactly what kiloton (90, 300 or 900kt nuclear bomb was required to kill "x" thousand (or hundreds of thousands) in the major cities of Eastern Europe. Soley because the RAF could not possibly reach mother Russia. The idea was to create a nuclear vacuum between the USSR & N.Germany (as it was in 1990).
That was the sad case of, even then, a ridiculous BRITISH government, of wasters, just like today, who have never had to hold down a simple job such as a turkey inseminator, bricklayer, etc. etc.
So. For you who wish to identify me, I have made it very, very easy, & made it extremly easy for the USA to do what they want to...
I was the nuclear strike controller during 1988-1991 at Laarbruch. I had access 24/7 to ALL the nuclear targets during that period. The current Government could not give a poo as to their previous UK Government's intentions.
I'll now expect a "black ops" strike on myself in the next 24 hrs .
As all of the RAF German based RAF Tornado crews realised, there was no way they could reach the USSR & return without AAR. They accepted that. Each RAF Germany crew was given a target in Poland or Checkoslovakia & they trained for a nuclear bomb drop on most of those friendly cities.
I spent 2 years as an operations officer at Laarbruch & had a lot of night shifts looking at the (two man control nuclear) RAF targets. Each & every target during the 80/90's was a Polish, Chech or otherwise friendly city. The target information for each & every one of the 48 Tornado's gave a specific detail of exactly what kiloton (90, 300 or 900kt nuclear bomb was required to kill "x" thousand (or hundreds of thousands) in the major cities of Eastern Europe. Soley because the RAF could not possibly reach mother Russia. The idea was to create a nuclear vacuum between the USSR & N.Germany (as it was in 1990).
That was the sad case of, even then, a ridiculous BRITISH government, of wasters, just like today, who have never had to hold down a simple job such as a turkey inseminator, bricklayer, etc. etc.
So. For you who wish to identify me, I have made it very, very easy, & made it extremly easy for the USA to do what they want to...
Yes, I signed the Official Secret's Act in 1981. Yet since then an enormous quantity of Labour & Tory politicians, who have NOT been "positive vetted" - & just accepted by successive governments as being "kosher" have been made privy to the UK's nuclear "secrets".
As these successive governments have made/leaked our nuclear intentions sincethe late 1980's, I feel no need to hide the UK Government's intentions during the 80's of nuking Poland, Checkoslovakia & many other countries to stop a USSR invasion through Europe.
There are many, many ex Tornado crews who know this. Every RAFG Tornado pilot/Nav had to go to Mission Planning & memorise their primary strike mission.
Every Maxeval/Taceval had a final "nuclear strike" launch where the 48 crews would fly an "equivilent mission" low level within N. Germany.
NATO always "won".
But they wouldn't now. Our French EU/NATO "compatriots" have more air/naval/ nuclear firepower than the rest of Europe in total.
The French keep quiet about what they have.
There is an old saying - "I walk quietly but carry a big stick" -Shoe Lin.
Let's see what happens with an extraordinarily weak coalition government composed of public schoolboys who haven't even been abused in their own beds.....
As these successive governments have made/leaked our nuclear intentions sincethe late 1980's, I feel no need to hide the UK Government's intentions during the 80's of nuking Poland, Checkoslovakia & many other countries to stop a USSR invasion through Europe.
There are many, many ex Tornado crews who know this. Every RAFG Tornado pilot/Nav had to go to Mission Planning & memorise their primary strike mission.
Every Maxeval/Taceval had a final "nuclear strike" launch where the 48 crews would fly an "equivilent mission" low level within N. Germany.
NATO always "won".
But they wouldn't now. Our French EU/NATO "compatriots" have more air/naval/ nuclear firepower than the rest of Europe in total.The French keep quiet about what they have.
There is an old saying - "I walk quietly but carry a big stick" -Shoe Lin.
Let's see what happens with an extraordinarily weak coalition government composed of public schoolboys who haven't even been abused in their own beds.....
Last edited by SAMXXV; 7th Nov 2011 at 15:40.