LIBYA (Merged) Use this thread ONLY
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The Yugoslavs and Russians tried to push that propaganda tactic during Allied Force in 1999.
It is very complicated to claim shot downs when you have 10 milions of citizens below your bombers.
the lesson had been learnt on very hard way.
When adequate tape was prepared for publishing,"someone" put a missile throug building killing 16 inocent ,civil,people.
Signature was : "If you still have tapes we have even more efficient bombs!"
Nobody is so stupid to release too much. especially when you have a war over your own territory. And nobody to protect a minimum of your human rights.
And if you ask me for my very own personal opinion , I staed a million times so far.
Serbian communist regime with Milosevic on the top had been working for Americans, very effectivelly, for ages. Russian just gives a small help to communist regime for a few percent tip.
With other words,bussines as ussual.
Now situaton with Gadafi is very simmilar.
At the end of the day, Owners of oil capital and defense industry will have more, militar personel a few leaves more, and Libia will have a significant number of citizens, less.
Unfortunatelly,....
It is a big old beastie - longer than a B2, I recall.
B-2 is 172ft span, 69ft long.
airsound
Swedish Gripen fighters on Libya standby
The armed forces have informed the government that we are able to deploy six to eight aircraft. At the moment they are on a ten day standby, so it wouldn’t take longer than that,” Therese Fagerstedt of the Swedish Armed Forces information department told news agency TT.
Swedish Gripen fighters on Libya standby - The Local
TJ
The armed forces have informed the government that we are able to deploy six to eight aircraft. At the moment they are on a ten day standby, so it wouldn’t take longer than that,” Therese Fagerstedt of the Swedish Armed Forces information department told news agency TT.
Swedish Gripen fighters on Libya standby - The Local
TJ
So seems a few things to confirm just now
Still, we'll be able to read exactly what happened on Wikileaks in a few days time.
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Thanks just seemed a little familiar, would be interesting to have access to the ATR or CVR, still maybe it will turn up.
Thanks dead-pan i gave up with the list. Sadly it may be closer to truth than we may think.
Thanks dead-pan i gave up with the list. Sadly it may be closer to truth than we may think.
SINGAPURCANAC wrote,
Are you into conspiracy theories much? You must have lapped up Venik and his NATO losses propaganda at the time?
The Yugoslav Ministry of Information tried that tactic with claims of taped footage of NATO hidden losses and secret deals. They even doctored the post combat reports of MiG-29 Pilots in order to claim NATO air-to-air losses.
Think about it if they had the video tapes they also had the wreckage to present as evidence? The Serbs even dragged out old audio tapes of a NATO aircraft being shot down and clamed that it was evidence of NATO hiding losses.
One of these was presented as evidence at a NATO briefing conference. Nothing to do with 1999, but actually from the shoot down of a Sea Harrier over Bosnia in 1994. It was a good propaganda attempt, but didn't pass the BS test.
After the conflict Bojan Bugarcic, an advisor to Milosevic, gave an interview on the subject of that propaganda campaign.
"He [Bugarcic] said that, throughout the war, a tremendous, and extremely effective, propaganda campaign had been mounted by the Serbian military. The aim was to keep the populace believing their forces were mounting a spirited defence. "Using the state broadcaster, unofficial 'Russian intelligence' web pages and Army communiqués, the deception had been so successful that many people were fooled.
My 22-year-old translator, Vlada Kopric, was one example. While he vehemently denounced the government-controlled RTS media network as spouting 'pure lies,' his explorations on the Internet had led him to the bogus Russian intelligence site. As a result, up until my November interview with Bugarcic, Vlada had truly believed that the Serbian military had successfully shot down 78 NATO aircraft. "He was devastated when he learned the truth."
That truth in relation to manned aircraft losses is currently on show in the Belgrade Aviation Museum. The wrecks of the F-117A and F-16CG are on show.
You can get a warm rosey glow re-reading the drivel pushed out at the time at the following link.
NATO Losses Revisited (May 4, 2000)
Even PPRuNe got a mention! It was claimed to be a "secret site"
In the February 13 article in The Observer, based on first-hand information posted by RAF pilots and technicians at an Internet discussion group and entitled Pilots Vent Fury at RAF on Web, Antony Barnet writes "Pilots currently serving in the Gulf, and others recently back from Kosovo, are so angry about defective equipment and low morale they are flooding the secret site with complaints aimed at senior officers." The "secret" site is the PPRuNe message board for military pilots. I've spent several days at that site fishing for information until that Sherlock from The Observer scared everyone away with his article.
TJ
When adequate tape was prepared for publishing,"someone" put a missile throug building killing 16 inocent ,civil,people.
Signature was : "If you still have tapes we have even more efficient bombs!"
Signature was : "If you still have tapes we have even more efficient bombs!"
The Yugoslav Ministry of Information tried that tactic with claims of taped footage of NATO hidden losses and secret deals. They even doctored the post combat reports of MiG-29 Pilots in order to claim NATO air-to-air losses.
Think about it if they had the video tapes they also had the wreckage to present as evidence? The Serbs even dragged out old audio tapes of a NATO aircraft being shot down and clamed that it was evidence of NATO hiding losses.
One of these was presented as evidence at a NATO briefing conference. Nothing to do with 1999, but actually from the shoot down of a Sea Harrier over Bosnia in 1994. It was a good propaganda attempt, but didn't pass the BS test.
After the conflict Bojan Bugarcic, an advisor to Milosevic, gave an interview on the subject of that propaganda campaign.
"He [Bugarcic] said that, throughout the war, a tremendous, and extremely effective, propaganda campaign had been mounted by the Serbian military. The aim was to keep the populace believing their forces were mounting a spirited defence. "Using the state broadcaster, unofficial 'Russian intelligence' web pages and Army communiqués, the deception had been so successful that many people were fooled.
My 22-year-old translator, Vlada Kopric, was one example. While he vehemently denounced the government-controlled RTS media network as spouting 'pure lies,' his explorations on the Internet had led him to the bogus Russian intelligence site. As a result, up until my November interview with Bugarcic, Vlada had truly believed that the Serbian military had successfully shot down 78 NATO aircraft. "He was devastated when he learned the truth."
That truth in relation to manned aircraft losses is currently on show in the Belgrade Aviation Museum. The wrecks of the F-117A and F-16CG are on show.
You can get a warm rosey glow re-reading the drivel pushed out at the time at the following link.
NATO Losses Revisited (May 4, 2000)
Even PPRuNe got a mention! It was claimed to be a "secret site"
In the February 13 article in The Observer, based on first-hand information posted by RAF pilots and technicians at an Internet discussion group and entitled Pilots Vent Fury at RAF on Web, Antony Barnet writes "Pilots currently serving in the Gulf, and others recently back from Kosovo, are so angry about defective equipment and low morale they are flooding the secret site with complaints aimed at senior officers." The "secret" site is the PPRuNe message board for military pilots. I've spent several days at that site fishing for information until that Sherlock from The Observer scared everyone away with his article.
TJ
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Aljazeera news reporting indecision and lack of agreement re the way forward. Seems the ground suppression has cooled off and showed heavy bombardment from government assets.*
Guess the original French attack and continuation of yesterday has cooled off.
Guess the original French attack and continuation of yesterday has cooled off.
After viewing a snap of an event of many years ago, when we had a unrecoverable flat spin and ejected in this case at around 6,000 ft it looked similar. It would be interesting to see the position of canopy and seats as in my case it was a rough line away from the main wreckage. But a little closer than we would have liked to the main wreck.
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@ TEEEJ
Originally Posted by truthinmedia.org
According to GRU information, NATO lost... over 1,000 cruise missiles.
I'd like to think NATO lost all of them as they hit their targets!
Are there any credible [public/publishable] stats on in-flight losses over the years, in so many bloody wars?
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XN772
outhouse, forgive the thread drift but here's a pic of your former mount in happier times.
Lightning F2/F2A XN772
Note canopy still in place!
MB
Lightning F2/F2A XN772
Note canopy still in place!
MB
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The Qatari Airforce are very professional and competent well trained and Will do the needfull when asked. well done for stepping up to the plate and safe ops.
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I'm just very grateful that Arab Nations are meeting the challenge.
It can't be easy for them, given the religious dimension and abandonment of the 'Arab brother' mind-set. Perhaps this might also influence, down the line, their own ways of thinking about their own people?
May your [insert deity here] be with you all.
It can't be easy for them, given the religious dimension and abandonment of the 'Arab brother' mind-set. Perhaps this might also influence, down the line, their own ways of thinking about their own people?
May your [insert deity here] be with you all.
Sihnce we're having a light hearted go at tyhe F15 wreckage site
Yes it does look like a flat impact.
What's of surprise to me is the lack of engines in the pictures (ignoring the tail pipe). Also the verticals look a tad shabby for a flat impact alone.
So what were the other aircraft doing in the mission?
Yes it does look like a flat impact.
What's of surprise to me is the lack of engines in the pictures (ignoring the tail pipe). Also the verticals look a tad shabby for a flat impact alone.
So what were the other aircraft doing in the mission?
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lomapaseo
So what were the other aircraft doing in the mission?
No 2 was tasked to attack [insert target here].
No 3 was backup for Leader.
No 4 was backup for [insert target here].
Hope that helps ...