LIBYA (Merged) Use this thread ONLY
A few pointers on the resolution to answer recent posts.
Please remember our FO have been working very hard on the wording, and also the other diplomats know what it means, no matter what they are saying to the 'soundbite' media
The resolution forbids occupation forces. This does not include SAS etc in laser designation or other non-occupation roles.
The NFZ is only point 6. Point 4 allows ANY action short of occupation to protect civilians. This would include killing the guy giving the orders, i.e. Qaddaffi. Currently this is being deemed politically unwise, but it is allowed (arguably) by the resolution.
Effectively the resolution allows almost anything. Whether certain actions are wise or not is another question.
Please remember our FO have been working very hard on the wording, and also the other diplomats know what it means, no matter what they are saying to the 'soundbite' media
The resolution forbids occupation forces. This does not include SAS etc in laser designation or other non-occupation roles.
The NFZ is only point 6. Point 4 allows ANY action short of occupation to protect civilians. This would include killing the guy giving the orders, i.e. Qaddaffi. Currently this is being deemed politically unwise, but it is allowed (arguably) by the resolution.
Effectively the resolution allows almost anything. Whether certain actions are wise or not is another question.
Liked his mention of "RAF Norfolk."
dead_pan,
Apparently the decision was taken to abort the Tornado mission due to the fact that media were broadcasting live from the compound.
BREAKING Sky Sources: Tornado strike on gaddafi compound last night called off because CNN journalist was broadcasting live from the scene
Libya Live: UN Security Council approves no-fly zone - Telegraph
TJ
Apparently the decision was taken to abort the Tornado mission due to the fact that media were broadcasting live from the compound.
BREAKING Sky Sources: Tornado strike on gaddafi compound last night called off because CNN journalist was broadcasting live from the scene
Libya Live: UN Security Council approves no-fly zone - Telegraph
TJ
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TEEEJ
If that turns out to be true, I hope MoD sends them the bill for the fuel.
I believe in freedom of the Press, but they really ought to STFU and keep to the hotel when there's an air campaign going on.
I believe in freedom of the Press, but they really ought to STFU and keep to the hotel when there's an air campaign going on.
draken
The people fighting for Colonal Muhamar are also Libyan citizens ... So how does that fit into this UNSC authorization, I wonder? (His various African mercs aside ...)
Concur.
Wrathmonk
Aye.
That is the same term as "the Arab League" isn't it?
Yep, that is more likely. Well said, that whole post.
With certain assets I used to work with, you don't see a SAS team, nor any sort of SoF team, to do that l-wording stuff on targets. It's been near a decade, and I think that capability has proliferated. No further comment.
Aye, the remit is rather broad, but How Does One Define Civilian, or Libyan Citizen, in this case? The two terms are mixed and matched quite a bit in the UNSCRs. (A more detailed UNSCR critique in my JB inputs ...)
Indeed. As usual, it's a mess. When all of the things stop blowing up, the finger pointing and pissing contests will become World Class for a few weeks.
Darned politicians, could screw up a wet dream.
(I've made a more detailed critique in JB thread regarding this topic, I see this is more of an operationally oriented thread.)
For MPN11:
I agree, in my heart, but the media are part of the environment, whether we like it or not.
"Protecting the innocent and conducting combined operations are what we are designed to do," said Col. Mark J. Desens, commanding officer of 26th MEU. "Our forces are doing both as part of the U.S. commitment to protect Libyan citizens."
So how does that fit into this UNSC authorization, I wonder? (His various African mercs aside ...)
It was a diplomatic success to have Resolution 1973 passed. It was not a mandate for Regime change or to eliminate the Colonel and quite specifically ruled out troops on the ground ... The mixed messages from the Arab League and dissaproval from both India and Russia on the scale of the initial strikes should be worrying our leaders
Wrathmonk
... particularly the Arab League. If they don't like the 'short sharp shock' treatment, and think they could do better, then perhaps we should stand aside and let them get on with it instead.
All talk and no action.
Perhaps it's us in the liberal and Democratic West who have the problem.
The resolution forbids occupation forces. This does not include SAS etc in l-word designation or other non-occupation roles.
No further comment.
The NFZ is only point 6. Point 4 allows ANY action short of occupation to protect civilians. This would include killing the guy giving the orders, i.e. Qaddaffi. Currently this is being deemed politically unwise, but it is allowed (arguably) by the resolution.
Effectively the resolution allows almost anything. Whether certain actions are wise or not is another question.
Darned politicians, could screw up a wet dream.
(I've made a more detailed critique in JB thread regarding this topic, I see this is more of an operationally oriented thread.)
For MPN11:
I agree, in my heart, but the media are part of the environment, whether we like it or not.
Cows Get Bigger
Fear not: at the latest Monastery briefing the good Major General was escorted by AOC 2 Gp and a RN Captain to help him with geography and difficult words
Fear not: at the latest Monastery briefing the good Major General was escorted by AOC 2 Gp and a RN Captain to help him with geography and difficult words
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Re aborted GR4 sortie ... Fox News just reporting that a CNN crew were invited to the compound to view results, which led to the cnx mission. Smart move by The Duck.
I think the Meeja might learn from the consequences ... [please].
Tonight's Fox coverage is basically a picture of a bare tree, viewed from their hotel room, which had some AAA in the background a while back.
I think the Meeja might learn from the consequences ... [please].
Tonight's Fox coverage is basically a picture of a bare tree, viewed from their hotel room, which had some AAA in the background a while back.
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A question from civilian side of aviation: why coalition needed to use B2s from its US homebase? Does it have any unique capabilities necessary for the mission in question or it is rather a demonstration of expensive technologies?
A 25-hrs mission to a country which air defence level is somewhere on a border between 2nd and 3rd world countries, with targets located just on the border of 100% secured Mediterrianian airspace?
A 25-hrs mission to a country which air defence level is somewhere on a border between 2nd and 3rd world countries, with targets located just on the border of 100% secured Mediterrianian airspace?
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A long time ago, Dom Mintoff was very pally with Gadaffi and Libya [after he kicked the British out in 78[?]. That has long since migrated to a curious combination of 'independence' and 'the Chinese are our good friends'.
The last British forces withdrew in 1979.
Malta is a fully integrated EU member, Schenhgen signatory and a modern democracy.
I wish little Englanders like you would stop talking bollocks, but seeing as your personal title is "In the past, because it's nicer", you probably think that the UK is the centre of the world and little ex colonies could not possibly get their act together
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Cargo One
"why coalition needed to use B2s from its US homebase?"
And stand off submarine and Tornado launched cruise missiles. The continued use of such weapons could well raise great concern and put at risk UN support particulary from the Arab World and those in the Security Council who chose to abstain from Resolution 1973.
However, we do now seem to be in the position to operate the NFZ without such attacks.
"why coalition needed to use B2s from its US homebase?"
And stand off submarine and Tornado launched cruise missiles. The continued use of such weapons could well raise great concern and put at risk UN support particulary from the Arab World and those in the Security Council who chose to abstain from Resolution 1973.
However, we do now seem to be in the position to operate the NFZ without such attacks.
"why coalition needed to use B2s from its US homebase?"
And stand off submarine and Tornado launched cruise missiles. The continued use of such weapons could well raise great concern and put at risk UN support particulary from the Arab World and those in the Security Council who chose to abstain from Resolution 1973.
And stand off submarine and Tornado launched cruise missiles. The continued use of such weapons could well raise great concern and put at risk UN support particulary from the Arab World and those in the Security Council who chose to abstain from Resolution 1973.
Of course, you chaps would have been at the front of the queue to conduct SEAD missions, using direct line-of-sight weapons from a non-stealth platform, just to satisfy a small bunch of hand-wringers at home, I suppose? Bear in mind that the early French missions were conducted around Benghazi, where the air defences are presumably under rebel control.
Meanwhile, it looks like the IADS-denial phase is drawing to a close...
MoD stating that Typhoon has flown its first combat missions over Libya - congrats chaps! Shame there's nothing left to shoot though...
Link (Telegraph Live at 21:03)
The statement also says that Tornado GR4s landed at Gioia after Monday's mission; the Telegraph's photo below shows a GR4 departing Marham loaded with a Litening pod, 2 x PW4 and a Brimstone launcher (ie the same fit as used on HERRICK) with 2250l tanks and an ECM pod.
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TBM
This is action to enforce a UN Resolution by protecting the civilian population of a country from its own leaders and armed forces.
Having degraded Libyan AD we don't need the B-2 or much of the other really hi-tech stuff used initially. Doing so just runs the risk that our response is seen by some as being out of proportion and so could risk the continued political consensus needed to get this job done.
This is action to enforce a UN Resolution by protecting the civilian population of a country from its own leaders and armed forces.
Having degraded Libyan AD we don't need the B-2 or much of the other really hi-tech stuff used initially. Doing so just runs the risk that our response is seen by some as being out of proportion and so could risk the continued political consensus needed to get this job done.
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It's not the hand ringers at home but the leaders of India, China and Russia that should concern you. All have the means to propose a new UN Resolution to "clarify" the Mandate. And what then if the West has to veto that